LCA NOT UP TO MARK, SEARCH ON FOR ANOTHER FIGHTER JET - Navy chief

[Côôl PôtâTô]

Guys i think Navy is talking about LSA(Light Stealth Aircraft) which is under discussion.

Light Stealth Aircraft

Wow people in that forum talks only technical facts.No BS..
Hope it's true....

 

[Hindustani78]

Now the whining will commence that only 16 fighters will be inducted

But the fact on ground doesnt change that Tejas is operational and defending Indian skies .

Hard work of HAL, DRDO and ADA has made each and every single patriot Indian citizens proud of thier country.

 

[Silicon0000]

Welcome to navalized Rafael & F35 in India.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

The navy was a bit crazy even wanting LCA as a naval fighter, BUT DRDO should continue the program as a tech demo for N-AMCA. They should still continue with arrestor hook trials of NLCA.

 

[spectribution]

Every single Naval Fighter in Modern History has 2 engines. Choice is obvious Naval Rafale or more Mig 29k. I put money on the latter.

 

[Dungeness]

But the fact on ground doesnt change that Tejas is operational and defending Indian skies .

Hard work of HAL, DRDO and ADA has made each and every single patriot Indian citizens proud of thier country.

A reflection article for those who go beyond the regular "national pride" and have the capability of critical thinking.



Why the Indian Navy Is Unhappy With Its Carrier-Based Light Combat Aircraft Project
India’s chief of naval staff reiterates reservations about the Tejas’ suitability for carrier operations.

By Abhijit Singh
December 03, 2016


Ahead of Navy Day celebrations on December 4, Admiral Sunil Lanba, India’s chief of naval staff (CNS), caused a minor flutter in the media by suggesting that the Navy was doing a rethink on the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) project, India’s premier light fighter jet program. At a press conference, Lanba remarked that the navy was looking for a temporary replacement jet from a source abroad for carrier-operations as the LCA (Navy) wasn’t “yet up to the mark.” Even though the navy chief did not go as far as to suggest the project was being scrapped, he was categorical about the navy’s dissatisfaction with the naval variants under production.

Lanba’s admission is likely to have placed many officials in the Ministry of Defense (MoD), as well as the Defense Research and Development Organization, in a spot of bother. After a slow start in the early 1980s, the LCA struggled for over three decades before showing progress in the past few years. Having obtained operational clearance in 2013, the aircraft has now been officially integrated into the Indian Air Force. Oddly, the naval chief’s statement came only a day after the ministry cleared an order for 83 LCA Mk 1As from the government-owned defense manufacture Hindustan Aeronautical Limited (HAL) for the IAF.

This isn’t, of course, the first time that a naval chief has publicly expressed reservations about the LCA program. In 2012, Admiral Nirmal Verma, then CNS, in an interaction with the media chided the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) for frequent cost and time overruns in the development of the naval version of the aircraft. The Navy, he suggested, was beginning to lose faith in the project.

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Now, as then, the problem with the LCA remains the same: its inability to take off with its full weapon load from a carrier top. Naval sources point out that since 2013, the LCA has consistently failed the test of flight from a 200-meter deck with full weapons load. In a series of trial sorties at a Shore Based Test Facility (SBTF) in May this year, ADA officials claimed that the aircraft had made the cut by successfully ascending from a short deck with two R-73 close combat missiles. But naval managers clearly weren’t impressed.

The Navy’s real problem is that it believes that the LCA is a largely air force-centric program that isn’t essentially geared to meet aircraft carrier-operations. At many points during its evolution, naval managers are said to have emphasized the need for aircraft systems to be reconfigured to meet the requirements of carrier take-off and landing, but the ADA never reportedly made a serious attempt to undertake the necessary modifications.

Naval aeronautical engineers believe that the LCA’s naval variant is slightly but “significantly” different from its air force version, not least on account of a major modification needed in the aircraft’s landing gear that enables arrested landings on a carrier deck. Unfortunately for the Indian Navy, the ADA hasn’t ever fully committed itself to developing a modified undercarriage. As a consequence, the suspicion of an institutional indifference toward the Navy’s specific needs of carrier operations has only grown stronger.

Another concern has been the lack of a reliable air-to-air refueling system. Despite renewed efforts, the complex integration of the aerial refueling probe on to the Tejas fighter hasn’t been properly accomplished. The absence of reliable “hot-refueling” implies a restriction in aircraft mission ranges, which maritime managers have been unwilling to accept.

Why, however, must the Indian Navy be fussy about an aircraft that is only meant to supplement the Mig-29K? Aircraft carrier experts say middle and light category aircraft have different peacetime roles profiles. Given India’s geostrategic interests in the Indian Ocean region, it is important for the Navy to project both hard and soft naval power. High-end combat aircraft like the Mig-29K are meant to exert hard military influence by signaling coercive intent. Equally important, however, is the need for a carrier-borne aircraft to showcase the Indian Navy’s prowess as reliable security agent in the littorals. Indigenous medium-capability assets help in creating a circle of trust, owing to their utility in joint multinational operations. With a leading role in regional forums such as the Indian Ocean Naval Symposium (IONS) and Milan, the Indian Navy has come to be known as a friendly maritime agency. Its low-end light combat aircraft aids in the cultivation of a benevolent image. In addition, the aircraft’s export to friendly countries would help in the forging of strong working-level partnerships.

Misgivings about the LCA program, however, go beyond the perceived disregard for specific functionality. In an article in July this year, Admiral Arun Prakash (retd.), a former chief of naval staff, outlined three reasons why the military leadership was apprehensive about the project. Firstly, Prakash pointed out that Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the huge public sector firm manufacturing the LCA, is a monolithic, indolent giant with a work ethos that “struck dread in the hearts of air-warriors.” The company’s unionized employees were a cause for low productivity and poor production engineering standards that created many maintenance and inter-changeability problems on aircraft. Secondly, there was a high failure rate of HAL manufactured components and systems that didn’t inspire confidence among military aviation managers. And lastly, Prakash pointed to the suboptimal production support, which often left “HAL customers high and dry.”

Scrapping the LCA (Navy) program, however, will not be without consequences. For one, the Indian Navy will need to start afresh in the search for a foreign source for a new light combat aircraft. Given the stringent provisions of the Defense Procurement Procedures (DPP), especially the need for a domestic manufacturer, this implies a substantial delay in the project. Besides, having invested considerable funds in the LCA program since 2009, the Indian Navy will need to explain losses, as well as the wisdom of investing in a new project. Not only will it push back delivery of the platforms by a few years, the work-load on the Mig-29K will dramatically increase with involvement in both low-end and high-end missions.


http://thediplomat.com/2016/12/has-...-carrier-based-light-combat-aircraft-project/

 

[Hindustani78]

A reflection article for those who go beyond the regular "national pride" and have the capability of critical thinking.

/

Tejas and LCA are the achievements of DRDO, HAL and ADA .

More upgraded version of LCA Navy we will see soon .

 

[Leo~Calicratis]

rather, I think, it'd b crashed by collidig a vulture in the mid-sky b4 reaching me

Seems like you do not believe Tejas is lethal until it drops a bomb on you

 

[Hindustani78]

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...ins-hopes-on-lca-mark-11-use-by-navy-4519716/
By: PTI | Bengaluru | Published:February 11, 2017 10:14 pm

Once the product was available, the user would take it." So I think we have to deal with CNS's statement towards the Mark I as rejected...," he said.

With the Navy ruling out deploying indigenously built Light Combat Aircraft Tejas on its aircraft carriers, Aeronautical Development Agency on Saturday said it was restricted only to Mark I which was a technology demonstrator and pinned hopes on Mark II for use by the Navy.

ADA Director C D Balaji said he believed that the December 3 statement by Navy Chief that the aircraft was overweight and therefore would not be useful for the services was restricted to LCA Navy Mark I. “…We knew (it) was a heavier platform upfront and it was basically a technology demonstrator and that is how it is intended,” he said.

ADA is the nodal agency for the design and development of the LCA. Stating that in 2009 it was recognised by the Cabinet Committee that it would be a technology demonstrator, he said “…I basically presume that there is an immediate need for Navy and therefore they have basically sent out an RFI (Request for Information) for 57 aircraft based on the situation.”

In December Navy Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba had said the “present LCA does not meet the carrier capability required by the Navy”, following which the Navy has launched an RFA to procure 57 multi-role combat aircraft for its carrier. Pointing out that the number of testings that are going on from last year or so, Balaji said “….we will convert this project into a product and that will happen once we do an arrested recovery (by mid of this year), the moment we do that we will carry the learning into Mark II which has already been designed.”

Once the product was available, the user would take it.” So I think we have to deal with CNS’s statement towards the Mark I as rejected…,” he said. Balaji was speaking to reporters at the curtain raiser of 11th biennial Aero India International Seminar to be held from Feb 12 to 14, here, as a prelude to the eleventh edition of the Aero India Aerospace Exposition from February 14 to 18.

Defence Research and Development Organisation Chairman S Christopher said “we have levels of R&D development, particularly when we are doing technology development. “Whatever has been spoken is for Mark I, the Mark II programme still exists. As far as the government of India is concerned Indigenous efforts are supported fully,” he said.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

It is a good project to learn how to do stuff...AMCA must start as a naval project and proceed for airforce. LCA is too small and short legged. The Navy needs a medium sized aircraft with a decent range and payload capacity to perform SEAD and DPS missions and at the same time to take care of itself. LCA is good for just fleet defence. To give air cover to an expeditionary force I dont think LCA can even come near,

 

[Hindustani78]

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/596116/lca-naval-variant-being-unfairly.html

NITI Aayog member and former Director-General of DRDO V K Saraswat defended the LCA-Naval variant and said that those who do not have confidence in the aircraft are making lame excuses.

The Navy version of the indigenously-built Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) was rejected by the Indian Navy on the grounds that it was ‘not up to the mark’. Saraswat said that the problems they pointed out could be easily rectified. He was speaking at an international seminar organised by the DRDO and Aeronautical Society of India (AeSI) as a prelude to Aero India 2017.

Saraswat said the media and others were bad-mouthing the aircraft developed by DRDO, saying that it did not meet the Navy’s requirements without having all details. In December, the Navy chief had said that the LCA-Navy was overweight and would not suit their aircraft-carrier operations.

On the topic of the seminar ‘Aerospace: Technology Collaboration and Self Reliance’, Saraswat said that investment in research & development (R&D), involvement of private industry and developing aerospace skill sets were necessary for India to become self-reliant.

“Aero India has been happening for several years now. While we do get exposed to the international defence industry, we need to ask how many business deals we are getting out of it. I don’t think Aero India is contributing significantly to making us self-reliant,” Saraswat said. The scientist further said that India should capitalise on the opportunities presented by the growing demand for commercial aircraft within the country.

S Christopher, chairman, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) stressed on the importance of collaboration. “DRDO has several programmes for which we are collaborating with companies and institutions. Such combined efforts can help our country become self-reliant in defence and aerospace,” he said. Christopher added that without collaboration, it would not have been possible to build India’s first indigenously developed Airborne Early Warning and Control (AEW&C) system, which is to be inducted into the Indian Air Force at Aero India 2017.

 

[PakEye]

First KAVERI
Now
Navel LCA
Results after 3 dacades wow

 

[Hindustani78]

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/596292/indian-navy-spurns-homemade-warplane.html

India's navy is in the hunt for a new foreign fighter jet after rejecting an indigenously made aircraft as too heavy, the latest sign of the struggle to get Asian militaries to buy locally to grow their defence industries.

The navy last month invited manufacturers to pitch for 57 planes for its aircraft carriers, a multi-billion dollar order the government had hoped would go to the state-run producers of India's Tejas, a combat aircraft 33 years in the making.

India, South Korea, Taiwan and other Asian buyers are expected to intensify efforts this year to develop indigenous warplanes, military officials said, due to anxieties that the United States may be less engaged in the region under President Donald Trump.

But their hopes of manufacturing state-of-the-art warplanes could still be decades away as countries need more time to master the technology, experts said.

"It's been long on ambition short on success," Richard A. Bitzinger, senior fellow at Singapore's S. Rajaratnam School of International Studies, said of the drive.

"These things are being done because of techno-nationalism. They are done because these countries perceive of themselves as rising powers."

As part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make-in-India" campaign, scientists will showcase the Tejas warplane at an air show opening in Bengaluru on Tuesday. But the jet remains a work in progress, with only three in service with the air force.

South Korea, supported by Indonesia, has multi-billion dollar plans to develop a twin-engined KF-X fighter jet, while Taiwan said this month it plans to build 66 jet trainer aircraft that could eventually help it manufacture a combat plane.

Chang Yeoung-keun, an adviser on the KF-X fighter jet project and a professor at Korea Aerospace University, said full development of the plane and its technologies will take decades.

"South Korea needs to develop core technologies of the jets, not just shells," he said. "I am sceptical. South Korea may be able to develop core technology in 30 to 40 years, but they have to develop them in 10 years, with current fighter jets ageing."

India's struggle

Cleared by the government in 1983, the Indian plane was meant to be the backbone of the air force due for induction in 1994.

Instead, it suffered years of delay with scientists trying to build the world's most modern light combat aircraft from scratch, including the engine.

In December, the navy chief, Admiral Sunil Lanba, said the sea version of the plane was "not up to the mark" and it could not take off from an aircraft carrier once weapons were loaded.

A source in the navy said that the plane for years has failed flight tests when taking off from a 200-metre carrier deck with weapons on board. That prompted the navy to issue a request last month for information for a foreign fighter to fill the gap, the first stage in a long procurement process.

Boeing Co has pitched its F-A/18 Hornet, that the U.S. navy flies from its carriers, to the Indian defence ministry, including an offer to build it locally.

Sweden's Saab AB said on Friday it will offer the naval version of its Gripen fighter to the Indian navy.

India's top defence scientists said they were disappointed by the navy's decision and that fighter aircraft development was a challenge everywhere, including with the U.S. Joint Strike Fighter, the F-35.

"Look at the F-35, with all the might of the multinational effort, is still evolving," said a source in the aeronautical development agency which is spearheading the LCA effort.

 

[Hindustani78]

http://zeenews.india.com/india/drdo-to-develop-naval-light-combat-aircraft-mark-2_1977527.html
At a press conference here, Director of the Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) C.D. Balaji said they were aware of the shortcomings of the naval version of the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), adding that a new version was being worked upon.

The ADA is the nodal agency for the design and development of LCA.

"The overweight aircraft is the Mark 1. We will work on Mark 2 aircraft, which will have enhanced thrust engine. It will meet the requirements of the take-off," Balaji added.

He said the lessons on the arrestor gear and a catapult launch that would be emphasised upon for the next version, were learned.

"We are re-configuring this aircraft, the preliminary design is complete, the detailed design will take 18-20 months. By the end of 2020, the revised configuration should fly," he said.

According to sources, the Navy wanted a twin-engine aircraft, but they were told that developing it would take longer.

Naval Chief Admiral Sunil Lanba had said in December 2016, that the LCA was "not up to the mark yet", due to which they were searching for another fighter aircraft for carrier operations within the next five years.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on Tuesday said the Indian Navy would continue to fund development of the naval variant of Tejas.


First Published: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 - 18:07

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Every single Naval Fighter in Modern History has 2 engines. Choice is obvious Naval Rafale or more Mig 29k. I put money on the latter.

The Harrier had only one engine, and the F-35C second engine is where?
Skyhawks and Crusaders were also single engine.