Last Air Battle On This Day

[SQ8]

Actually its hilarious that how far people would go to prove their point.

Just adding that it is the gun camera footage of a mig being shot down doesnt prove any point.
There is as much possibility of it being real as it being doctored.

Doesnt stand as very credible evidence.

You are kidding right??
That can apply to you too

 

[John Doe]

You are kidding right??
That can apply to you too

Well, knowing the track record of the person who posted that photo, the 1st thought that came to mind was 'where is the citation for this photo'?

Is it really an IAF Mig 21 ? And to be relevant to this thread, is it from the last day of the war? You can see that many of the posts by the person who started this thread have nothing to do with the topic, viz,Dec 17th, 1971

Perhaps DG thought the same, hence his comments......

 

[John Doe]

And i have yet to see an image of a PAF F-104 going down in flames as this Creme De La Creme.

Here you go:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

 

[DeathGod]

You are kidding right??
That can apply to you too

Absolutely it can apply to me... if and only if I am trying to prove my point.

In this case , I donot have a point. I am simply a humble being asking for credible evidence from credible sources( Is it too much to ask?).

The post didnt provide any credible evidence to me as there were no citations at all.

Hope you understand the reason for my laughter or maybe I need to explain it to you again...

 

[SQ8]

Well.. credible sources can differ..
However.. how likely is it. .that ACIG carries the gun camera film.
Therefore.. the best way to debunk a claim is to look for a similar image.
Id start with Israel..
You however.. stared attacking the credibility without giving anything to counter it.
Agree to disagree.. but dont ridicule the messenger.

 

[John Doe]

Well.. credible sources can differ..
However.. how likely is it. .that ACIG carries the gun camera film.
Therefore.. the best way to debunk a claim is to look for a similar image.
Id start with Israel..
You however.. stared attacking the credibility without giving anything to counter it.
Agree to disagree.. but dont ridicule the messenger.

The common practice is for the person posting an article or image to attribute the source. It should not, and cannot be the responsibility of the readers to ensure that the photo is not being misrepresented. Surely you would agree with that?

Furthermore in this case, it's hard to ignore the credibility (lack thereof) of the person posting this mystery photo.

BTW, the Israeli possibility is a very good one! Never thought of that, for some reason I kept thinking of the Vietnam air battles

PS: I did not get the ACIG reference, is this where I can find this photo?

 

[SQ8]

nope..
but if you can.. and it differs from the claim.. that would debunk it..
till then..agree to disagree..

 

[Windjammer]

It seems the reflection is proving too gruesome for some Indians to comprehend. Instead of thriving in their usual mode of denial, they need to utilize something called the grey matter.
Since they are desperate to salvage some pride by constantly digressing from the facts as they are unable to absorb the bitter truth. Thus they could merely find some comfort by questioning the credibility of the gun camera images that i posted. Before divulging in their habitual method of denial, one particular character needs to take stock of him self, since in desperation he was even discrediting the world re known aviation artist S M A Hussaini.
Well, nit picks, let me ask you, are you denying the Sabre kills the Mig scenario.? With all the proof against yous, i guess you have no choice.
AFAIK, the GOI, has neither discredited this claim, hence, is there any logic in me posting other than the genuine article. ????
However, if you are still in denial, than, nothing will give me more pleasure than beating you with your own stick. !!!

 

[Windjammer]

Here you go:

ImageShack® - Online Photo and Video Hosting

Well desperate Doe, does this image represents any citation.? Nope. !
Is it a gun camera photo. ? Certainly not.
Does it really prove, it's an F-104.????
For argument sake, even if it's an F-104, is it THE
F-104, the cause of your chest thumping. ???
And above all, does it bare desert como of the RJAF. ?????
I could post 101 images of IAF wreckages, but then again, i am not the one desperate to salvage some pride.

 

[DeathGod]

but then again, i am not the one desperate to salvage some pride.

Nobody is trying to salvage any pride for none was lost. Will be great if you can get that out of head. Pride is in fighting for one's country and being true to your job. One can loose life by being shot down or be killed from an enemy's bullet but there is no loss of pride , for a soldier stood for what he beleived it. An army can loose the war ( as was the case with PAF/PA) and still have the pride because they did what was asked of them (which is to stand up and be counted)

You digress from the topic too much to have any sort of credibility. Dont care of your status or your past deeds but as far as this thread goes , everytime you claim something please provide a credible source else wont be accepted by Indian members atleast.

Coming back to topic: Will be great if you post the source for those photographs.

 

[John Doe]

@ the Boy Genius of this forum:

You asked this earlier:
Originally Posted by Windjammer
And i have yet to see an image of a PAF F-104 going down in flames as this Creme De La Creme.


And I showed you a photo. Now where did I say its a photo from a HUD? Have you even asked for a photo from a HUD? No!

Do you doubt that it is a F-104? Do you even doubt that it is a PAF jet? If yes, you are in need of some education on PAF aircraft and how to identify them

I am sorry that I did not add the citation for the photo, you are absolutely right here! So here it is:
The Western Sector

BTW, this is the F-104 of the 'twice unlucky' Sqn Ldr Amjad Hussain S.J. who was brought down in both wars! Again, the only reason I posted this photo is to help you in your quest for photos of F-104's shot down.

Now your turn to educate us with some credible attribution to your photos. I am not saying that this photo is fake, just saying that it needs some source, which makes it clear that this is a photo of an IAF Mig 21 and that this is from the very shootdown that happened on Dec 17th.(As you claim)

I don't know why I am bothering saying this to you, I have made my opinion about your intellect pretty clear to all in an earlier post. But try to read AND understand what DeathGod, Santro and I have been writing about, before you reply with non relevant comments. If possible , ask Santro before you reply what the last 5-6 posts were about, since he gets it.

 

[Windjammer]

Nobody is trying to salvage any pride for none was lost. Will be great if you can get that out of head. Pride is in fighting for one's country and being true to your job. One can loose life by being shot down or be killed from an enemy's bullet but there is no loss of pride , for a soldier stood for what he beleived it. An army can loose the war ( as was the case with PAF/PA) and still have the pride because they did what was asked of them (which is to stand up and be counted)

After your earlier mischief, the decent banter can only be termed as a waste of space, for, no one is critical of the respective field soldier but it's the individual arm chair Generals who are adamant to pick and chose for their likings.

You digress from the topic too much to have any sort of credibility. Dont care of your status or your past deeds but as far as this thread goes , everytime you claim something please provide a credible source else wont be accepted by Indian members atleast.

More shots in the dark, it's you and your country fellows who seem to have no appetite to remain focus on the subject hence resort to mere nit picking.

Coming back to topic: Will be great if you post the source for those photographs.

Later. !!!

 

[Windjammer]

@ the Boy Genius of this forum:

You asked this earlier:
Originally Posted by Windjammer
And i have yet to see an image of a PAF F-104 going down in flames as this Creme De La Creme.


And I showed you a photo. Now where did I say its a photo from a HUD? Have you even asked for a photo from a HUD? No!

Well, old wise man, Read again and conclude for your self, whether it's indeed an image of an F-104, GOING DOWN IN FLAMES. (You know, like the one I posted of the MIG-21).???

Do you doubt that it is a F-104? Do you even doubt that it is a PAF jet? If yes, you are in need of some education on PAF aircraft and how to identify them

Wreckage of a PAF aircraft. ? Yes.
Other than that there is no citation to indicate what, where and how.
Except to say, you have been busy on Google search.

Now your turn to educate us with some credible attribution to your photos. I am not saying that this photo is fake, just saying that it needs some source, which makes it clear that this is a photo of an IAF Mig 21 and that this is from the very shootdown that happened on Dec 17th.(As you claim)

Albeit, it's difficult to groom some sense into some one in denial, however i will try and rest your soul.

I don't know why I am bothering saying this to you, I have made my opinion about your intellect pretty clear to all in an earlier post.

Firstly you need to alter your habitual cheap banter, since your opinion is pretty much for self consumption and irrelevant to others. You often represent an amateur turned giddy by repeated blows to the upper crust.

But try to read AND understand what DeathGod, Santro and I have been writing about, before you reply with non relevant comments. If possible , ask Santro before you reply what the last 5-6 posts were about, since he gets it.

Before underscoring, you should heed your own advise and see if you can understand to what I said in Post#122 for example.
Albeit, spare time is not a commodity that I enjoy these days, However, let me try and put your bewildered soul to rest.
I am priveledged to have contacts within the PAF, last time I was back home, I paid several visits to the Air Directorate's office of Inter Services Public Relations (ISPR). I was indeed fortunate to obtain several copies of pictures contained in their catalog of photo albums. Such material is usually meant for media release or visitor viewing.
The original photos were accompanied by detailed citation, however the reproduction are merely copies of the images. I could have posted the following sources for the same but the clarity wasn't of the same quality.

The same incident depicted by Hussaini.

 

[John Doe]

@DeathGod:
Did you understand anything this brick just wrote to you?????

@Santro: I believe the 'debunking' which you suggested was performed in the above post!

Now @ WINDJAMMER:
You are The True Gift of The Almighty to this forum and Especially to ME:

Let me make this clear,
YOU HAVE LIED ABOUT THE PHOTO!!!!!

So since you don't have any citation, you picked up some photo from my Uncle Google and proclaim that this is from the Dec 17th shootdown? It's politically incorrect to call you what I really want to.

You are clearly disturbed in your head and can stoop to any level to lie and later cover up your lies. Please do this forum the favor of NEVER posting lies and frauds again!!

And how often will you name drop? First it was some PAF squadron, now its ISPR. Would ISPR even let someone in your condition through the compound gates? What next, you are a chuddy buddy with Air Chief Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman?

And how does posting a painting prove that the photo is what you claim? Jeez.......

 

[John Doe]

WAIT A MINUTE:
This is not even the same photo that you posted earlier!!! The photo for which we challenged you to prove your claims. Have you completely lost it? Did you not see what your previous post was?

Are you so busy coming up with lies about photos and how you are on first name basis with the entire PAF, that you forgot to check what your own posted photo was in #175?