Lal Masjid commission report comes out truth told

[Zarvan]

dont know about you once i was going with my sister one of them came to me with a bamboo stick yelling this to my sister "TUM PARDA KIUN NAHI KERTI HO PARDA KERO" it was terrible. who the **** gave them any right to tell me or my sister what to do she was wearing kurta shalwar and had a duppata like traditional women, do so no u are a liar and a big one at that.I cant thank MUSH enough for that operation.

that right is given by Islam and if government will not implement them than people will and those who support this operation have not only the blood off innocent people killed by army in thus masjid but also the deaths which we are facing till this date

Its like a twilight zone here in PDF. I'll break down why Lal Mosque was an incredibly bad idea.

- It was a mosque. No matter how many people were scared from Mullahs. No matter how much embarrassment it caused Pakistan internationally, it was still a mosque. For common public launching an attack on the mosque by Army sent a very wrong message. Look at the background, Musharraf was considered to be anti-Islam (he made it worse by claiming he wanted Ataturk like system) and Pakistan just had taken a highly unpopular U-turn on Taliban under Musharraf. Attack on mosque gave the extremist elements perfect marketing tool that PA was anti-Islam. A tool which they used quite successfully at masses. Worse media was covering the whole ordeal second by second.

- PA should be aware of how powerful a message will be sent by attacking the mosque. PA has been using the visuals of Indian aggression at that Dargah in Kashmir for a decade. What were the visuals in Lal mosque? Fauji boots in mosque? Half burnt pages of Quran? You think a nation which can go hysterical on Quran burning issue in west would take it sitting down?

- Once the Mullah ran out (the older brother) in Burqah, Musharraf should have acted sanely and used him for leverage. Instead that Mullah was paraded in PTV. I watched the interview of that Mullah, he was still in Burqa (had to remove the face part when interview started). The whole show was to humiliate him, his brother (Ghazi something) watched the whole show and obviously thought it better to keep inside till the end. This mistake ensured that Ghazi will die in the mosque and will become a martyr.

- Frankly speaking, Musharraf had hundred of ways to sort out the Lal mosque issue. Stop the electricity, water and gas, use tear gas to force people to come out (or even bribe them, it would've been much easier).

- When PA had taken a U-Turn on Taliban which were marketed as great Mujahids for two decades and was facing public anger it was the worst stunt Musharraf could have pulled. It gave much needed authenticity to the extremist groups that Musharraf was Anti-Islam and those groups were right in fighting PA.

- Sanity suggests that even if it was a temple and some Hindus had raised the flag of India over it. Don't lose your cool and don't make them martyrs for a cause. Operation will be finished in an hour but martyrs and visuals will live forever. It was an extremely bad idea to attack Lal mosque and it only fragmented the Pakistani society. That is why Dictators are ill equipped to deal with political issues and should remain in barracks ANY politician could have handled it better.

- IF Musharraf had gone that far and damage was done it would have been best to take benefit of fear and relocate major Madrassah out of Islamabad (remove the root cause). Musharraf didn't touch Lal mosque afterwards which gives strength to the notion that he perhaps wanted to project a strong man image and was not really too worried about Lal Mosque.

I agree with you here 90% other 10 % I have my own opinion @nuclearpak and others should read these points

 

[Marwat Khan Lodhi]

Is it what you call truth? Duh!

Zealots who clearly violated laws are being judicially esteemed! Who's going to accolade soldiers who embraced Shahadat by the way, sire head of the commission?

Lt coln haroon islam was shot by ISI...from a friendly fire...usko operation par aitraz ta.

 

[Zarvan]

Lt coln haroon islam was shot by ISI...from a friendly fire...usko operation par aitraz ta.

he accidently got hit by thhe soldier who was coming behind him that soldier was trying to target the all masjid guy but bullet hit harpoon Ul islam

 

[Sedqal]

that right is given by Islam and if government will not implement them than people will and those who support this operation have not only the blood off innocent people killed by army in thus masjid but also the deaths which we are facing till this date


I agree with you here 90% other 10 % I have my own opinion @nuclearpak and others should read these points

Which 10% would that be? Please share your opinion.

 

[Zarvan]

Which 10% would that be? Please share your opinion.

first. government should have rebuild those mosques than ended selling of **** and crackdown on prostituion dens and the most major problem is government doesn't implement shariah that is the major problem but accepentance of these demands should haveen accepted but still last time the. conclusion had reached but musharraf ruined it and that led to disaster which has results in massive wave of attacks on Pakistan acceptance of demands have ended this because ghazi was more smarter than his elder brother he would have ended it but that burqa thing on TV destroyed every thing because ghazi was always known for his bravery and elder brother for being coward

 

[Sedqal]

first. government should have rebuild those mosques than ended selling of **** and crackdown on prostituion dens and the most major problem is government doesn't implement shariah that is the major problem but accepentance of these demands should haveen accepted but still last time the. conclusion had reached but musharraf ruined it and that led to disaster which has results in massive wave of attacks on Pakistan

I really think that Lal mosque brothers went out of line there. There is no justification for occupying the children library (as a child I have been there) absolutely none. In other cases it was much better if they had decided to take a rally somewhere in Islamabad or since cameras were following them they should have gone to the police station and submitted a request for removal of said businesses (then pressurized Govt through media campaign). No one can be allowed to create a state within a state no matter how holy the cause.

Shariah is tricky business, Pakistani constitution as a document is an excellent example of a modern Islamic system. If today Zaradri stands up and says Shariah is implemented, what changes will you see? Other then interest (banks) most clauses of Shariah are already in constitution.

 

[Zarvan]

I really think that Lal mosque brothers went out of line there. There is no justification for occupying the children library (as a child I have been there) absolutely none. In other cases it was much better if they had decided to take a rally somewhere in Islamabad or since cameras were following them they should have gone to the police station and submitted a request for removal of said businesses (then pressurized Govt through media campaign). No one can be allowed to create a state within a state no matter how holy the cause.

Shariah is tricky business, Pakistani constitution as a document is an excellent example of a modern Islamic system. If today Zaradri stands up and says Shariah is implemented, what changes will you see? Other then interest (banks) most clauses of Shariah are already in constitution.

the didn't sir this ispakistan no one listens peacefully and they contacted police but they didn't listen because government ministers were backing those centres sir and in Islam when governments support evil than we have to stop them

 

[Jango]

Lt coln haroon islam was shot by ISI...from a friendly fire...usko operation par aitraz ta.

Sorry but I have go to say this:

HAHAHAHA

Yar kuch to sharam kar, aik shaheed ka aisay mazak ura raha hai.

You need a class with @Icarus and get a lesson.

 

[Jango]

Its like a twilight zone here in PDF. I'll break down why Lal Mosque was an incredibly bad idea.

- It was a mosque. No matter how many people were scared from Mullahs. No matter how much embarrassment it caused Pakistan internationally, it was still a mosque. For common public launching an attack on the mosque by Army sent a very wrong message. Look at the background, Musharraf was considered to be anti-Islam (he made it worse by claiming he wanted Ataturk like system) and Pakistan just had taken a highly unpopular U-turn on Taliban under Musharraf. Attack on mosque gave the extremist elements perfect marketing tool that PA was anti-Islam. A tool which they used quite successfully at masses. Worse media was covering the whole ordeal second by second.

I agree with you on this case of media/public perception. More awareness should have been sought by the state...media should have played it's role.

- Once the Mullah ran out (the older brother) in Burqah, Musharraf should have acted sanely and used him for leverage. Instead that Mullah was paraded in PTV. I watched the interview of that Mullah, he was still in Burqa (had to remove the face part when interview started). The whole show was to humiliate him, his brother (Ghazi something) watched the whole show and obviously thought it better to keep inside till the end. This mistake ensured that Ghazi will die in the mosque and will become a martyr.

Also agree

- Frankly speaking, Musharraf had hundred of ways to sort out the Lal mosque issue. Stop the electricity, water and gas, use tear gas to force people to come out (or even bribe them, it would've been much easier).

They were given ample opportunity to come out of the mosque, and all the people except the hardcore militants came out. Thousands of girl came out, I spent all night watching the TV and all the time their were hordes of women came out of the mosque, even alot of men came out. In the end all the hardcore and foreign militants were left, and they had huge caches of ammo and weapons and were up for a fight. They had erected bunkers and were wearing gas masks.

SHould I hotlink pictures of those bunkers? I know the guy who was flying the cobra sorties over the mosque and he was telling me alot of tales.

- When PA had taken a U-Turn on Taliban which were marketed as great Mujahids for two decades and was facing public anger it was the worst stunt Musharraf could have pulled. It gave much needed authenticity to the extremist groups that Musharraf was Anti-Islam and those groups were right in fighting PA.

Again, public perception. And Pakistan didn't turn against the Afghan Taliban, it was the TTP which fought for a whole new cause. Afghan and Pakistani Taliban operate under completely different ideologies which overlap only on some points.

- Sanity suggests that even if it was a temple and some Hindus had raised the flag of India over it. Don't lose your cool and don't make them martyrs for a cause. Operation will be finished in an hour but martyrs and visuals will live forever. It was an extremely bad idea to attack Lal mosque and it only fragmented the Pakistani society. That is why Dictators are ill equipped to deal with political issues and should remain in barracks ANY politician could have handled it better.

I somehow agree with this.

- IF Musharraf had gone that far and damage was done it would have been best to take benefit of fear and relocate major Madrassah out of Islamabad (remove the root cause). Musharraf didn't touch Lal mosque afterwards which gives strength to the notion that he perhaps wanted to project a strong man image and was not really too worried about Lal Mosque.

Agreed...this is a post-op scenario and I agree with your viewpoint. Still there are plenty of potential lal masjids in Islamabad.

- PA should be aware of how powerful a message will be sent by attacking the mosque. PA has been using the visuals of Indian aggression at that Dargah in Kashmir for a decade. What were the visuals in Lal mosque? Fauji boots in mosque? Half burnt pages of Quran? You think a nation which can go hysterical on Quran burning issue in west would take it sitting down?

I am not too familiar with what Islam says in this matter, but I think that once you use a mosque for illegal activities and terrorism, you lose all your moral standing and the sanctity of the mosque is violated. Remember the Siege of the Holy Haram?

Maybe a Islamic scholar or someone can elaborate more on this. @niaz?

 

[Zarvan]

I agree with you on this case of media/public perception. More awareness should have been sought by the state...media should have played it's role.




Also agree



They were given ample opportunity to come out of the mosque, and all the people except the hardcore militants came out. Thousands of girl came out, I spent all night watching the TV and all the time their were hordes of women came out of the mosque, even alot of men came out. In the end all the hardcore and foreign militants were left, and they had huge caches of ammo and weapons and were up for a fight. They had erected bunkers and were wearing gas masks.

SHould I hotlink pictures of those bunkers? I know the guy who was flying the cobra sorties over the mosque and he was telling me alot of tales.



Again, public perception. And Pakistan didn't turn against the Afghan Taliban, it was the TTP which fought for a whole new cause. Afghan and Pakistani Taliban operate under completely different ideologies which overlap only on some points.



I somehow agree with this.



Agreed...this is a post-op scenario and I agree with your viewpoint. Still there are plenty of potential lal masjids in Islamabad.




I am not too familiar with what Islam says in this matter, but I think that once you use a mosque for illegal activities and terrorism, you lose all your moral standing and the sanctity of the mosque is violated. Remember the Siege of the Holy Haram?

Maybe a Islamic scholar or someone can elaborate more on this. @niaz?

sir he is talking about the bertayl in 2001 when Pakistan became partner with USA and Afghanistan was attacked and ttp came into existence in 2007 and army attacked tribal areas in 2003 sir

 

[batmannow]

sir he is talking about the bertayl in 2001 when Pakistan became partner with USA and Afghanistan was attacked and ttp came into existence in 2007 and army attacked tribal areas in 2003 sir

Another One Of Greatest Lies, PA Attacking Its Own Tribal Areas!
Fact Is PA Only , Returns Fire If It Is Fired Upon, This Formula Still Can Be Seen In Practical In some Areas ! Where Taliban Terrorsits Still Are Doing Thier Unholly Activities?
Try your Best, You Got Failled To Make Gerl Butt Jee as A COAS Thn ! & Will Fail Again On This Issue, Cause All This Fuss Is Just Bassed On 1 Singal Wish Hang Musharaf?
Its Ganja Sharif,s Good Luck He Faced Musharaf If there was Some One Else, Thn What? A Tomb In Rai Wind & Shabaz Sharif Finding, His Hide Out Somewhere In Arabistan?
Those Who were In Lal Masjid With Weapons, Were Given Full Oppourtunity To Laydown Thier Weapons & Surrender Which They Didnt Chose, So They Die Fighting As Well As Some Soilders ! Who Came To Finish Thier Act Of Terror In That Spot?
What Ever You Try You Cant Change This Fact, That They Werent Innocents Looking For Any Mercy?
Now Learn To Live With It, You Cant Be Appointed as A Judge For The Trail Of Musharaf anyway?

 

[Mav3rick]

Its like a twilight zone here in PDF. I'll break down why Lal Mosque was an incredibly bad idea.

Allow me to enlighten you:

- It was a mosque. No matter how many people were scared from Mullahs. No matter how much embarrassment it caused Pakistan internationally, it was still a mosque. For common public launching an attack on the mosque by Army sent a very wrong message. Look at the background, Musharraf was considered to be anti-Islam (he made it worse by claiming he wanted Ataturk like system) and Pakistan just had taken a highly unpopular U-turn on Taliban under Musharraf. Attack on mosque gave the extremist elements perfect marketing tool that PA was anti-Islam. A tool which they used quite successfully at masses. Worse media was covering the whole ordeal second by second.

A Mosque cannot be built on land acquired illegally or grabbed. Even Masjid-e-Nabvi was constructed on land purchased despite the fact that the owner wanted to give the land free of cost. So if a structure is build on land illegally acquired, then it cannot be called a Mosque.

Secondly, Mosques are considered sacred, holy places of worship and not of terrorism or hate mongering. A structure does not automatically become a mosque just because it is build on the fundamentals of a Mosque. There are literally thousands of Mosques across Pakistan, why did Musharraf and the PA go after any other Mosque? Neither Musharraf nor the PA went after the Mosque, they merely went after terrorists who had refused to negotiate or surrender.

- PA should be aware of how powerful a message will be sent by attacking the mosque. PA has been using the visuals of Indian aggression at that Dargah in Kashmir for a decade. What were the visuals in Lal mosque? Fauji boots in mosque? Half burnt pages of Quran? You think a nation which can go hysterical on Quran burning issue in west would take it sitting down?

PA is aware of not just that but also of a lot more things then you or I can imagine. No wonder they did everything they could to solve the matter amicably. But how does one negotiate with suicidal brainwashed maniacs?

And spare us the burnt pages or boots in the Mosque, too many exaggerations and too many blatant lies spread throughout. Besides, I wonder how much you or anybody else would have cared the same things had it been Indian/Israeli terrorists there.

- Once the Mullah ran out (the older brother) in Burqah, Musharraf should have acted sanely and used him for leverage. Instead that Mullah was paraded in PTV. I watched the interview of that Mullah, he was still in Burqa (had to remove the face part when interview started). The whole show was to humiliate him, his brother (Ghazi something) watched the whole show and obviously thought it better to keep inside till the end. This mistake ensured that Ghazi will die in the mosque and will become a martyr.

The mistake was to let loose the terrorists that were given safe passage without deep interrogations and determination of mentality and future course of actions for these terrorists. Our state should have a no tolerance policy for terrorists and they should all be shot on site, the Mullah who was trying to flee in a burqa should have been executed on live TV for terrorism and for the murder of PA and SSG Jawans.

- Frankly speaking, Musharraf had hundred of ways to sort out the Lal mosque issue. Stop the electricity, water and gas, use tear gas to force people to come out (or even bribe them, it would've been much easier).

Frankly speaking, Musharraf chose almost the best course of action but he was too lenient.

- When PA had taken a U-Turn on Taliban which were marketed as great Mujahids for two decades and was facing public anger it was the worst stunt Musharraf could have pulled. It gave much needed authenticity to the extremist groups that Musharraf was Anti-Islam and those groups were right in fighting PA.

The real Talibaan still know the stand of Pakistan and PA. It is the foreign funded, terrorism inspired TTP that you are speaking of.

- Sanity suggests that even if it was a temple and some Hindus had raised the flag of India over it. Don't lose your cool and don't make them martyrs for a cause. Operation will be finished in an hour but martyrs and visuals will live forever. It was an extremely bad idea to attack Lal mosque and it only fragmented the Pakistani society. That is why Dictators are ill equipped to deal with political issues and should remain in barracks ANY politician could have handled it better.

That is a very different scenario because it would have been political and not terrorism. And it was the politicians that were the driving force of that operation, so what if they deny their roles today. We all know how our politicians change their faces every few days.

- IF Musharraf had gone that far and damage was done it would have been best to take benefit of fear and relocate major Madrassah out of Islamabad (remove the root cause). Musharraf didn't touch Lal mosque afterwards which gives strength to the notion that he perhaps wanted to project a strong man image and was not really too worried about Lal Mosque.

The fact that Musharraf never removed the Mosque or its surrounding structures is proof that Musharraf had no ill intention towards the Mosque or the Madersa's. That he was only interested in elimination of extremism and terrorism from that Mosque.

 

[Mav3rick]

@Zarvan Read and learn brother.

 

[Zarvan]

Allow me to enlighten you:





A Mosque cannot be built on land acquired illegally or grabbed. Even Masjid-e-Nabvi was constructed on land purchased despite the fact that the owner wanted to give the land free of cost. So if a structure is build on land illegally acquired, then it cannot be called a Mosque.

Secondly, Mosques are considered sacred, holy places of worship and not of terrorism or hate mongering. A structure does not automatically become a mosque just because it is build on the fundamentals of a Mosque. There are literally thousands of Mosques across Pakistan, why did Musharraf and the PA go after any other Mosque? Neither Musharraf nor the PA went after the Mosque, they merely went after terrorists who had refused to negotiate or surrender.





PA is aware of not just that but also of a lot more things then you or I can imagine. No wonder they did everything they could to solve the matter amicably. But how does one negotiate with suicidal brainwashed maniacs?

And spare us the burnt pages or boots in the Mosque, too many exaggerations and too many blatant lies spread throughout. Besides, I wonder how much you or anybody else would have cared the same things had it been Indian/Israeli terrorists there.





The mistake was to let loose the terrorists that were given safe passage without deep interrogations and determination of mentality and future course of actions for these terrorists. Our state should have a no tolerance policy for terrorists and they should all be shot on site, the Mullah who was trying to flee in a burqa should have been executed on live TV for terrorism and for the murder of PA and SSG Jawans.





Frankly speaking, Musharraf chose almost the best course of action but he was too lenient.





The real Talibaan still know the stand of Pakistan and PA. It is the foreign funded, terrorism inspired TTP that you are speaking of.





That is a very different scenario because it would have been political and not terrorism. And it was the politicians that were the driving force of that operation, so what if they deny their roles today. We all know how our politicians change their faces every few days.





The fact that Musharraf never removed the Mosque or its surrounding structures is proof that Musharraf had no ill intention towards the Mosque or the Madersa's. That he was only interested in elimination of extremism and terrorism from that Mosque.

Those mosques were not build on illegal lands some mosques were older than Islamabad Sir some part of it may be forigen but mostly it is led by people of tirbes in Pakistan who were slaughtered and killed by Army operations

and asking to stop evils and is not hate mongering Sir

 

[jaibi]

The maltreatment of Musharraf is sowing seeds of further descent into the Pakistani army and possibly lying foundations for another coup. The judiciary should have let this one go.