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Lal Masjid cleric’s interview in burqa still a mystery

Agreed but who is going to 'Bell' the cat.

What do you think sir?

I personally think that nobody in the current political landscape has the will to do it, the best bet is a ruthless dictator, but I don't think that would happen. The Awaam and media is too spineless and pro-TTP/extremism to do it.
 
Former commissioner
Former commissioner’s allegation: Khalid Khwaja brought about Lal Masjid tragedy
ISLAMABAD, Feb 11: Former commissioner of Islamabad Khalid Pervez affirmed that the well-known spy Khalid Khwaja was to blame for the bloodbath in Lal Masjid in July 2007.

Mr Pervez told the one-man commission of Justice Shehzado Sheikh of the Federal Shariat Court that the clerics of the mosque had reached a settlement with the government the previous month, and that the clerics were about to hand over the keys of the Children Library next to the mosque that their students had occupied, when the retired ISI officer disrupted the peaceful settlement to the six-month old confrontation.

Earlier on January 20, the Islamabad administration in its written reply submitted to the one-man commission claimed that Khalid Khawaja disrupted negotiations between the local administration and the management of the mosque which led to the military
operation.

Khalid Khwaja went missing in March 2010, reportedly on a trip to North Waziristan and a few weeks later was found murdered.

The Asian Tigers group that claimed responsibility for the crime had never been heard before.

In a videotape released about the same time showed Khwaja making some startling statement — apparently under duress — that he was a double agent for ISI and CIA and had convinced Maulana Abdul Aziz, the chief cleric of Lal Masjid, to come out of the besieged mosque in a burqa.

That episode of July 4, 2007, the day after the military launched its operation against the hardliners holed up in the mosque, had dominated the proceedings of the commission on Friday. However, it remains a mystery who manipulated the spectacle.

Former commissioner Khalid Pervez also traced the origin of the confrontation between the mosque elements and the government to the violent protests that madressah students staged over the murder of Maulana Azam Tariq, chief of the banned Sipah-i-Sahaba Pakistan (SSP) religious group, in the federal capital on October 6, 2003.

Pervez, now a secretary in the government of Khyber Pakhtunkhwa, said the students of Lal Masjid overwhelmed the staff of Pakistan Institute of Medical Sciences, seized the body of Azam Tariq and brought it to D-chowk for the funeral prayer.

After the prayer the crowd took to violence which resulted in the death of one person and injuries to many. Inspector General of Islamabad Police was transferred for that.

In the following year, he said, Maulana Abdul Aziz, Khateeb Lal Masjid, and some other clerics, issued a fatwa terming the Wana operation in South Waziristan Agency un-Islamic and forbidding Muslims from offering funeral prayers of the soldiers who die in the operation.

Since being an employee of the Auqaf Department he was not supposed to issue such decrees, he said the government dismissed Maulana Aziz from service.

As tensions build up the Islamabad district administration called in the army to maintain the writ of the government, because, on a number of occasions the mosque clerics and their students abducted local police officers, he added.

Tariq Mehmood Pirzada, the present commissioner of Islamabad, told the commission that relations of the government with Lal Masjid management are stable now and the clerics are happy with the policy of the government of the day.

He informed the commission that after the military operation the government allotted the management 36 kanals of land for extending the Lal Masjid and building a new Jamia Hafsa in place of the girls seminary that was destroyed.

According to the reply of the district administration the land agreement was signed with the Lal Masjid Khateeb Maulana Aziz in 2011.
Under the agreement, a 16 kanal land adjacent to the Lal Masjid has been given for its extension in the future and 20 kanals for Jamia Hafsa.

Brig (retired) Javed Iqbal Cheema, the then director general National Crisis Management Cell, in his statement to the commission, said that a large number of the male and female students of Jamia Faridia and Jamia Hafsa had left the mosque complex during January to June 2007.

He said that “during July 3 to July 10, 2007 (that the military operation lasted) a total of 1,132 students came out from the Lal Masjid.

The 103 who did not surrender faced military operation by the Special Service Group of army”.

He denied the allegations that the army used chemical weapons in the operation.

“Since Pakistan is a signatory of the convention against chemical weapons, it cannot produce chemical weapons, or use them against anyone,” he said.

The commission on Monday once again summoned former military ruler General (retired) Pervez Musharraf and the former prime minister Shaukat Aziz for February 12 (today).

Earlier, the commission had directed them to appear before it on February 8, but neither hey appeared nor their counsel joined the proceedings.

While the summon for Mr Musharraf was delivered at his Chak Shahzad farmhouse, that for Mr Aziz was sent through courier service to his London residence as well as on his personal email address.
 
I believe that we should adopt Saudi style justice, and make an example of some terrorists so that everybody knows that the state will not tolerate it.

Hang some folks in public squares and propagate this story...


With due respect NP,

We got to this pit of Jahliyah in an effort to become Saudis. And you Sir are asking for even more Saudi-ization?

Na bhai na. Bi Billi Chooha landora hi bhala.

Saudi traditions minus oil equals Yemen or worse Somalia. Is that what you would like Pakistan to become?


Don't take me wrong. I have travelled through Saudi more than 99% Pakistanis and I have lived with Saudi families and enjoyed their hospitality.

They are great people within their own geography, history, culture, and Beduin background.

I'd love to see all those folks whom I met in the previous journeys. So you know I am not saying things out of malice or hate.


We the Paks are entirely different people in many ways and a common relgion cannot white wash huge cultural, historical, and political differences.


Our solutions will come from our traditions, our culture, and our efforts to work for our nation aka Pakistan.

The last thing we want is to go back in time and copy those who are 100 years behind us in terms of political and social evolutions.


Thank you.


p.s. Saudis culture is similar to Tribal agencies in Pak (and in some ways even more ancient). Would you want the tribal agency laws aka Talib-bozo rules to be applied to Karachi? or any urban center in Pakistan. Then my friend you are deeply deeply in the wrong path.
 
Misinformation and insensitivity is amazing.

Do you really not have an idea about the religious divisions on the issue of Pakistan? Who made you a think tank buddy?

Brelvis were all for Pakistan. Deobandis were divided with the much larger section being anti-Pakistan on theological grounds. Nationalism afterall was an alien concept among Muslims before 20th century. But Maulana Ashraf Ali Thanvi and his followers were die-hard supporters of Pakistan. Maulana Hussain Ahmad Madni, the acknowledged elder of Deoband school had known that Pakistan was inevitable, but he had his reasons. I am not going to delve into a debate over this but I would simply point to the value of this opposition for Muslims who stayed back in India.

I would like to ask you to do some research on how come our Quaid came to be known as Quaid-e-Azam: Hint - it was a molvi :)

The level of prejudice and rhetoric against anyone displaying even a shred of sympathy for people who wish for Islamic way of life is unbelievable. Why do you choose to ignore that Pakistan was 'sold' to the masses on 'Pakistan ka Matlab kya? La Ilaha Illahllah'. Had this not been done, Pakistan would not have come into existence. My grand father worked for Paksitan movement under this premise. Had the good man known how kids would one day bash his inspiration while enjoying the benefits of his hard work, he might have decided to stay put in his home in Chak Bamu.

Anyone who discounts the link between Islam and Pakistan is telling a lie. Pure and simple.


My dear poster,

You do this magic, slight of hand, Jadoo gari.

You present one little thing and then quickly bait us by flipping a huge bird (kala kabootar).

Please do not insult us, we are not doing 5th grade sarkari school Mutala-e-Pakistan's lie infested book.


Here let me say this plain and simple.


those who were running Lal Masjid Sham sham Islamo-fascism are the illegitimate children of Mullahs who opposed Pakistan, declared Jinnah as Kafir, and tried to assassinate him.

JuI and JI types were supposed to suck Hindu nationalists (HNs) thumb (and I say it to be polite, otherwise you know what I mean).

But all these Islamo-fascist goons jumped the HN band wagon and showed up in Pakistan to continue doing Hindu-Nationalis' work, by trying to destroy our beautiful country from within.


So please do not be the cheap lackey of these munafiqeen, if you want to stand with the nation of Pakistan.


Thank you
 
@FaujHistorian "showed up in Pakistan to continue doing Hindus work, by trying to destroy our beautiful country from within.
'

I respect you as a poster but isn't it wrong to blame Pakistani Hindus or Hindus for your country's problems ? I think this Generalization is wrong. Its insult to Hindus in Pakistan just like its insult to Muslims for terrorists' religion.
 
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@FaujHistorian "showed up in Pakistan to continue doing Hindus work, by trying to destroy our beautiful country from within.
'

I respect you as a poster but isn't it wrong to blame Pakistani Hindus or Hindus for your country's problems ? I think this Generalization is wrong. Its insult to Hindus in Pakistan just like its insult to Muslims for terrorists' religion.

Mmmm I do not think in Pakistani mainstream such language is considered offensive. Hindu = evil is the foundation of the nation, no matter how much one tries to dress that up in nice language.

Now lets go back to debating if this feller is a good terrorist or a bad terrorist.
 
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@FaujHistorian "showed up in Pakistan to continue doing Hindus work, by trying to destroy our beautiful country from within.
'

I respect you as a poster but isn't it wrong to blame Pakistani Hindus or Hindus for your country's problems ? I think this Generalization is wrong. Its insult to Hindus in Pakistan just like its insult to Muslims for terrorists' religion.


Good catch. I meant to say "Hindu nationalists on HNs" (the RS$hite, bajrang dal etc) from historical pov 1900-1947.

Many Indians become defensive on this. And try to play with the words. HNs in the 20th century (from 1901 all the way to 1947) never accepted any concessions (be them constitutional or geographical) to the Muslims of Indian subcontinent.

For these HNs, the whole group aka Muslims were just another caste in the Hindu structure and so do not deserve anything more than what other lower castes were getting.

In that context, they will not accept Pakistan as a vibrant and successful country, especially if this country challenges any story being built by the HNs.


Please do not take any personal offense on this and do not try to bring Pakistani Hindus (still living in Sindh mostly) in this discussion.


Thanks again for pointing out a term that for Indian becomes more generalized (without proper historical context).


peace
 
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Mmmm I do not think in Pakistani mainstream such language is considered offensive. Hindu = evil is the foundation of the nation, no matter how much one tries to dress that up in nice language.

Now lets go back to debating if this feller is a good terrorist or a bad terrorist.


As I replied to KRAIT, the term Hindu Nationalist is more accurate in the historical context.

Just remember this.


While many many (a large portion of Muslims) voted for Hindu nationalists led parties

there was almost zero HINDU vote for the Muslim led secular parties.


This was like Hindus had formed unity against even the secular Muslim-led parties.

Now tell me, is this not a prejudice of nth degree against pre-1947 Muslims? (and in some circles still continues today)

there was one major exception when Sardar Chotu Raam was member of Unionist party.

But then it was an exception of nth degree and occurred in the upper most economic class.

From vote blocks point of view, all Hindus were united against anything remotely "Muslim" when it came to Muslim majority provinces.

I bet this was never taught in the sarkari school history books of India.


so do not be defensive. My references to the history are unbiased and as close as possible to the truth.


thank you
 
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@FaujHistorian Kindly see this thread.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/centra...-sweep-24-muslim-candidates-bjp-wins-big.html

Modi is Hindu Nationalist, has been part of Rath Yatra, BJP leader in Gujrat and alleged killed or Muslims. Now tell me, how a HN is threat to Indian Muslims.

Hindus in Pakistan don't have any influence like Muslims have in India.

I stop here, we can discuss this in some other dedicated thread.

This example does not apply because of many reasons. I'll list few.


1. This example is from 2013 Indian politics (and not from 1900-1947)
2. This example is applicable to Muslim minority provinces and not Muslim majority provinces.


Please keep the proper context in mind.

Otherwise this can become a typical Pak-Ind slug fest that has nothing to do with Talib-bozo Mullahs of Lal Masjid thread.


Thank you
 
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Yes, many muslims voted for hindu mahasabha.

Sarkari textbooks are famous not in my country sir.

Anyways nice try at using nice language. Evil Hindus had indeed formed unity against ''Muslim'' parties, I have recordings from their midnight child blood drinking + conspiring against Muslims meetings.
 
My dear poster,

You do this magic, slight of hand, Jadoo gari.

You present one little thing and then quickly bait us by flipping a huge bird (kala kabootar).

Please do not insult us, we are not doing 5th grade sarkari school Mutala-e-Pakistan's lie infested book.


Here let me say this plain and simple.


those who were running Lal Masjid Sham sham Islamo-fascism are the illegitimate children of Mullahs who opposed Pakistan, declared Jinnah as Kafir, and tried to assassinate him.

JuI and JI types were supposed to suck Hindu nationalists (HNs) thumb (and I say it to be polite, otherwise you know what I mean).

But all these Islamo-fascist goons jumped the HN band wagon and showed up in Pakistan to continue doing Hindu-Nationalis' work, by trying to destroy our beautiful country from within.


So please do not be the cheap lackey of these munafiqeen, if you want to stand with the nation of Pakistan.


Thank you

Fancy phraseology will not get you anywhere. Your appreciation of offensive language is well noted.

It is amusing that you have side-stepped the issue of historical accuracy and have shot a number of tangents which subsequently led you make apologetic corrections when Indian posters objected to your unfounded claims. I intend to make you admit that you made similar unfounded claims which did nothing to refute my challenge, but did show your fondness for colorful crass language.

Your basic problem is that you have a specific mentality and you wish to twist, turn, & distort facts in order to make them fit your case. That such efforts often go unchallenged on this forum is unfortunate but expected. Such things happen on most fora and usually the loud and numerous declare victory. Not in this case though.

1. You had said: "If Pakistan was made on religious grounds then why 99.999999% of Mullahs at that time were deathly against it". Since you are such an expert on pre-1947 history, enlighten us with your concrete evidence that would support your claim. Let us have it..... No? I thought so. When you allow your guts do the talking, such things happen. I hope you apologize for having made an unfounded claim. If not, read my first post on this thread again and tell me that I am factually wrong. Also tell the venerable Niaz sb that he is wrong too.

Like I said, who made you a Think Tank?

2. Your headlong rush made you commit another blunder: "Please do not insult us, we are not doing 5th grade sarkari school Mutala-e-Pakistan's lie infested book." OK, pls provide a reference. I know you can not, but let me ask you anyway. Let us now overlook your over-zealousness and make it easier for your to actually formulate a reply. Take 11th and 12th grade / class / Mutalia-e-Pakistan book and let us know what specific lies are told therein. BTW, none of what I wrote in my first post came from any syllabus or course book. One has to find these things in order to challenge crass and misleading claims like that ones you made.

3. The stance take by section of Deobandi school had nothing to do with what Maulana Maududi's views. One objected at placing a nationalistic narrative in religious garb, the other wondered if a nation could be made by leadership that was then available to Muslims. Totally different stances. Now let me ask what makes you think that either or these opinions equates to sucking NH appendages? Again you have no way to substantiate your incorrect statement. You are going to ignore this just like you ignored the valid points raised in my first post.

4. You have said that Mullahs tried to assasinate 'Jinnah'. Let me ask for a reference supporting your assertion. I am aware of only one effort to assasinate our QUAID. I wonder if you have any evidence to connect that attempt to Mullahs.

5. Islamo-fascism is a term first used and circulated by George Bush and his gang of murderers. While you choose to use this term, I wonder if you agree with that gang's doctrine, thinking, and methods as well. What do you have to say about that? I would not be caught dead in that company, how do you fancy yourself in such company.

6. Our country looses its beauty once people like you spring to its defence. You are just the type who fan the flames of hatred by pushing a loaded, skewed, and lopsided narrative. What good has ever come out from the likes of you?
 
Fancy phraseology will not get you anywhere. Your appreciation of offensive language is well noted.

It is amusing that you have side-stepped the issue of historical accuracy and have shot a number of tangents which subsequently led you make apologetic corrections when Indian posters objected to your unfounded claims. I intend to make you admit that you made similar unfounded claims which did nothing to refute my challenge, but did show your fondness for colorful crass language.

Your basic problem is that you have a specific mentality and you wish to twist, turn, & distort facts in order to make them fit your case. That such efforts often go unchallenged on this forum is unfortunate but expected. Such things happen on most fora and usually the loud and numerous declare victory. Not in this case though.

1. You had said: "If Pakistan was made on religious grounds then why 99.999999% of Mullahs at that time were deathly against it". Since you are such an expert on pre-1947 history, enlighten us with your concrete evidence that would support your claim. Let us have it..... No? I thought so. When you allow your guts do the talking, such things happen. I hope you apologize for having made an unfounded claim. If not, read my first post on this thread again and tell me that I am factually wrong. Also tell the venerable Niaz sb that he is wrong too.

Like I said, who made you a Think Tank?

2. Your headlong rush made you commit another blunder: "Please do not insult us, we are not doing 5th grade sarkari school Mutala-e-Pakistan's lie infested book." OK, pls provide a reference. I know you can not, but let me ask you anyway. Let us now overlook your over-zealousness and make it easier for your to actually formulate a reply. Take 11th and 12th grade / class / Mutalia-e-Pakistan book and let us know what specific lies are told therein. BTW, none of what I wrote in my first post came from any syllabus or course book. One has to find these things in order to challenge crass and misleading claims like that ones you made.

3. The stance take by section of Deobandi school had nothing to do with what Maulana Maududi's views. One objected at placing a nationalistic narrative in religious garb, the other wondered if a nation could be made by leadership that was then available to Muslims. Totally different stances. Now let me ask what makes you think that either or these opinions equates to sucking NH appendages? Again you have no way to substantiate your incorrect statement. You are going to ignore this just like you ignored the valid points raised in my first post.

4. You have said that Mullahs tried to assasinate 'Jinnah'. Let me ask for a reference supporting your assertion. I am aware of only one effort to assasinate our QUAID. I wonder if you have any evidence to connect that attempt to Mullahs.

5. Islamo-fascism is a term first used and circulated by George Bush and his gang of murderers. While you choose to use this term, I wonder if you agree with that gang's doctrine, thinking, and methods as well. What do you have to say about that? I would not be caught dead in that company, how do you fancy yourself in such company.

6. Our country looses its beauty once people like you spring to its defence. You are just the type who fan the flames of hatred by pushing a loaded, skewed, and lopsided narrative. What good has ever come out from the likes of you?


Funny that you defend the Talib-bozo burqposh mullahs who have murdered little girls, women, and children and our law enforcement personnel.

And defend them in the name of Islam.

This is no different than the behavior of European fascists from the 20th century.

And if someone calls the Mullah Talib-bozos what they are "Islamo-fascists", you bring in your favorite whipping boy George Bush.


If a Mullah is a black crow, doesn't matter if Americans call it black crow, or us Pakistanis call that dimwit a black crow.

That turd Mullah is still a black crow, and you cannot make him white, no matter how much choona (white wash) you put on it.


It is typical of Islamists in Pakistan to start saying "Sir Ji" "Sir JI" I am very nice, teddy bear, softy softy, cudly cudly, why are you calling me bad.

I just want to bring Islam fascism in this country. Why are you calling me bad.


Well Sir,

We have had enough of Islam thanks to these Talib-Bozos.

So please do not spread their message of hate, no matter how softly softly you speak on a public forum.


We know what Burqa posh Mullah and his lunatic brother (may he rot in hell) did to Islu as these two devil-worshippers surely turned this beautiful city to "Islam is bad". If you want these goons to be your leaders. Be my guest. But do not expect the rest of Pakistan to be the goons like them.


Thank you.


p.s Adding Hindu-Nationalist is for those clever Hindu baboos who were trying to drag poor haris Hindus from Sindh. What's the problem you have with the specific term? Huh?

Doobtay ko tinkay ka sahara. Dare I say!
 
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481790_429761090412041_1069744473_n.jpg

309160_428593207195496_1385617363_n.jpg


This is the picture of Mullah Burqa! remember him??? Surrounded by TTP Khawarij in Lal masjid and instigating fitnah which continues to this day. This Mullah should have been hanged but instead he is now in the Supreme Court and the CJ is giving him full protocol to wage his judicial war against Pak army. CJ says, there is no proof that there were terrorists inside Lal masjid....
 

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