Kiyani Demands US Limit Drone Attacks and Operations

[muse]

The universe of possibility is infinite -- Pakistan undergo implosion, sure it's possible but it won't be imploding alone.

Lets stick to being reasonable

 

[TruthSeeker]

But honestly without a culture change in the US, it's just pointless. One way or the other, either the US culture will change or she will go home - It's the only thing on offer, regardless of the lies it tells her home population.

My prediction is that we will abandon our attempt to "make" the Islamic extremists leave us alone and retreat into "fortress America." And, perhaps, also reinvigorate "fortress Israel". My own long held belief is that it is only our captivity to Israel that draws us into Muslim affairs. Muslim oil can be simply bought for $ without political strings attached. IF we could break our addiction of protecting Israel, then we could adopt a more sensible USA-values oriented approach to Muslim nations. Unfortunately, I just don't see the possibility of breaking free of Israel.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Caro Fratello Chimico, you've made my day (mostly because the piece echos me)



Ok, I didn't have that part in mind, I was more like some serious thought as to why and if agreed that it is necessary, how, to proceed.

But honestly without a culture change in the US, it's just pointless. One way or the other, either the US culture will change or she will go home - It's the only thing on offer, regardless of the lies it tells her home population.

I dont think the US is going to quit any time soon, But Pakistani certainly hit the jackpot courtesy RD. The US would now have to change the game plans , the stakes are quit high ,They cant mess up with Pakistan. The best way out is to Arm Pakistan with those Drones.They would have to or else they have no other choice, owing to what Pakistan has to offer.If they can't then those CIA contractors would get kicked out plus the drones wont be flying any more, Its my impression that Fauj has finaly decided that , enough is enough ,The worst which could happen would be our Aid would be cut off , Alot of people say it would atleast give our local Industry a chance to grow, If this time US lays down sanctions there wont be any free trade ,The patience is finally withering out , and the best part is , the timing is just perfect.

 

[clmeta]

because they know NK IRAN have balls and real men . and pakistan lol show case of forces which can kill own people

Not true because if Pakistan army was so subservient, US of A would have taken out Pakistan's nucleur weapons. The fact is ISI and CIA are in agreement on drones. At least in principle. Your army cries when the drones kill the "good" jihadis. They of course don't know that good jihadis will become bad jihadis some day.

 

[VCheng]

The universe of possibility is infinite -- Pakistan undergo implosion, sure it's possible but it won't be imploding alone.

Lets stick to being reasonable

...but seriously, on balance of probabilities of the three scenarios, what outcome is the more (or most) likely one?

 

[RazorMC]

... During democrazy, we see only debt, IMF, corruption, and near bankruptcy of the country...

Actually, records might show that IMF "assistance" is quite high during military rule.
One exception that I know of was former Pres. Musharraf. He and former PM Aziz got rid of IMF/World Bank but our Shaheed Bhutto Zardari put us right back into their cages.

And also, I don't think that GDP is an accurate measure of prosperity. Maybe growth, but definitely not overall prosperity. Look at the world GDP today. But if every country was to present all the money in its system, there would still not be enough to cover the GDP which is artificially inflated.

Gen. Kayani may not bee too eager to come to power or to confront the US head-on. Hamid Gul may have his opinions, but Gen. Kayani doesn't seem to share the same thinking pattern.

 

[RazorMC]

My prediction is that we will abandon our attempt to "make" the Islamic extremists leave us alone and retreat into "fortress America." And, perhaps, also reinvigorate "fortress Israel". My own long held belief is that it is only our captivity to Israel that draws us into Muslim affairs. Muslim oil can be simply bought for $ without political strings attached. IF we could break our addiction of protecting Israel, then we could adopt a more sensible USA-values oriented approach to Muslim nations. Unfortunately, I just don't see the possibility of breaking free of Israel.

It is not possible for the US to separate itself from Israel at this stage. Its relations with Israel have become too deeply entrenched into US policy-making for the US to do that. There is growing sentiment regarding this issue, but one has to remember that neither political party is willing to detach the US from its ally in the Middle-East.

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

Not true because if Pakistan army was so subservient, US of A would have taken out Pakistan's nucleur weapons. The fact is ISI and CIA are in agreement on drones. At least in principle. Your army cries when the drones kill the "good" jihadis. They of course don't know that good jihadis will become bad jihadis some day.

dream on ...
Frankly its my understanding that this war is specifically designed to negate the effect of Rising India and Rising China. Pakistan is part of it since India is no where close to even recognizing Pakistan. The moment India realizes Pakistan's reality and moves forward to settle the disputes the holy Uncle Sam would lose the true objectives of this open ended WAR. Pakistan has no reason to keep those good jihadis unless India defines its strategic course towards Pakistan. Its pretty good that current Singh's Regime in India and The Startagists have finally awoken to this bitter reality or having Friendly ties with India is still a far fetched dream....Time would tell,But the current indian gesture in the form of cricket diplomacy certainly speaks volumes of Indian commitment towards normalizing the air which was non existent in the past.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It is not possible for the US to separate itself from Israel at this stage. Its relations with Israel have become too deeply entrenched into US policy-making for the US to do that. There is growing sentiment regarding this issue, but one has to remember that neither political party is willing to detach the US from its ally in the Middle-East.

Yes, exactly my point and belief. Because this policy is so totally supported by the USA communications media (academia, news and entertainment) no one can even raise a serious debate about what our total support for Israeli decisions costs my country in both lives and dollars. 99% of my fellow Americans think that we would be a failure as a moral nation and people if we did not protect Israel from Israel's enemies. Meanwhile, Israel doesn't give a $hit about how its decisions affect the USA.

 

[clmeta]

dream on ...
Frankly its my understanding that this war is specifically designed to negate the effect of Rising India and Rising China. Pakistan is part of it since India is no where close to even recognizing Pakistan. The moment India realizes Pakistan's reality and moves forward to settle the disputes the holy Uncle Sam would lose the true objectives of this open ended WAR. Pakistan has no reason to keep those good jihadis unless India defines its strategic course towards Pakistan. Its pretty good that current Singh's Regime in India and The Startagists have finally awoken to this bitter reality or having Friendly ties with India is still a far fetched dream....Time would tell,But the current indian gesture in the form of cricket diplomacy certainly speaks volumes of Indian commitment towards normalizing the air which was non existent in the past.

How do drone attacks in Pakistan negate rising India or rising China? Kuchh bhi bolte ho dost?

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

...but seriously, on balance of probabilities of the three scenarios, what outcome is the more (or most) likely one?

As they say, When the dust settles , there would be only GOOD
That thing can be controlled,Obviously through some painfull chain of events, But how differnt would that Pain could be from watching every sucide bombing, in markets,schools mosques and shrines and our own Army rolling down in our own land killing our own people ,Our Economy crumbling and Interest loaded US AID, IMF and World Bank sticking those shitty conditions along with there peanuts so that the CIA mercanaries could run rouge and kill innocent Pakistanis and Drones killing women and childeren in there sleep , and yet the White House issues a report that Pakistan has no clear Path of fighting terorism , Fck that, How that thing could be different from this .....????

 

[H2O3C4Nitrogen]

How do drone attacks in Pakistan negate rising India or rising China? Kuchh bhi bolte ho dost?

Good Question

If Pakistan Destabilizes , how would India persue its Economic Interests in Central Asia or lets say after 50 or 70 years where would India Stand with destabilized Country Armed with Nukes. Ask South Korea and Japan how they define Risk with having a state like DPRK in there vicinity. A destabilized Pakistan would severely hamper the Economic growth China and India deems

 

[muse]

on balance of probabilities of the three scenarios, what outcome is the more (or most) likely one?

Like i said to you, Pakistan has no exclusive on suffering -- There will be reasonable people who will try to salvage the relationship - however, look at what the relationship is, the fact that the "relationship" is between intelligence agencies gives us some insight into the substance of the relationship -- it's no big loss for either side and I really do hope that that's the way they will both see it.

The substance or quality of this relationship is entirely due to the culture or what passes for it, in the US - I encourage you to review the posts by razaorMc and TS - now, this whole 9/11 BS is running thin - get over it already, it's the US which blew that opportunity because, again, the culture, wants to be Israel, not just play it, it wants to be it - and of course she should get what she wants.

Pakistan, will be hurt by the evacuation of the US from south central Asia, exactly how?? Do you follow what I am getting at? Another ten years wasted on thinking the US policy makers know what they are doing, reality is they are clueless -- honestly think about it, what does Pakistan lose if the US is gone??

What does Iraq lose with the US gone??

Who other than tyrants and extreme sectarians such as the Saudi or the Iranian want the US around - because the US delivers what??

US wants to be Israel, lets give it to her, let her be what she wants to be.

Then lets see how this whole "way of life" things works out for the US, do you follow? It's absolutely imperative that the US win over populations in an arc from the tip of north Africa to Singapore, do their actions thus far engender confidence that they will be able to do that?? Because these populations have a stake in such enterprise??

let US figure out her own problems at home, she can play "exceptional" or she can be a real partner, the choice is hers to make. Either way, the problem is cultural, if she chooses to stay "exceptional" then of course no cultural change is required, on the other hand, if her way of life is to continue, that culture must give way - but that's for people inside the US to decide on.

 

[clmeta]

Don't think enough Pakistanis will agree with you on this point. The argument seems very far fetched.

 

[muse]

This is the first response from the US, lets see whether things will go as Baloch think s they will:

CIA has no plans to suspend drone strikes: report
DAWN.COM

KARACHI: According to a report in the Washington Post, US defense officials have claimed that there is no plan to suspend or restrict the CIA’s drone campaign in Pakistan, and that the agency has not been asked to pull any of its employees out of Pakistan.

US and Pakistan’s relationship was the focus of a nearly four-hour meeting Monday at the CIA headquarters between agency director Leon E. Panetta and Lt. Gen. Ahmed Shuja Pasha, the head of Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence directorate.

The report stated that during the meeting, Panetta said that he has an obligation to protect the American people and was responsible for national security and therefore he had no plans to call an end to the drone strikes in Pakistan and nor was he planning to alter their frequency.

However, the CIA agreed to reveal more about its operatives and their activities in Pakistan but said that it would offer no information on the under-cover personnel.

The report also clearly stated that Raymond Davis was a CIA agent who was in Pakistan to spy on the country’s nuclear program and find information on terrorists groups.

It was agreed in the meetings that efforts would continue to be made to reduce tensions in the Pak-US relationship.