Kindergarten boy ‘gang-raped’ by principal, others

[That Guy]

Because it stops at outrage. Where is the mass political movement? Where is the challenge to both Islamists and the Pakistani Establishment? The mistake you're making is thinking that you have to submit to the system. You're not willing to acknowledge that the system is flawed and a new construct needs to be erected.

Do you think I'm crazy or selfish? It isn't MY people who die by the tens of thousands while politicians alternate between yelling and purring without actually doing; it's yours.

The mistake YOU'RE making is that we're on the ******* internet. What the hell are a bunch of people sitting in front of their computers going to do?

The fact that you're trying to politicize this situation, especially when this is an issue every country faces, and then bringing up terrorist militant actions, proves to me that beyond a doubt that you're only doing this to push your own selfish political views on people of this forum.

This has never stopped with outrage and you know it. Don't ignore facts, don't ignore history and certainly don't turn this social issue into a political one.

At first you say

Rape may be against the law in Pakistan but we're not talking about "law" here

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...g-raped-principal-others-3.html#ixzz2flolr4sP

Then you say

Because it stops at outrage. Where is the mass political movement? Where is the challenge to both Islamists and the Pakistani Establishment? The mistake you're making is thinking that you have to submit to the system. You're not willing to acknowledge that the system is flawed and a new construct needs to be erected.

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/social...g-raped-principal-others-3.html#ixzz2flotRpfX

What sort of logic is this? It makes no sense what so ever. Usually, social and political issues can overlap, but in this case, it is only a social issue. There is only so much political parties and protests can do. What must be done is social change, WHICH I HINTED AT AND YOU PROMPTED TO IGNORE.

It's always frustrating to talk to you, because every time I do, you always end up making some sort of comment that either contradicts your previous ones, or makes no logical sense whatsoever.

If you want to have a direct statistical basis for my statement (number of unreported cases in pakistan vs uk) I agree I dont have them, probably we will never know.

However I have certain indication of why I am right.

Anybody who wants to first tell his parents/male senior members that she is raped will first think twice because she knows her life will be changed forever.
Next her parents/male elders might try to suppress it due to fear that their daughter will never get married / they might get harassed if the rapist is in powerful position in village/town
If the rapist is within biradri, that is another problem.

Next in police station, they might be persuaded not to file report for their own good.

Only those who cross these hurdles, make the statistics we see.

I'm not saying that unreported cases don't exist, of course they do, but I always question people when they say that one nation has more unreported cases of one thing or another than another nation.

 

[livingdead]

I'm not saying that unreported cases don't exist, of course they do, but I always question people when they say that one nation has more unreported cases of one thing or another than another nation.

That is my opinion based on general difference in society and strength of Institutions here especially wrt law and order.
But I get you point that one should not have an opinion without having statistical basis, I am of the view that one can have it as long as he/she can give the basis on which the opinion was formed even if no statistical data is available.

 

[That Guy]

That is my opinion based on general difference in society and strength of Institutions here especially wrt law and order.
But I get you point that one should not have an opinion without having statistical basis, I am of the view that one can have it as long as he/she can give the basis on which the opinion was formed even if no statistical data is available.

I understand your point, I was just being a dick because why not? If someone has to question something, why not me, right?

 

[livingdead]

I understand your point, I was just being a dick because why not? If someone has to question something, why not me, right?

lolz.. I try that with @Armstrong sometimes...

 

[Solomon2]

The mistake YOU'RE making is that we're on the ******* internet. What the hell are a bunch of people sitting in front of their computers going to do?

The revolutionists of the Enlightenment accomplished their task mostly by writing letters to organize. The internet makes this faster.

The fact that you're trying to politicize this situation, especially when this is an issue every country faces -

If you don't quit with the "Pakistan is no worse than any other country" meme you'll NEVER be able to solve your country's problems.

you're only doing this to push your own selfish political views on people of this forum.

Should you even be considering my "selfishness" rather than thinking in terms of what your country needs?

Usually, social and political issues can overlap, but in this case, it is only a social issue.

Not making it a political issue is a choice. We have developed ways here in the U.S. to effectively deal with child molesters at the political level and there's no reason, other than choosing not to do so, that Pakistan can't do the same.

What must be done is social change, WHICH I HINTED AT AND YOU PROMPTED TO IGNORE.

Political and social change are synergetic; each affects the other. Social pressure may compel a politician to employ his relatives in lucrative positions (or kick them out) while improved parking enforcement changes social behavior by persuading drivers not to park illegally.

It's always frustrating to talk to you, because every time I do, you always end up making some sort of comment that either contradicts your previous ones, or makes no logical sense whatsoever.

Try to be specific and maybe we can work through this.

 

[That Guy]

The revolutionists of the Enlightenment accomplished their task mostly by writing letters to organize. The internet makes this faster.

If you don't quit with the "Pakistan is no worse than any other country" meme you'll NEVER be able to solve your country's problems.

Should you even be considering my "selfishness" rather than thinking in terms of what your country needs?

Not making it a political issue is a choice. We have developed ways here in the U.S. to effectively deal with child molesters at the political level and there's no reason, other than choosing not to do so, that Pakistan can't do the same.

Political and social change are synergetic; each affects the other. Social pressure may compel a politician to employ his relatives in lucrative positions (or kick them out) while improved parking enforcement changes social behavior by persuading drivers not to park illegally.

Try to be specific and maybe we can work through this.

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about.

You're proven beyond a doubt that you're unreasonable to hold a debate, much less a conversation, with. You're basically dismissing all my points out of convenience by saying "quit it", so you don't have to answer them, or even more intellectually dishonest, purposefully misrepresenting my stance and then repeating your ridiculous comments.

I'm done here.

 

[That Guy]

lolz.. I try that with @Armstrong sometimes...

lol, dicking around with some strongly opinionated people can get extremely amusing, but be careful you don't **** any of the mods off. I've gotten warnings because of it.

 

[Solomon2]

See, this is exactly what I'm talking about. You're proven beyond a doubt that you're unreasonable to hold a debate, much less a conversation, with. You're basically dismissing all my points out of convenience by saying "quit it" -

The claim, "Pakistan is no worse than anyone else -", in addition to being wildly untrue, does absolutely nothing to solve the problem at hand. That's my answer. If you are upset that you can't answer this, does it have somehing to do with ME being "unreasonable" or with you insisting on being stubbornly wrong when faced with the facts?

even more intellectually dishonest, purposefully misrepresenting my stance

I'll apologize to you if you can convince me that I'm "misrepresenting your stance".

Yet I don't think that's happening. I consider people who mouth sympathy while doing nothing at all to alleviate matters they cluck about to be monsters.

So prove me wrong, at least to yourself! Consider: what will you do in the next 24 hours to try to effectively oppose the child gang-rape issue in Pakistan?

 

[That Guy]

The claim, "Pakistan is no worse than anyone else -", in addition to being wildly untrue, does absolutely nothing to solve the problem at hand. That's my answer. If you are upset that you can't answer this, does it have somehing to do with ME being "unreasonable" or with you insisting on being stubbornly wrong when faced with the facts?

I'll apologize to you if you can convince me that I'm "misrepresenting your stance".

Yet I don't think that's happening. I consider people who mouth sympathy while doing nothing at all to alleviate matters they cluck about to be monsters.

So prove me wrong, at least to yourself! Consider: what will you do in the next 24 hours to try to effectively oppose the child gang-rape issue in Pakistan?

It's not that I can't answer this, I'm frustrated at the fact that you're putting words into my mouth. Saying that this is a social issue that every country has dealt with is NOT the same as saying that Pakistan is no worse. For once in your life, use critical thinking.

All you're doing is trying to character assassinate me by attacking me personally, all the while pushing your own political views during a tragic event.

How about you consider the fact that I live in ******* CANADA? See, THIS is why I call you intellectually dishonest. You continue to ignore facts and keep pushing your own agenda.

 

[anonymus]

may be violent **** only .. even then it has been difficult to associate the two..
just check where the most rape happens .. and where most **** viewers are.. they are not same people.

Dude,

I have viewed every type of pörn ( at least those which are easily available) and could vouch that pörn has no co-relation with Rape and sexual abuse. Most of the unconventional pörn is so badly made that it is not arousing at all. It is more like watching documentary rather than pörn.

you want to compare effect of **** on a sex starved society vs. a society where sex is easily available. Lets imagine you going home with a big cake in your hand walking on a lonely street and you pass a group of guys coming out of a restaurant vs you meet few homeless guys ... will your fate be same

It has nothing to do with sex starvation.

Lack of control is more an indicator of bad upbringing in general rather and to some extent bad genetic makeup rathet than stimulation provided by environment.

Here is an experimental study to this effect.

Stanford marshmallow experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

All this is the gift of western cultures p0rn sites available at a click of mouse, other wise these things were unheard of till few years back in this part of world, just some cheap literature of mast ram type was available that too hardly ...

Classical leftist view.

" You are not responsible for your actions, it is always someone else's responsibility".

bull ... it has nothing to do with ****.. that too western **** ..
if anything you will start to hate to have sex with desi women after watching over glossed and unrealistically beautiful ladies .. @Alpha1

Beautiful women do not need to pursue career in Pörn.

Desis are ugly thats a fact, and it has nufing to do with ****!
Period

That is not true.

 

[Ayush]

this is sick..

 

[viper46]

Hmp. The proud angry young Pakistanis here all become silent when faced with the challenge of opposing "pure unadulterated evil". I suppose there aren't any really brave men left in Pakistan anymore, are there? It's all, "Blow up the mosques, burn the churches, rape the women, kill the reporters, and blame the victims, Indians, and Jews!"

look who is saying this an amerikanOOO ur thousands of troops doing this on daily basis idiot ... if u were the super power that does not mean that u r free from the charge of war crimes

seems like we have rape season started in asia well justice should be done on street

 

[xyxmt]

Dude,

I have viewed every type of pörn ( at least those which are easily available) and could vouch that pörn has no co-relation with Rape and sexual abuse. Most of the unconventional pörn is so badly made that it is not arousing at all. It is more like watching documentary rather than pörn.





It has nothing to do with sex starvation.

Lack of control is more an indicator of bad upbringing in general rather and to some extent bad genetic makeup rathet than stimulation provided by environment.

Here is an experimental study to this effect.

Stanford marshmallow experiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Classical leftist view.

" You are not responsible for your actions, it is always someone else's responsibility".





Beautiful women do not need to pursue career in Pörn.





That is not true.

lets not even talk about porns or sex, how about a lone woman walking on a street where 4 guys are hangin out..put this scenario to work in India or Pakistan then put the same scenario in Canada, Australia or France. where would the girl feel comfortable and I am not talking about rape or sex, just the comfort of a woman in this situation.

 

[Solomon2]

It's not that I can't answer this, I'm frustrated at the fact that you're putting words into my mouth. Saying that this is a social issue that every country has dealt with is NOT the same as saying that Pakistan is no worse.

Well, if you don't mean it as an excuse, what do you mean?

All you're doing is trying to character assassinate me by attacking me personally, all the while pushing your own political views during a tragic event.

I'm amazed that you don't see your own moral blindness, though I admit this blindness is disturbingly common among Pakistanis.

How about you consider the fact that I live in ******* CANADA?

Does that matter? You still THINK like a Pakistani and care enough to keep up-to-date on Pakistan affairs.

See, THIS is why I call you intellectually dishonest. You continue to ignore facts and keep pushing your own agenda.

Am I "ignoring facts" or evaluating irrelevant ones to be of no import when I make suggestions and judgments? If I'm wrong, simply point out what and why. If you can't do that, you have to consider that I might be right - and maybe you should change your mind accordingly.

look who is saying this an amerikanOOO ur thousands of troops doing this on daily basis idiot -

Mistaking wishes for facts is an all-too-common malady among Pakistanis. Even well-educated ones.

we have rape season started in asia

Then I suppose you're looking forward to the return of human slavery next. Abolition is, after all, an artifact of European colonialism, so why not? It isn't like you care enough about human rights to get your facts straight so why not suck up to evil and indulge yourself in forbidden pleasures?

 

[That Guy]

Well, if you don't mean it as an excuse, what do you mean?

I'm amazed that you don't see your own moral blindness, though I admit this blindness is disturbingly common among Pakistanis.

Does that matter? You still THINK like a Pakistani and care enough to keep up-to-date on Pakistan affairs.

Am I "ignoring facts" or evaluating irrelevant ones to be of no import when I make suggestions and judgments? If I'm wrong, simply point out what and why. If you can't do that, you have to consider that I might be right - and maybe you should change your mind accordingly.

First of all, I'm not trying to politicize a tragedy, nor am I the one pushing my views on other people, that person is YOU. So don't talk to me about being morally blind. I have never once claimed to be some sort of benevolent being, but to say that I'm morally blind? Have you no shame? Actually, I shouldn't even ask that, since it's clear that you do not. If you did, then you wouldn't be making such sweeping remarks about an entire population of people.

I have already pointed out where and why you're wrong, and I've already shown just how poor your logical thinking is. Why are you ignore this? You keep saying "show me proof", and when I do you prompt to ignore it and repeat yourself as if you are some sort of recording.

You're not only generalizing all Pakistanis in your narrow minded view, but you're pretending to know what sort of person I am, when you and I are complete strangers to each other. You don't know me and I don't know you, so don't presume to pass judgement on me based on your narrow sightedness. Morally blind? Please...

Have your last words, I'm going to ignore your replies from now on. The sheer amount of intellectual dishonesty on your part is disgusting and I will no longer take part in this conversation.

Good bye.