Kerala, Tamil Nadu face off over Mullaperiyar dam

[SpArK]

It was only after a thorough structural analysis of the dam that the SC ordered the height can be raised to 142 ft.

So please save us your 'structural' studies. You can accuse the TN engineers of being Fascist and dumb, but not when the SC itself has said it is structurally strong.



You forgot about the Kerala Nostradamuses..or is it Panikkars..that the dam will break and 45 lakhs will die. Cheap sensationalism @ the cost of facts.

Read the papers again SC permitted level is 136.

And i have already provided studies by institutions like IIT roorkie which says the structure is weak.



Oh yes the movie fear. Are u vaiko wannabe?

 

[Bhairava]

The SC judgement. Please don't call the Supreme Court as a Nazi organization paid by Tamil Nadu.

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF INDIA
Decided On: 27.02.2006
Mullaperiyar Environmental Protection Forum
v.
Union of India (UOI) and Ors.
Hon'ble Judges:
Y.K. Sabharwal, C.J., C.K. Thakker and P.K. Balasubramanyan, JJ.
JUDGMENT
Y.K. Sabharwal, C.J

Regarding the issue as to the safety of the dam on water level being raised to 142 ft.from the present level of 136 ft, the various reports have examined the safety angle in depth including the viewpoint of earthquake resistance.

* The apprehensions have beenfound to be baseless. In fact, the reports suggest an obstructionist attitude on the part of State of Kerala. The Expert Committee was comprised of independent officers. Seismic forces as per the provisions were taken into account and structural designs made accordingly while carrying out strengthening measures.

* The final report of the Committee, set up by Ministry of Water Resources, Government of India to study the water safety aspect of the dam and raising the water level has examined the matter in detail.

* The Chairman of the Committee was a Member (D&R) of Central Water Commission, two Chief Engineers of Central Water Commission, Director, dam safety, Government of Madhya Pradesh and retired Engineer-in-Chief, UP besides two representatives of Governments of Tamil Nadu and Kerala, were members of the Committee. All appended their signatures except the representative of the Kerala Government.

* The summary of results of stability analysis of Mullaperiyar Baby Dam contains note which shows that the permissible tensile strength was masonry as per the specifications mentioned therein based on test conducted by CSMRS, Delhi on the time and agreed by all Committee members including the Kerala representative in the meeting of the Committee held on 9-10th February, 2001. It also shows the various strengthening measures suggested by CWC having been completed by Tamil Nadu PWD on the dam including providing of RCC backing to the dam. The report also suggests that the parapet wall of the baby dam and main dam have been raised to 160 ft. (48.77 mt.) except for a 20 mt. stretch on the main dam due to denial of permission by the Government of Kerala.

*Some other works as stated therein were not allowed to be carried on by the State of Kerala.

* The report of CWC after inspection of main dam, the galleries, baby dam, earthen bund and spillway, concludes that the dam is safe and no excessive seepage is seen and that Mullaperiyar dam has been recently strengthened. There are no visible cracks that have occurred in the body of the dam and seepage measurements indicate no cracks in the upstream side of the dam.

* Our attention has also been drawn to various documents and drawings including cross-sections of the Periyar dam to demonstrate the strengthening measures.

* Further, it is pertinent to note that the dam immediately in line after Mullaperiyar dam is Idukki dam. It is the case of State of Kerala that despite the 'copious rain', the Idukki reservoir is not filled to its capacity, while the capacity of reservoir is 70.500 TMC, it was filled only to the extent of 57.365 TMC. This also shows that assuming the worst happens, more than 11 TMC water would be taken by Idukki dam.

*The Deputy Director, Dam Safety, Monitoring Directorate, Central Water Commission, Ministry of Water Resources in affidavit of April 2004 has, inter alia, sated that during the recent earthquake mentioned by Kerala Government in its affidavit, no damage to the dam was reported by CWC officers who inspected the dam. The experts having reported about the safety of the dam and the Kerala Government having adopted an obstructionist approach, cannot now be permitted to take shelter under the plea that these are disputed questions of fact. There is no report to suggest that the safety of the dam would be jeopardized if the water level is raised for the present to 142 ft. The report is to the contrary

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Cross posting from another fora...credit to Arul Murugan.

I have posted the SC judgement again! But our dear Kerala members are keep repeating the following 7 points again and again.

1. Dam is made of mud, built 100years ago and its life is over.. So it will break. KL theory

The strengthening of the dam has been carried out as per CWC experts advice and norms. So stop fooling around as if the dam was never strengthened and still it remains like it was built in 1895. If the CWC experts after inspection have clearly mentioned the dam is safe in SC's judgement 2006. It is more or less like a new dam.

And there are many dam which has surpased 100years and periodic strengthening has been carried out. Dam are not apartments to demolish and rebuild every 60-70years. Even Idukki dam will not be demolished by 2070, it will be strengthened to with stand next 100 or 200 years or further seeing the condition.

2. Dam was built with age old technology.. KL theory

Yes it was build with age old technology, but during strengthening enough care has been taken care as per CWC experts. The strengthening got completed 28yrs later Idukki dam opening, so the experts are bound to use latest technology. And they have clearly mentioned about their consideration of earth quake effect on construction/stenghthening. So again this another false theory.

Considering above two, the dam is as new as Idukki or other dams in Kerala.

3. IIT report - dam is not safe!! KL theory

And here comes the conflict. When CWC says it is safe and IIT says it on fault line and not safe. One of the IIT, I guess rourkee has submited reports on other dams which was certified as safe got leake and damage.. luckily no lives lost.. refer N.kumar post. With this I am not telling IIT rourkee is fraud, just want to tell for Kerala IIT report is bible and for TN CWC report is bible. May be to solve this some white skinned experts can be brought in.. but the analysis report will be in favor depending on which gvt can bribe them heavily.

4. Due to earth quake - dam will break

The CWC committee has clearing mentioned, this point has been taken care during strengthening. When the dam stays as new as Idukki dam, why you guys bother about Mullai periyar dam. I hope no such sad incidents happens, but just for argument case when you guys are saying periyar dam will collapse because of EQ, will not Idukki have chance to collapse??, ? And I repeat I hope no such sad incidents happens ever. And the answer for this from you guys would, no mullai periyar is mud and 100years old dam. Please go to point no. 1/2/3 again. Again it is a false theory that periyar dam alone will collapse.

5. If dam collapse - 33lakhs people will be washed way - KL theory

It is well know that the dam is in valley and river flows in valley and people settlement are above i.e on both the sides of valley. Let us assume only Mullai periyar dam breaks as per you people wishes and Idukki dams stays very safe. The flood water will take 4 hrs to reach Idukki dam considering the velocity and distance. Please refer the video for reference!! This river runs in valley and not in plains, so river banks will be at raised level compared to broad plain rivers like Cauvery/Godavari etc., the flood water will run within the banks and will reach the Idukki dam in 4hrs safely w.o disturbing the people around. Then how come 33lakhs people will be washed away??? Another fear mongering false theory just to get attention! And idukki is storing only 59-60TMC water, but Periyar dam capacity is 15TMC, even if 10TMC water is released by KL PWD officers in 4hrs, the water from Periyar collapse can be easily added to it.

Or you guys spreading information that Idukki dam collapse will wash away 33lakhs people?? And I repeat I hope no such sad incidents happens ever.

6. We will build new dam and give water to TN-KL theory

Again please see the video, as per hydrology and gradient around the valley the new dam location cannot supply any water to TN. Only present location of dam can only provide water to TN. So when the dam is going to be safe and also not going to get damaged due to earth quake, the whole idea of demolishing the dam and building the new dam is not give any water to TN so that south TN can be converted to Sahara desert with this tactics. (b/w even this hype like you guys make 33lakhs people will be washed away).. but agriculture will collapse in 4 districts of south TN for sure. So new dam will provide water to TN is another false theory.

7. 999yrs agreement illogical and TN gvt should not own the dam - KL theory

IMHO 999yrs agreement looks illogical also TN operating/owning the dam, but when states like TN are betrayed by all neighboring state in water sharing and cheated by central gvt in drawing state boundaries in the name of national integration, patriotism etc., we are forced to support this 999yrs agreement and for us it sounds very logical. And also 999yrs does not mean the dam age! And also it does not mean that dam age should be 90yrs as you guys project! I am repeating again.. pls search for no. of dams that got strenghthened and surpassed 100yrs and also Idukki will not be demolished by 2060 even that will undergo strenghthening only.

 

[Bhairava]

Read the papers again SC permitted level is 136.

And i have already provided studies by institutions like IIT roorkie which says the structure is weak.

Oh yes the movie fear. Are u vaiko wannabe?

Booo..Read my previous post. Busts all your cheap sensationalist,mass hysteria driven propaganda.

 

[SpArK]

The SC judgement. Please don't call the Supreme Court as a Nazi organization paid by Tamil Nadu.



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Cross posting from another fora...credit to Arul Murugan.

That means u have not moved away from 6 year back verdict.

The tremors and leaks have made SC to form a new panel and their studies have been published.

The dam is controlled by TN. It was obvious why the level never was allowed to get 142 even after that 2006 SC ruling.


And regarding strengthening .. i can only LOL... we all know how much a mud build dam can be strengthened.

1886 new technology... oh yes... we should build all new dams using limestone surki.

Dam is safe.. yes... cracks and spillage means nothing

Yes no tremors are happening... and its safer and can be controlled.

another point is idukki will acoomodate all water... yes if the water in idukki present just vanishes in thin air.


Seriously this has to be the most stupid arguments i have ever seen in forums as of yet.

---------- Post added at 01:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:24 PM ----------

Booo..Read my previous post. Busts all your cheap sensationalist,mass hysteria driven propaganda.

All u repeat is sensationalism and mass hysteria..

what will u do if ur life is under threat... no hysteria??? calmness???

 

[Subramanian]

can some independent agency give a proper judgement on the strength of the dam?

and TN govt should start preparing its people to be more self sufficient in their vocations and lifestyle,cant be dependent forever.

 

[Bhairava]

nvm........no use.

 

[Subramanian]

But Sparky,

TN Govt may be stupid and crazy but the buereaucrats are the best there are around.I doubt if they would be sleeping on such a crazy likely disaster if it was probable.

 

[Bhairava]

can some independent agency give a proper judgement on the strength of the dam?

and TN govt should start preparing its people to be more self sufficient in their vocations and lifestyle,cant be dependent forever.

Da, Supreme court appointed panel of scientists and the CWC have already made it very clear that the dam is not the same one as built by the British and has been strengthened adequately by the Tamil Nadu Govt in view of its safety concerns. I have posted the short points of the judgement in post # 287.

If there was a genuine threat I will not think twice in supporting their position. But this seems like a small concern hyper-inflated into a MAD scenario by the politicians.

 

[SpArK]

But Sparky,

TN Govt may be stupid and crazy but the buereaucrats are the best there are around.I doubt if they would be sleeping on such a crazy likely disaster if it was probable.

Eventhough we were sleeping all along even when there was issue of the safety for more than decades.

Only until the structural damages came open and the tremors started to occur regularly , we made the issue "sensationalist" as our friend said.

We all know what would have happened to the dam if u guys were in the situation as we are.

Think of this a dam completly in TN, rivers flowing in completly inside TN, bound by a deal before independence would it stand as it is like ????

Usually dams with limestone are build by making it blocks as to repair but the mullaperiyar is made using quarry stones and limestones not as blocks but as a single entity.Hence the impact of a breach will be disastrous.

 

[Bhairava]

Eventhough we were sleeping all along even when there was issue of the safety for more than decades.

Only until the structural damages came open and the tremors started to occur regularly , we made the issue "sensationalist" as our friend said.

We all know what would have happened to the dam if u guys were in the situation as we are.

Think of this a dam completly in TN, rivers flowing in completly inside TN, bound by a deal before independence would it stand as it is like ????

Usually dams with limestone are build by making it blocks as to repair but the mullaperiyar is made using quarry stones and limestones not as blocks but as a single entity.Hence the impact of a breach will be disastrous.

Same old ..same old..."think about us", " what would have done ?".

Why don't you factually rebut the each of the arguments provided in the SC judgement. I will accept my defeat gracefully.

Am I asking too much for you to debunk the scientific arguments given ?

 

[Subramanian]

TY,

Well,now i feel this is just a tactic to get more money from TN.And Technology is no guarantee for succes of any dam.Structural engg is an art and the strength of a structure depends more upon the natural conditions rather than some new *** tech.

Basically,all new developments in Technology just help you monitor and predict the disaster in advance,other wise building any structure is always good old stress-strain stuff,there is no rocket science here.

 

[SpArK]

The dam is build with limestone and each year 30.48 tones just dissolves and wash away.

As per the report given to SC already 42 percent of it has washed away.

The total "sunnammbu' or lime used is 6807 metric tonnes and from 1895 to 2006 3412 metric tonne has been lost. TN has made plasters as maintenance using 542 metric tonnes of cement.

 

[Subramanian]

Eventhough we were sleeping all along even when there was issue of the safety for more than decades.

Only until the structural damages came open and the tremors started to occur regularly , we made the issue "sensationalist" as our friend said.

We all know what would have happened to the dam if u guys were in the situation as we are.

Think of this a dam completly in TN, rivers flowing in completly inside TN, bound by a deal before independence would it stand as it is like ????

Usually dams with limestone are build by making it blocks as to repair but the mullaperiyar is made using quarry stones and limestones not as blocks but as a single entity.Hence the impact of a breach will be disastrous.

Still,Sparky how can u go against something like CWC?They have some crazy good engineers and experts.

 

[SpArK]

At the time construction the builders recommended a new dam by 1960's.

The fact that due to the age the dam has even moved almost a feet forward after withstanding double the proposed age.

Good fate of people maybe behind the survival of the dam and also due to british engineering.

---------- Post added at 01:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:46 PM ----------

Still,Sparky how can u go against something like CWC?They have some crazy good engineers and experts.

You do know how things run around in our country and u must be also knowing that a new study is going on.

If u follow news the politicians also say its as good as new .... well is that believable too??

 

[Bhairava]

Still no factual rebuttals to the scientific arguments given by the CWC and the SC when they said there is no threat to the Mullai Periyar dam.

All the excuses of fascist mindset, criminal negligence, Tamil Nadu paying kerala journalists & bloggers, Supreme court & CWC being a Tamil Nadu mouth piece are given and yet there is not a single scientific denial of facts.

Yeah the whole India is out to get Kerala & Kerala politicians can never be wrong