Kemalism is dead, but not Ataturk

[BronzePlaque]

Well, Since the CHP is no longer in power...

CHP was never in "power" since 1974..And in 1974 it was a coalition government, so even then they were not in power..So basically the last time CHP was truly in power was in 1950..

 

[Selim I]

There is no such thing as Kemalism to me (the same way I dont call AKP voters Islamists/or Allahists) its not about a person but the idea and that idea is secularism and secularism is not dead.

Allahists? That's the new term of people who believes in God?

Then you must be Kafirist.

 

[Luffy 500]

Thats where you fail. He is not the reason for what Turkey is today. Ottoman Turkey,unlike many other muslim-majority countries,didnt fall into the hands of colonial powers. It was divided and destroyed but the institutions was right there. Ottoman Turkey had a long history of parliamentarism. When the first parliament established Mustafa Kemal was not even a vitamin in orange. Its the institutions who make nations progressive not a personality cult.

Then why do you guys blindly support Mustafa Kemal?(not talking about my compatriots but foreigners,especially Indians)

The answer is: Because Kemal was a militant laicist and he fought against everything represents and even evokes Islam.

Finally,i can say that Kemal is the founder of our republic. So he may stay as a respectable person but only if his supporters leave him in the past. Because Kemal's ideology and his positivist thinking is over. We(the majority) dont want that kind of mentality anymore.

You can't argue with him bro. He is an Indian who are allergic to words muslim and Islam. They just can't stand the word
Caliph.

There is no such thing as Kemalism to me (the same way I dont call AKP voters Islamists/or Allahists) its not about a person but the idea and that idea is secularism and secularism is not dead.

What does that word mean?

 

[Luffy 500]

Well, Since the CHP is no longer in power...

Well fact that CHP never won a democraically free and fair election is true isn't it? It was only Adnan Menderes form 1950-1960,
Necmettin Erbakan form 1996-1997 and now Mr. Erdogan for 10 years straight, who were democratically elected. The rest of
the time turkey was ruled by secular Military dictators. It goes to show that given a choice turks will always choose to
go back to their Islamic roots and abhor secular european norms. Its natural isn't it. I hope that AKP can permanently take out turkey from kelamist clutches and make it a strong powerful nation again.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Sevap almak için içeriz şarap
İçmezsek oluruz düçar-ı azap
Senin aklın ermez bu başka hesap
Meyhanede bulduk biz bu kemali.

Kandil geceleri kandil oluruz
Kandilin içinde fitil oluruz
Hakkı göstermeye delil oluruz
Fakat kör olanlar görmez bu hali.

Sen münkirsin sana haramdır bade
Bekle ki içesin öbür dünyada
Bahs açma Harab-i bundan ziyade
Çünkü bilmez haram ile helali.

Secularists are using Bektashi poets to Clear their sins. Instead of giving money to alcohol, save it. Do something better for yourself or community. But that thought needs a developed brain. Most dont have it.

Why not compare Kemalism with Ottomans?

What is Kemalism?

If it is secularism and irreligiosity, sorry i dont like it.

If it is full independence, i like it.

 

[Killuminati]

Please show some gratitude and respect for AKP because they brought success and prosperity to Turkey. I remember that Turkey was going bankrupt 15 years ago. AKP brought Turkey out of its Financial and Economic doldrums.

I dont have any respect for AKP because i know what they are. They where financied by Jewish lobbies and far before that a CIA station chief told that they where planning to bring Tayyip and Gul instead of Erbakan. And so happend. MHP was the one that made emergency packet to fix to economy but right after that there was elections and AKP got the power and bring the packet of MHP alive and stabilized the economy. After that the only thing that AKP did was selling eveything to western countries and some arap countries. You know that there is more than 200 miljard dollar hot money around Turkey?

Man so many things that AKP do wrong. Thanks to AKP America and Europe could invase Iraq. And now Turkey do everything for NATO so NATO can go in Libya, Syria and after that the target is Iran. This is how dirty politics going on in Turkey. But most people only believe what they see on TV without even studying their own history and how things happen.

You really think Europe left the SEVR? Ofcourse not, they still do everything to make SEVR alive. Thats the mission of the zionists. AKP full supports the PKK and Barzani for a federal government for kurds and after that a indepented kurdish state.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I dont have any respect for AKP because i know what they are. They where financied by Jewish lobbies and far before that a CIA station chief told that they where planning to bring Tayyip and Gul instead of Erbakan. And so happend. MHP was the one that made emergency packet to fix to economy but right after that there was elections and AKP got the power and bring the packet of MHP alive and stabilized the economy. After that the only thing that AKP did was selling eveything to western countries and some arap countries. You know that there is more than 200 miljard dollar hot money around Turkey?

Man so many things that AKP do wrong. Thanks to AKP America and Europe could invase Iraq. And now Turkey do everything for NATO so NATO can go in Libya, Syria and after that the target is Iran. This is how dirty politics going on in Turkey. But most people only believe what they see on TV without even studying their own history and how things happen.

You really think Europe left the SEVR? Ofcourse not, they still do everything to make SEVR alive. Thats the mission of the zionists. AKP full supports the PKK and Barzani for a federal government for kurds and after that a indepented kurdish state.

I'm sorry dude, but there is not a single factuality to your points whatsoever. Nothing you have written above can be proven by a single document. So spare us your conspiracies will ya...

 

[BordoEnes]

CHP was never in "power" since 1974..And in 1974 it was a coalition government, so even then they were not in power..So basically the last time CHP was truly in power was in 1950..

Perhaps you misunderstood me, CHP was always in power. They where backed by the Army which rulled the Land with Iron fist. CHP and the Army are basicly one being. But after Civilian Goverment of AKP that no longer is the case...

I dont have any respect for AKP because i know what they are. They where financied by Jewish lobbies and far before that a CIA station chief told that they where planning to bring Tayyip and Gul instead of Erbakan. And so happend. MHP was the one that made emergency packet to fix to economy but right after that there was elections and AKP got the power and bring the packet of MHP alive and stabilized the economy. After that the only thing that AKP did was selling eveything to western countries and some arap countries. You know that there is more than 200 miljard dollar hot money around Turkey?

Man so many things that AKP do wrong. Thanks to AKP America and Europe could invase Iraq. And now Turkey do everything for NATO so NATO can go in Libya, Syria and after that the target is Iran. This is how dirty politics going on in Turkey. But most people only believe what they see on TV without even studying their own history and how things happen.

You really think Europe left the SEVR? Ofcourse not, they still do everything to make SEVR alive. Thats the mission of the zionists. AKP full supports the PKK and Barzani for a federal government for kurds and after that a indepented kurdish state.

And yet after all these bullscrap points, AKP was the best thing that happend to Turkey. If AKP is 'Wrong' then god only knows what the hell is 'Good' in that sick minds of yours. Btw this is a serious forum, Dont ruin it by posting thread full with propaganda please.

 

[what]

Allahists? That's the new term of people who believes in God?

Then you must be Kafirist.

I made a joke, but as always I forgot that conservative people don't understand jokes.

Kafirist sounds cool, would make a awesome username.

 

[what]

Perhaps you misunderstood me, CHP was always in power. They where backed by the Army which rulled the Land with Iron fist. CHP and the Army are basicly one being. But after Civilian Goverment of AKP that no longer is the case...

Could you tell me then why the CHP was banned after the 80s coup? Does that make sense to you?

Perhaps you misunderstood me, CHP was always in power. They where backed by the Army which rulled the Land with Iron fist. CHP and the Army are basicly one being. But after Civilian Goverment of AKP that no longer is the case...

Could you tell me then why the CHP was banned after the 80s coup? Does that make sense to you?

 

[Zulkarneyn]

I made a joke, but as always I forgot that conservative people don't understand jokes.

Kafirist sounds cool, would make a awesome username.

What is with you and labelling people? you label some allahists, some conservative etc etc.

And for your information, there is a limit between joke and mud throwing. You are intentionally throwing mud at religious people by calling them "Allahists" whereas a joke would be a completely different thing. And i believe you are aware of the fact that religous people are sensitive about their beliefs. They expect a certain amount of respect, i don't know if you have ever acted acording to respects in your life. But in forums like these there are certain lines you should not cross.

 

[Armstrong]

I made a joke, but as always I forgot that conservative people don't understand jokes.

Kafirist sounds cool, would make a awesome username.

You know we've got a 'people' in the Northern Areas of Pakistan who still follow the pagan-animist faith of their fore-fathers - We call them 'the Kafirs' and their land 'Kafristan' i.e 'the Unbelievers' and 'the land of the Unbelievers', respectively ! Just a little 'Trivia' !

I dont have any respect for AKP because i know what they are. They where financied by Jewish lobbies and far before that a CIA station chief told that they where planning to bring Tayyip and Gul instead of Erbakan. And so happend. MHP was the one that made emergency packet to fix to economy but right after that there was elections and AKP got the power and bring the packet of MHP alive and stabilized the economy. After that the only thing that AKP did was selling eveything to western countries and some arap countries. You know that there is more than 200 miljard dollar hot money around Turkey?

Man so many things that AKP do wrong. Thanks to AKP America and Europe could invase Iraq. And now Turkey do everything for NATO so NATO can go in Libya, Syria and after that the target is Iran. This is how dirty politics going on in Turkey. But most people only believe what they see on TV without even studying their own history and how things happen.

You really think Europe left the SEVR? Ofcourse not, they still do everything to make SEVR alive. Thats the mission of the zionists. AKP full supports the PKK and Barzani for a federal government for kurds and after that a indepented kurdish state.

]

You have no idea what I'd give for an 'Edrogan' to lead Pakistan right now !

 

[BordoEnes]

Could you tell me then why the CHP was banned after the 80s coup? Does that make sense to you?

On 7 September 1980, Evren and the four service commanders decided that they would overthrow the civilian government. On September 12, the National Security Council (Turkish: Milli Güvenlik Kurulu, MGK), headed by Evren declared coup d'état on the national channel. The MGK then extended martial law throughout the country, abolished the Parliament and the government, suspended the Constitution and banned all political parties and trade unions. They invoked the Kemalist tradition of state secularism and in the unity of the nation, which had already justified the precedent coups, and presented themselves as opposed to communism, fascism, separatism and religious sectarianism. Sourche: Wikipedia

As you can see all Parties where banned, Not only CHP...

 

[BronzePlaque]

Unfortunately, Turks never accept to meet in the middle ground..We always label AKP voters as evil Islamists who want to destroy everything related to Ataturk, and again, we always label Kemalists as status quoists who are not open to progress and so on..I really find this situation hard to understand..

I am an AKP voter who labels himself as Kemalist..These 2 things are not contradictive, at least thats what i believe

 

[BronzePlaque]

Thanks to AKP America and Europe could invase Iraq.

Could you elaborate this for us? How is AKP involved in invasion of Iraq? an article i found interesting:

1.Turkey is being bitterly criticized in the US for failing to allow us combat troops to use Turkey as a launching pad to open a second front in northern Iraq. There are indeed some who say US and British soldiers are dying in higher numbers because of Turkey. How would you respond to such claims and how would you evaluate Turkey's stand so far. Was it an accidental no in the parliament or did it reflect a coming of age of Turkish democracy?

The criticism of Turkey in the US is indeed bitter, and extremely revealing. The Turkish government took the position of over 90 percent of the population. That reveals that the government lacks "democratic credentials," according to former Ambassador Morris Abramowitz, now a distinguished elder statesman. The government is "following the people," he wrote, instead of following orders from Washington and Crawford Texas. That is plainly unacceptable. The view he articulates is standard.

Turkey taught the US a lesson in democracy. That is regarded as criminal. One can debate the reasons and the background, but the facts are glaringly obvious, underscored even more dramatically by the reaction in the US to similar crimes elsewhere. Germany and France are bitterly condemned for the same reason, while Italy, Spain, Hungary and others are praised as the "New Europe," because their leaders agreed to follow US orders in opposition to the vast majority of the population, almost as much as in Turkey.

I do not recall ever having seen such demonstration of intense hatred for democracy on the part of elite opinion in the US (and to some extent Britain).

ZCommunications | Turkey and The US War On Iraq by Noam Chomsky | ZNet Article