Kashmiris concerned by plans for Hindu satellite cities

[Mr.S.Singh]

That is untrue.

Sadly no stats are there too hint on any conclusion

 

[Chak Bamu]

Let's discuss article 257 of Pakistan because article 370 comes after 257 in All constitutions

No need. You are not worth my time. I've told you all that was needed. But you are not capable of feeling embarrassed.

 

[Screambowl]

Both Indian gov and Pakistani gov forked up in Kashmir.


PCK Kashmiris seek protection from Pak army.

Hope you understand.

That is wrong, because article 257 of Pakistan does not allow that. That's what I am saying.

 

[scorpionx]

And I am saying that there is not just Military threat but also demography threat. Both instrument of accession and article 257 of Pakistan promotes plebiscite in kashmir.

Article 257 of Pakistan also says that without the will of Kashmiris, Pakistan cannot define what kind of relations they will pursue with Kashmir. But Pakistan has overruled their article 257 of Pakistani Constitution by deploying Military.

Kindly look into the constitution of AJK. The term "state subject" has clearly been specified. Now who are the subjects of state? State subject is the person living in Jammu and Kashmir or Pakistan as defined by the late government of the state of Jammu and Kashmir Notification No.I-L/84 dated 20th April,1927.
Now kindly read what Maharaja Hari Singh had told us about the definition of state subject. If Pakistan Controlled Kashmir abides by his definition then there is no scope for demographic change on the other side of the state too.

 

[Chak Bamu]

Sadly no stats are there too hint on any conclusion

That means you can cook up any 'fact', because you think that it can not be verified?

 

[FaujHistorian]

alas, easy for some people to fight for land, when our land has been split up, i guess every community goes through their test of times, and the way sikhs are going, soon Canada will be named punjab

Haha. I have visited Brampton area near Toronto.

you are so right. Local grocery shops, schools, markets are all dominated by Sikh community.

And Oh by the way they are lively and lot more tolerant and open when it comes to religious mumbo jumbo.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Both Indian gov and Pakistani gov forked up in Kashmir.

Even now indian army can pull out of Kashmir, and you will see that ICK Kashmiris will protest daily until Pakistani army pulls out. However when ICK Kashmiris are mistrusted by Indian gov
PCK Kashmiris seek protection from Pak army.

Hope you understand.

The fear of IA pulling out of populated area's are instability
J&K police have failed to bring the situation under control
What people don't understand is every operation in civilian population is a joint operation between J&K and army

 

[Screambowl]

@Chak Bamu @scorpionx
The article 257 states that no Military, foreign or any relation can be established without the plebiscite, but Pakistan military is deployed there by overruling their own constitution. This also proves, when such big laws can be ignored, demographic changes are possible in Azad Kashmir(PcK)

 

[FaujHistorian]

That is wrong, because article 257 of Pakistan does not allow that. That's what I am saying.

OK mate. you are on PDF

What would you suggest. I mean let us allow cat to come out of the bag.

Why to beat around the bush.

Thank you

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

That means you can cook up any 'fact', because you think that it can not be verified?

that means sir, in a country that was Hindu majority, it is quite difficult to point out how large population converted to Islam,
When they use to do peacefull conversion pre-mughal era, they would seldom be attacked, same with Christianity

 

[FaujHistorian]

The fear of IA pulling out of populated area's are instability
J&K police have failed to bring the situation under control
What people don't understand is every operation in civilian population is a joint operation between J&K and army

Yes. This has been the routine in the past.

Hope we all who were born long after the dark days of 1947,
Those who were born after the communal savagery, and ethnic cleansing
Yes. you and I would let the old hate go and think about the shared values and peace and harmony.

that means sir, in a country that was Hindu majority, it is quite difficult to point out how large population converted to Islam,
When they use to do peacefull conversion pre-mughal era, they would seldom be attacked, same with Christianity

I don't think Sikh Gurus especially Guru Nanak Sahib ever used the language about common Muslims (in Kashmir and Punjab) the way it is used now.

Peace

 

[Screambowl]

OK mate. you are on PDF

What would you suggest. I mean let us allow cat to come out of the bag.

Why to beat around the bush.

Thank you

Pakistan should follow their constitution article 257

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

Yes. This has been the routine in the past.

Hope we all who were born long after the dark days of 1947,
Those who were born after the communal savagery, and ethnic cleansing
Yes. you and I would let the old hate go and think about the shared values and peace and harmony.




I don't think Sikh Gurus especially Guru Nanak Sahib ever used the language about common Muslims (in Kashmir and Punjab) the way it is used now.

Peace

Musharraf and manmohan had the best and most workable formula, is still don't get it ... why not sign ??
We both know, neither India nor Pakistan won't budge an inch, joint- governance is the only solution

I don't think Sikh Gurus especially Guru Nanak Sahib ever used the language about common Muslims (in Kashmir and Punjab) the way it is used now.

Peace

Sikhs and muslims lived side by side peacefully, even during the mughal era it was the rulers they fought not the common man/muslim

the bitter blood arised during partition, even the fight for independence was fought together in punjab(atleast)

 

[Chak Bamu]

that means sir, in a country that was Hindu majority, it is quite difficult to point out how large population converted to Islam,
When they use to do peacefull conversion pre-mughal era, they would seldom be attacked, same with Christianity

The conversion in Punjab and Bengal was peaceful my friend. Pashtuns converted before Punjabis. Sindh had significant and ever-expanding Muslim population since 7th century. It is not difficult to see how Hindus converted to Islam. My ancestors did so about 250 years ago, when Mughals no longer ruled Punjab.

It is hard for you to come to terms with this issue. Emotions are not going to help you understand this.

I see so much obfuscation of history from Indians that I despair sometimes. You seem to imply that Mughals force-converted people en-masse; and that such was not the case during Sultanate of Delhi's rule. Now just how you can support this contention? I am not sure you can do that. Bring on the references, but not religious or Hindutva sources.

 

[FaujHistorian]

.....
Sikhs and muslims lived side by side peacefully, even during the mughal era it was the rulers they fought not the common man/muslim

the bitter blood arised during partition, even the fight for independence was fought together in punjab(atleast)

Yes that's true. It is now time to move beyond the dark days of 1947 and focus on future.

It is now time that Sikh intellectuals again pick up the heavy burden of protecting Muslims and Hindus,
not by sword (mind you)
but
with their shared love of soil.

peace

p.s. the same suggestion applies to Hindu and Muslim intellectuals

that means sir, in a country that was Hindu majority, it is quite difficult to point out how large population converted to Islam,
When they use to do peacefull conversion pre-mughal era, they would seldom be attacked, same with Christianity

Conversion is always a sensitive issue.

Digging deep into stories and histories of bygone centuries is tough, very tough.

However Sikhs have the most recent history of the three major religions.

Now tell me if Sikhism too expanded during Moghal era.

And if it did

How much sword was used on local Hindus vs. how much love by Gurua Sahban.

please let us know.


p.s. Off course I am aware of the dark period during Aurungzeb. But we must look at the big picture