Kashmiris concerned by plans for Hindu satellite cities

[Mr.S.Singh]

The conversion in Punjab and Bengal was peaceful my friend. Pashtuns converted before Punjabis. Sindh had significant and ever-expanding Muslim population since 7th century. It is not difficult to see how Hindus converted to Islam. My ancestors did so about 250 years ago, when Mughals no longer ruled Punjab.

It is hard for you to come to terms with this issue. Emotions are not going to help you understand this.

I see so much obfuscation of history from Indians that I despair sometimes. You seem to imply that Mughals force-converted people en-masse; and that such was not the case during Sultanate of Delhi's rule. Now just how you can support this contention? I am not sure you can do that. Bring on the references, but not religious or Hindutva sources.

Here is the problem, there were peaceful conersion, yes but the extent was quite small
Again, most reference are religious, half of my religious leaders died because they refused forceful conversion by mughals
The history is written with such texts, some highlighted are Kashmiri pandits and conversion and how they came knocking at sikh empire Guru tegh Bahadur. Sadly most of the writers are hindu's and sikhs which would stand the testimony here

Conversion is always a sensitive issue.

Digging deep into stories and histories of bygone centuries is tough, very tough.

However Sikhs have the most recent history of the three major religions.

Now tell me if Sikhism too expanded during Moghal era.

And if it did

How much sword was used on local Hindus vs. how much love by Gurua Sahban.

please let us know.


p.s. Off course I am aware of the dark period during Aurungzeb. But we must look at the big picture

Even sikhs during the peaceful years were opposed, conversion into sikhism was looked down upon from Guru Nanak era,

during the mughal era, mughals tried to stop conversion to sikhism
guru were slaughtered, and sikhs who converted were beheaded

During the sikhs it was mughals
During spread of islam it has Hindu leaders
situations changed

Yes that's true. It is now time to move beyond the dark days of 1947 and focus on future.
It is now time that Sikh intellectuals again pick up the heavy burden of protecting Muslims and Hindus,
not by sword (mind you)
but
with their shared love of soil.
peace
p.s. the same suggestion applies to Hindu and Muslim intellectuals

The fight has shifted from ideology to concept of nations. Solutions are simple but egos are big

 

[FaujHistorian]

Here is the problem, there were peaceful conersion, yes but the extent was quite small
Again, most reference are religious, half of my religious leaders died because they refused forceful conversion by mughals
The history is written with such texts, some highlighted are Kashmiri pandits and conversion and how they came knocking at sikh empire Guru tegh Bahadur. Sadly most of the writers are hindu's and sikhs which would stand the testimony here



Even sikhs during the peaceful years were opposed, conversion into sikhism was looked down upon from Guru Nanak era, during the mughal era, mughals tried to stop conversion to sikhism
guru were slaughtered, and sikhs who converted were beheaded

During the sikhs it was mughals
During spread of islam it has Hindu leaders
power always lays with the rulers, situations changed

I may be ignorant of the details.

But Moghal started targeting Sikh Gurus when gurus started playing a role in politics. When gurus supported one Moghal prince against the other.

Case in point. Moghal prince Dara Shikoh. Why?

Dara was a direct threat to Aurangzeb. and Dara was put to death.

and based on my readings Guru Tegh Bahadur supported the princes who opposed Aurangzeb during the war of Moghal succession.

Thus the whole fiasco was political and not religious.

peace

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

@FaujHistorian @Chak Bamu

If India and Pakistan want to settle their disputes, now is the write time
few decades later it will be impossible, the generation then would have no link to each others country, making it an emotionless issue for them, then it would be extremely difficult to even sit on a table and discuss the issue

both the countries have lost decades, if time slip by, i see a darker future ahead

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

I may be ignorant of the details.

But Moghal started targeting Sikh Gurus when gurus started playing a role in politics. When gurus supported one Moghal prince against the other.

Case in point. Moghal prince Dara Shikoh. Why?

No sir, it started before that, basically it was to crub spread of Sikhism, guru nanak faced stiff opposition
and it continued from them to other guru's

as for Dara vs Aurangzeb, which one would you have supported ?

this might be interesting to you Guru Nanak in Mecca - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.
Guru nanaks visit to mecca

 

[Joe Shearer]

Lol no they were Punjabis who settled in Jammu after leaving Western Punjab, Sikh empire was long gone that is not a valid excuse or else Pakistani Punjabis would openly settle as well based on the same logic.

They did. Now don't get me started on ethnic analysis and social history. I'm sick of this thread, sick of that moronic Hindi-speaking pinhead, and sick of childish attempts to conceal evident and obvious lack of knowledge and lack of information.

LMaooo 100 million!! Basically more than 50% of the Bangladeshis are no longer in their own country?

OUCH!

Sir, your belief that Instrument of accession as signed by Maharaja Hari Singh is the legal basis for India's claim over Kashmir has been invalidated by several legal scholars before. Many scholars while believe that Kashmir should be part of India on ground of instrument of accession, their counter theorists quote the letter attached to the Instrument by Hari Singh himself where he said it will be the people of Kashmir who would have the final say about accession when the military threat is resolved.
Let me clear the fact, that Kashmir will never be given complete Independence by any of the countries;But on paper, if we Indians want to make our own case full proof we have to go for plebiscite. This is why Pakistan never needed an article 370, because their was no paper of accession to them.

Let's not go over dozed with ultra nationalistic jingoism here and discuss the matter with facts rationally.

Perfectly correct.

This was also Mountbatten's insistence.

Mughal empire rant is history of Islam coming into India, basically your faith coming into south asia



as a religion yes, but it spread rapidly under mughal rule

That is incorrect. This statement applies only to Bengal. For reasons, consult Eaton.

 

[FaujHistorian]

No sir, it started before [Guru Tegh Bahadur sahib]... ,

That's correct. I should have mentioned Jehangir vs. Khusrau tussle for emprorship and how guru Arjan sahib got pulled into that tussle.

as for Dara vs Aurangzeb, which one would you have supported ?

Good question. We pay for (or get rewarded for) our decisions in life. Don't we?

.
this might be interesting to you Guru Nanak in Mecca - SikhiWiki, free Sikh encyclopedia.
Guru nanaks visit to mecca

That's the spirit, that's the view as of Guru and Sufi Nanak sahib that we all need even today.

thanks for sharing the link.

peace

 

[Screambowl]

The fear of IA pulling out of populated area's are instability
J&K police have failed to bring the situation under control
What people don't understand is every operation in civilian population is a joint operation between J&K and army

why should IA leave that region? We are not there Illegally, like Pakistan is in Azad Kashmir. They are not following their own constitution and artcile 275 of it which does not allow any Military to be deployed in Kashmir.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

why should IA leave that region? We are not there Illegally, like Pakistan is in Azad Kashmir. They are not following their own constitution and artcile 275 of it which does not allow any Military to be deployed in Kashmir.

IA leaving civilian population, focus on Border deployment
Best for IA and civilians both, but sadly instability and terror attacks make it impossible

 

[Screambowl]

IA leaving civilian population, focus on Border deployment
Best for IA and civilians both, but sadly instability and terror attacks make it impossible

what about those who have infiltrated into the city? I have seen that region, it is not easy to keep watch on every infiltration. Those who successfully enter in the jungles of kupwara, then you need military to clear them. Otherwise hostage situations arise in the villages.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

what about those who have infiltrated into the city? I have seen that region, it is not easy to keep watch on every infiltration. Those who successfully enter in the jungles of kupwara, then you need military to clear them. Otherwise hostage situations arise.

I know thats why i have mentioned about instability
We need to tighten our borders up more, less infiltration will dry up armed tension

 

[Screambowl]

I know thats why i have mentioned about instability
We need to tighten our borders up more, less infiltration will dry up armed tension

infiltration will not stop because it is supported by Locals only. That's why you need military around the city if not into the city, to reach the city and clear.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

infiltration will not stop because it is supported by Locals only. That's why you need military around the city if not into the city, to reach the city and clear.

agreed but borders are armed by the army ? i know its not easy, but they are the best solutions to stop arms supply

 

[Screambowl]

agreed but borders are armed by the army ? i know its not easy, but they are the best solutions to stop arms supply

yup its both , the army and BSF.

this is all due to Pakistan not following their own article 257 of Pakistan constitution. Like we follow blindly our article 370. Because they don't give a damn and say Kya karlega India.

 

[Mr.S.Singh]

yup its both , the army and BSF.

this is all due to Pakistan not following their own article 257 of Pakistan constitution. Like we follow blindly our article 370. Because they don't give a damn and say Kya karlega India.

We shouldnt follow them or their leads
Eliminate armed rebels, develop the state of J&K, tab ki tab dekhenge

 

[HariPrasad]

Oh bhai sahib

article 370 was invention of Indian government

This was the deal offered by Indian gov in order to beg Kashmiri leaders for accession and thus only applicable to one unique case.

Pakistanis should have offered even more freedom to Kashmiri Raja, but we didn't have the kind of political savviness.

Than you should not repent now. Nothing is permanent. Article 370 has done nothing good for Kashmiris and only helped them to isolate and poor. It is the time to rethink now. Our government is doing that only.