Kashmiri Pandit body demands restoration of Article 370

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer ; @xeuss ; @Crixus

I don't know much about internal arrangements and politics in Jammu & Kashmir. However, I do know that their autonomous status was enshrined in the constitution.

They were the only princely state that persisted in their efforts to frame their own constitution. A number of other states, mainly progressive, well-run ones, also started to do so, but abandoned their efforts mid-way, and decided simply to accept the Indian constitution. Kashmir, under Abdullah, persisted; although it took them time, they finally brought it out.

There was then the question of what to do about discrepancies between the Indian constitution and the J&K constitution. The Indian constitution was ready in 1950, and soon passed into law; the J&K constitution took several years more. So what was to have been done in case the Indian constitution said something and the J&K constitution flatly contradicted it?

From the INDIAN side, the constituent assembly brought in an article that said three things, essentially:

1. No law passed in the Indian parliament AFTER the Indian constitution came into force would be law in the state of J&K until it was separately taken up, discussed, and passed into law valid in J&K;
2. The J&K Constituent Assembly would recommend which Indian laws might be considered, as long as it existed;
3. Once the J&K Constituent Assembly had finished its work, and the J&K Constitution was ready to be passed into law, the J&K Constituent Assembly would inform the Lok Sabha that it was done, and Art. 370 would then be removed.

It was purely temporary, and the intention was to remove it once the J&K Constitution was ready. Because that information was never conveyed to the Indian Parliament, the clause became permanent. This was anomalous, but the way in which it was removed was totally wrong.

If so, there must have been a very strong historical, cultural, political and strategic reason(s) for it.
Indian political leaders since 1947 (or even before) up till recently had a very deep understanding of the issues that could emanate from their actions.

Indeed, there was. One factor was the fear of the native of Kashmir of being swamped by everyone NOT a permanent resident. So they fished out an old statute of the Maharajas, intended to protect the rich jagirdars, the Dogras and a few Kashmir Pandits, and made a law of it, Art. 35A of the Indian constitution, restricting the ownership of property to permanent residents.

This was another law that the right wing hated. This, too, was abrogated by the instant solution experts, IGNORING THE FACT THAT SEVEN OTHER INDIAN STATES HAD IDENTICAL STIPULATIONS, including BJP strongholds.

Events since August 2019, as they have unfolded, are a testament to their acumen.

Ah, Sir, I never mocked you good people in your time of troubles. Your comment is perfectly correct, but stings.

 

[Joe Shearer]

i saw them only twice then when i was working in ghaziabad , i don't know what happened to their refugee camps , i was transferred from western UP to east UP in 2003 .

Please count me in if you ever gather a group to help them establish themselves.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Too lazy to open a whole thread on it, it'd require a bit (lot) more research on stuff I can just pull out of my pocket on call.

Do happen to know a couple genuine stakeholders in the whole drama. Was kinda surprised by how genuinely sanguine they were after this originally went down, and they remain so today .. yep, they really do.

those guys... "sabka malik ek" philosophy.

why ?

because India has been so nice to them (or maybe they were just born into privilege)

anyway, may they make their untold number of millions, invest it back home, and lift everybody else up in their state too.

1. is security, we can't have separatists putting a gun to an apple farmer who the government is trying to help anymore.

2. let those sweet investor cash flows begin

they're going to have it so good in the future, foresee a most enviable coming days (acche din) for them.

I can only hope that you are right and that I am wrong.

 

[Crixus]

@Joe Shearer Sir I wrote peaceful , you got angry now tell how you counter crap like the below ????

Such poison is countered by poison only .........................

No way. The only way they can return to valley is by embracing Islam.

Why can't they go to Rajasthan. Huge land with less population.

View attachment 656890

 

[Dil Pakistan]

They were the only princely state that persisted in their efforts to frame their own constitution. A number of other states, mainly progressive, well-run ones, also started to do so, but abandoned their efforts mid-way, and decided simply to accept the Indian constitution. Kashmir, under Abdullah, persisted; although it took them time, they finally brought it out.

There was then the question of what to do about discrepancies between the Indian constitution and the J&K constitution. The Indian constitution was ready in 1950, and soon passed into law; the J&K constitution took several years more. So what was to have been done in case the Indian constitution said something and the J&K constitution flatly contradicted it?

From the INDIAN side, the constituent assembly brought in an article that said three things, essentially:

1. No law passed in the Indian parliament AFTER the Indian constitution came into force would be law in the state of J&K until it was separately taken up, discussed, and passed into law valid in J&K;
2. The J&K Constituent Assembly would recommend which Indian laws might be considered, as long as it existed;
3. Once the J&K Constituent Assembly had finished its work, and the J&K Constitution was ready to be passed into law, the J&K Constituent Assembly would inform the Lok Sabha that it was done, and Art. 370 would then be removed.

It was purely temporary, and the intention was to remove it once the J&K Constitution was ready. Because that information was never conveyed to the Indian Parliament, the clause became permanent. This was anomalous, but the way in which it was removed was totally wrong.



Indeed, there was. One factor was the fear of the native of Kashmir of being swamped by everyone NOT a permanent resident. So they fished out an old statute of the Maharajas, intended to protect the rich jagirdars, the Dogras and a few Kashmir Pandits, and made a law of it, Art. 35A of the Indian constitution, restricting the ownership of property to permanent residents.

This was another law that the right wing hated. This, too, was abrogated by the instant solution experts, IGNORING THE FACT THAT SEVEN OTHER INDIAN STATES HAD IDENTICAL STIPULATIONS, including BJP strongholds.



Ah, Sir, I never mocked you good people in your time of troubles. Your comment is perfectly correct, but stings.

Sir! you deserved more than one thanks for this highly informative and honest post (as you always are). I gave you one thanks by clicking the button, and the second one is here.

Rest assured that it just does not sting YOU, and good people like YOU. It stings and hurts people in Pakistan too, those who could see a clear path of resolving their differences with India with peace and honour for both sides.

Stay blessed.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer Sir I wrote peaceful , you got angry now tell how you counter crap like the below ????

I deleted all my posts that I had promised to. Do you still hold that as an open matter?

As for the idiot in mention, ask him why he doesn't use his computer where he claims he is living, Moghulpura. Ask him if his 'employer' knows what he is doing with his computer, defaming India morning, evening and night.

Suffer him for a while longer.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Sir! you deserved more than one thanks for this highly informative and honest post (as you always are). I gave you one thanks by clicking the button, and the second one is here.

Rest assured that it just does not sting YOU, and good people like YOU. It stings and hurts people in Pakistan too, those who could see a clear path of resolving their differences with India with peace and honour for both sides.

Stay blessed.

My grateful thanks.

It stung me as an honourable Indian, struggling under the weight of my affection for both Kashmiri Pandits and Kashmiri Muslims, and trying to explain to one why they have not been helped out of their horrible penury and squalor, and to the other why they are not entitled to simple human dignity in daily life. It is extremely emotional to listen to any individual from either side, and sense their pain and helplessness under their brave and fearless words.

Anger is bad for my health, but this is killing me by inches.

The only salve is the thought that there are people of goodwill in Pakistan as well, who wish to resolve these differences and bring peace and honour to these gentle people, and through that to all of us.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

My grateful thanks.

It stung me as an honourable Indian, struggling under the weight of my affection for both Kashmiri Pandits and Kashmiri Muslims, and trying to explain to one why they have not been helped out of their horrible penury and squalor, and to the other why they are not entitled to simple human dignity in daily life. It is extremely emotional to listen to any individual from either side, and sense their pain and helplessness under their brave and fearless words.

Anger is bad for my health, but this is killing me by inches.

The only salve is the thought that there are people of goodwill in Pakistan as well, who wish to resolve these differences and bring peace and honour to these gentle people, and through that to all of us.

Let us (continue to) hope for the best.

 

[Crixus]

After you highlighted i realized what i wrote was not right but my question is you cant keep on offering you cheeks to get slapped again and again , I dont want some one to be wolf but being a sheep is also disgraceful .....

I am sure the same views as shared by this guy are the views of millions ...... I have no grudges and thanks for correcting me

I deleted all my posts that I had promised to. Do you still hold that as an open matter?

As for the idiot in mention, ask him why he doesn't use his computer where he claims he is living, Moghulpura. Ask him if his 'employer' knows what he is doing with his computer, defaming India morning, evening and night.

Suffer him for a while longer.

 

[masterchief_mirza]

It's rather more complex than that. Although I used essentially the same words as you sans the profundities, that 1.3 includes the people of Kashmir who gave themselves a constitution that performed (under the Indian constitution, without either violating each other) perfectly peacefully, before the BJP brought a meat cleaver to the cataract surgery table.

I've heard it's closer to 1.4billion including the trimmings.

 

[Vikram1]

You have no right to decide anyone's faith.



Read every legal authority you can lay your hands on.

Then read the Supreme Court judgements on the same subject. It exists in print.

Doesn't matter your like it or not, I will. By power given to me in Indian constitution by choosing my government.
Why being so much impatient, you can wait for judgement. I am enjoying the abrogation of that article.

 

[HalfMoon]

I deleted all my posts that I had promised to. Do you still hold that as an open matter?

As for the idiot in mention, ask him why he doesn't use his computer where he claims he is living, Moghulpura. Ask him if his 'employer' knows what he is doing with his computer, defaming India morning, evening and night.

Suffer him for a while longer.

What is your problem if I use my employer's PC? You are not paying for it. Are you?

You claim that you are on your death bed but hang out here 24x7. Who are you fooling?

 

[HalfMoon]

I am sure the same views as shared by this guy are the views of millions ......

Millions? More like thousands.

Most of the Indian Muslims are either selfish muslims or sold out muslims.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Doesn't matter your like it or not, I will. By power given to me in Indian constitution by choosing my government.
Why being so much impatient, you can wait for judgement. I am enjoying the abrogation of that article.

Noted.

 

[T90TankGuy]

J&K is part of my country and I have all right to think/decide its faith as per my individual capacity. (Which I need by choosing BJP to power). So take your stupid political correctness some where else. No one is asking your useless advice.

Exactly !!! J&K is a part of India and we need to listen to the residents of kashmir what they want , not some idiot who sits in nagpur. Can you imagine if south India says since we contribute more money than all bimaru states to the coffers we need to have a say what goes on in UP or Bihar?