Kashmiri actor starring in “Haider” martyred by Indian forces

[Dubious]

We are asking you to fall in line take actions. Or we can go this merry go round of simple diplomacies, sharing sweets, sending pilgrims etc.. etc... We'll test all sorts of approach in solving the militancy (with plenty of time at hand and given Pakistan economic quagmire with no positive forecast).

You ask when you sit at a table so far that hasnt happened, so not negotiating but running away!
You cant solve it via military if you could, it would have happened by now!

LOL! Typical strawman argument. I never agreed to anything that you want to, Kashmir is not disputed territory according to India, you can stretch that with semantics. Just so you know, the GCC meeting which used to put this Kashmir issue on joint declaration has recently skipped the matter altogether. Not that we care what they say, but that concerns you. Link
At the end, money and influence sway the opinion.

But you did!

That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organisation, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peaceful and harmonious relations.

This is doesnt happen if xyz is not a disputed territory!

You dont need bilateral negotiation if KASHMIR was part of india! Since it is disputed territory, BOTH sides need to negotiate! YOU AGREED THAT KASHMIR IS A DISPUTED TERRITORY and you guys are just living in denial when you BS...Thank you for making it clear that KASHMIR is NOT a part of india!

You see you dont need "bilateral negotiation to change anything in Delhi but you do when it comes to KASHMIR! CONFIRMING KASHMIR is not a part of india but a disputed territory!

Saying anything more is just trolling!

Mubarak ho!

 

[LASER1]

You ask when you sit at a table so far that hasnt happened, so not negotiating but running away!
You cant solve it via military if you could, it would have happened by now!

We sat on the table a lot of times. Heck a PM visited Pakistan in 1999 what we got in return was Kargil.
When all the attempts were made, there is something that'll backstab the process. In the recent times, it was issuing stamp on the dead HM terrorist Burhan Wani. It's like Pakistan don't want any peace talks at all.

Hence we put preconditions.

This is doesnt happen if xyz is not a disputed territory!

You dont need bilateral negotiation if KASHMIR was part of india! Since it is disputed territory, BOTH sides need to negotiate! YOU AGREED THAT KASHMIR IS A DISPUTED TERRITORY and you guys are just living in denial when you BS...Thank you for making it clear that KASHMIR is NOT a part of india!

haha, who said Bilateral negotiations are for Kashmir, for us it is AJK and GB. Does the agreement say anything about disputed territory? The whole agreement has no word called "Dispute".

I'm just stating the obvious, you seriously believe India will give away Kashmir because a bunch of terrorist kills the police and army, or a bunch of people whines Azadi? Then you are terribly mistaken. Nobody is going to commit the political harakiri of "giving Kashmir".

 

[JohnWick]

".
Then you are terribly mistaken. Nobody is going to commit the political harakiri of "giving Kashmir".

We'll get it.

 

[Corona]

Until and unless proven in an International Court, we have no reason to believe the Indian and American propaganda that LeT was behind those attacks.

LeT became inactive in Occupied Kashmir during Musharaf's rule. We are not materially supporting Kashmiri Freedom Fighters any longer. Update yourself.

Pakistan's views on the matter are irrelevant as far as we are concerned. As the mod was kind enough to illustrate, that would be like expecting the thief to confess in court. As for the rest of the world, I don't have to explain to you about their perceptions of Pakistan.

But coming back to topic, Let became publicly inactive only because it was inconvinient for Pakistan to openly support them with the US in the neighborhood, not out of the goodness of any Pakistani general's heart. Even ignoring the fact that these organizations are still operating under the table, has the Kashmiri militants ever denounced them now or in the past? Have they ever refused help from them now or in the past? Seems to me the best way for these violent militants to gain an ounce of credibility in the international arena is to separate themselves from terrorist outfits, but you won't hear that from them.

 

[JohnWick]

Pakistan's views on the matter are irrelevant as far as we are concerned. As the mod was kind enough to illustrate, that would be like expecting the thief to confess in court. As for the rest of the world, I don't have to explain to you about their perceptions of Pakistan.

But coming back to topic, Let became publicly inactive only because it was inconvinient for Pakistan to openly support them with the US in the neighborhood, not out of the goodness of any Pakistani general's heart. Even ignoring the fact that these organizations are still operating under the table, has the Kashmiri militants ever denounced them now or in the past? Have they ever refused help from them now or in the past? Seems to me the best way for these violent militants to gain an ounce of credibility in the international arena is to separate themselves from terrorist outfits, but you won't hear that from them.

So what's the solution of Kashmir.

 

[Dubious]

We sat on the table a lot of times. Heck a PM visited Pakistan in 1999 what we got in return was Kargil.
When all the attempts were made, there is something that'll backstab the process. In the recent times, it was issuing stamp on the dead HM terrorist Burhan Wani. It's like Pakistan don't want any peace talks at all.

Hence we put preconditions.

We are living in 2018...Looks like indians are still in turmoil shock since 1999....How can such a nation be in shock for almost 2 decades?! It is nothing but procrastinating unless you admit you are a weak nation?

haha, who said Bilateral negotiations are for Kashmir, for us it is AJK and GB. Does the agreement say anything about disputed territory? The whole agreement has no word called "Dispute".

It doesnt need to say it in words... you dont need bilateral negotiation to change anything in Mumbai...which is a part of india...however, same rule doesnt apply to Kashmir...THAT is enough prove KASHMIR is not part of india!
There is no cure for denying...try the doctor?

I'm just stating the obvious, you seriously believe India will give away Kashmir because a bunch of terrorist kills the police and army, or a bunch of people whines Azadi? Then you are terribly mistaken. Nobody is going to commit the political harakiri of "giving Kashmir".

For calling freedom fighters anything else you get a negative rating...Technically, india should have changed it's stance to be lenient but they lost that chance due to ego and denial......we are giving to their demand for freedom of referendum it is their choice! It def doesnt want to be forcefully occupied by india since it is not a part of india!

I will leave this part here for you :

Shimla agreement
That the two countries are resolved to settle their differences by peaceful means through bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon between them. Pending the final settlement of any of the problems between the two countries, neither side shall unilaterally alter the situation and both shall prevent the organisation, assistance or encouragement of any acts detrimental to the maintenance of peaceful and harmonious relations.

 

[Corona]

Oh they are relevant, you need "bilateral agreement" for anything to go on Kashmir as your fellow just recently quoted Shimla agreement

I wasn't talking about Kashmir. I was talking about Pakistan's views on who was responsible for the Mumbai terror attacks.

 

[Dubious]

I wasn't talking about Kashmir. I was talking about Pakistan's views on who was responsible for the Mumbai terror attacks.

Ahh sorry my bad! Carry on...Maybe on a different thread!!

 

[LASER1]

We are living in 2018...Looks like indians are still in turmoil shock since 1999....How can such a nation be in shock for almost 2 decades?! It is nothing but procrastinating unless you admit you are a weak nation?

If we were weak you could've taken Kashmir easily. We are not in any "shock", we know how you operate, that's why we simply ignore these pretentious peace talks.

Just a doubt, is this just Kashmir? Or are we talking about Jammu and Kashmir the whole state?

It doesnt need to say it in words... you dont need bilateral negotiation to change anything in Mumbai...which is a part of india...however, same rule doesnt apply to Kashmir...THAT is enough prove KASHMIR is not part of india!
There is no cure for denying...try the doctor?

We need bilateral negotiation for the peace process. Like we fought wars over it and India hasn't budged. There is still LOC firing, infiltrations etc... So, an agreement is necessary. Also, these agreements shield us from putting a third party in the process, like UN, or the west, or the Arabs for that matter. We respecting the agreement is another matter. You can claim any part of the land in India maybe even invade it, doesn't mean it becomes disputed. It becomes disputed when both India and Pakistan agree it is disputed. We simply don't agree with that.
AJK is not part of Pakistan either going by that.

For calling freedom fighters anything else you get a negative rating...Technically, india should have changed it's stance to be lenient but they lost that chance due to ego and denial......we are giving to their demand for freedom of referendum it is their choice! It def doesnt want to be forcefully occupied by india since it is not a part of india!

haha, how many times have I told you a negative from you means nothing. Go on simply hand it out like HRK. I couldn't care any less about those. What else to expect when PDF makes peeps with a history of trolling, mods (given you have 5 negs).

Besides, there is no forum rule which says JeM are freedom fighters. Indian views simply is, they are terrorists, not just India, a lot of countries from Europe to the US call them terrorists. And I'm an Indian. You can call them freedom fighters as much as we can call BLA as freedom fighters.

As for Kashmir, sure why not you are welcome to call for anything you want, maybe you can take all those Kashmiri brothers and relocate them so that they don't suffer. Given you have so much love for Kashmir people.

 

[Dubious]

If we were weak you could've taken Kashmir easily. We are not in any "shock", we know how you operate, that's why we simply ignore these pretentious peace talks.

Just a doubt, is this just Kashmir? Or are we talking about Jammu and Kashmir the whole state?

india's stance is the same irrespective of the whole state or just Kashmir!

haha, how many times have I told you a negative from you means nothing. Go on simply hand it out like HRK. I couldn't care any less about those.

Yet you are still using this platform...kind of speaks volumes!

Besides, there is no forum rule which says JeM are freedom fighters. Indian views simply is, they are terrorists, not just India, a lot of countries from Europe to the US call them terrorists. And I'm an Indian. You can call them freedom fighters as much as we can call BLA as freedom fighters.

There is however a rule to pull something from thin air...Nowhere in the article does it say that the children are all from organizations....For all we know indian army shoots at Kashmiri children...Sign of a genocide!

They have done it in the past during protests...oppressing Kashmiri so how do we know this wasnt the evil army being trigger happy and making up stories to cover their lack of humanity?

As for Kashmir, sure why not you are welcome to call for anything you want, maybe you can take all those Kashmiri brothers and relocate them so that they don't suffer. Given you have so much love for Kashmir people.

It is their land, why should they move? Kind of shows india's greed!

 

[LASER1]

We are living in 2018

Yes we are, we have moved forward from early 1900, freedom fighting with AK-47 and bombs is not given a favorable view.

india's stance is the same irrespective of the whole state or just Kashmir!

No, I was just wondering, given districts in South Kashmir have issues relating to this "freedom fighting". While the rest of the state is peaceful.

Yet you are still using this platform...kind of speaks volumes!

Where is the fun in hometurf.

There is however a rule to pull something from thin air...Nowhere in the article does it say that the children are all from organizations....For all we know indian army shoots at Kashmiri children...Sign of a genocide!

They have done it in the past during protests...oppressing Kashmiri so how do we know this wasnt the evil army being trigger happy and making up stories to cover their lack of humanity?

You mean this propaganda piece? Oh, in this article they'll be peaceful angels playing football, gunned down by army. But the same PDF celebrated the courage of teens fighting a large army. Yeah, totally makes sense.
Genocide is a nice try, how about the class 11 student (around the same age) killed by terrorists because they suspected him to be an informer? Please cry a river for them too.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Pakistan's views on the matter are irrelevant as far as we are concerned. As the mod was kind enough to illustrate, that would be like expecting the thief to confess in court. As for the rest of the world, I don't have to explain to you about their perceptions of Pakistan.

But coming back to topic, Let became publicly inactive only because it was inconvinient for Pakistan to openly support them with the US in the neighborhood, not out of the goodness of any Pakistani general's heart. Even ignoring the fact that these organizations are still operating under the table, has the Kashmiri militants ever denounced them now or in the past? Have they ever refused help from them now or in the past? Seems to me the best way for these violent militants to gain an ounce of credibility in the international arena is to separate themselves from terrorist outfits, but you won't hear that from them.

Similarly, Indian views on the matter are irrelevant as far as we are concerned. So, what's your point?. Innocent until proven guilty is a rule of legal procedure. So, again, until and unless proven in an international Court, your accusations mean nothing.

As for how other countries view Pakistan (or India for that matter), that is not the topic of discussion here. Perceptions do not matter anyway. What matters is that the UN and the international community does not accept Indian position on Kashmir as it is in contradiction with International Law.

 

[Dubious]

Yes we are, we have moved forward from early 1900, freedom fighting with AK-47 and bombs is not given a favorable view.

So in the past they were? Yet 7 decades and you cant resolve Kashmir issue just hide from it?

No, I was just wondering, given districts in South Kashmir have issues relating to this "freedom fighting". While the rest of the state is peaceful.

You mean districts where indian oppression is stronger coz they refuse to be under illegal occupation?

Where is the fun in hometurf.

So trolling?!

You mean this propaganda piece? Oh, in this article they'll be peaceful angels playing football, gunned down by army. But the same PDF celebrated the courage of teens fighting a large army. Yeah, totally makes sense.
Genocide is a nice try, how about the class 11 student (around the same age) killed by terrorists because they suspected him to be an informer? Please cry a river for them too.

No we celebrated their bravery to face indian forces despite being oppressed daily!

 

[Corona]

So what's the solution of Kashmir.

From a random person on the internet? I don't know what you're expecting.

Neither country is getting Kashmir from the other through force. Both countries will turn Kashmir into a nuclear wasteland before that ever happens.

And for that matter, the issue is probably not gonna be resolved according to the 1948 UN resolution either. Too much has changed for that. Many people here will claim that Kashmir is the only sour point between India and Pakistan and that once the Kashmir issue is solved we call be buddies. That's bull. The Kashmir issue might have kick-started it, but the populations have been steered against each other by 70 years of history. We've been conditioned to hate each other by circumstances. Members here talk about 1000 year rules and splitting countries apart in 14 days and that's pretty much what we're exposed on the outside in both countires. There's a post in this very thread where a member threatens to repeatedly stab another member multiple times in his vital organs. If we can't keep our cool on the internet do you think will happen if we come up with a half as*ed solution to Kashmir and one side takes offence?

The only viable solution to the Kashmir issue is to find a scenario where both countries come out as winners. That does not mean the usual one sided arguments like 'leave Kashmir alone and no more people will die' or 'leave Kashmir alone and your economy will improve'. Unfortunately, the argument that 'Kashmiris don't want to be with India' doesn't work either.

Above all, any solution will have to better the lives of Kashmiris while addressing the concerns of both countries. Kashmir has suffered enough for the decisions of both countries. At the end of whatever agreement we come up with, we should frame it so that Kashmir doesn't become the point where we will butt heads again. None of this is going to happen if we keep pretending that solving the Kashmir issue by force one way or another will bring peace somehow. The citizens of both countries should ask themselves if they want to solve the Kashmir issue out of genuine concern or if Kashmir is just a conduit for us to express and satisfy our frustrations at each other's countries. It's not like like Pakistanis and Indians can't get along with each other. How many cases of Pakistani-Indian violence have you heard from foreign countries where Indian and Pakistani communities live together?

 

[LASER1]

So in the past they were? Yet 7 decades and you cant resolve Kashmir issue just hide from it?

In the past a lot of armed struggles gathered momentum. Quite a few materialized like in African continent, in Asia, chechens gave a good fight I must say. We could've resolved Kashmir issue with high hand approach but it's quite risky now. Like I said, we have all the time in the world to find different solutions the involves extermination of HM and LeT. New weapons, drones, let there be more stability, we may do a Xinjiang.

You mean districts where indian oppression is stronger coz they refuse to be under illegal occupation?

No, few districts that are the remaining stronghold.

So trolling?!

Stuff you used to do? Nope, there is a lot more than trolling, you should try sometimes.

No we celebrated their bravery to face indian forces despite being oppressed daily!

So, you agree they were killed during a gunfight. Good.
Not so different from ISIS/Taliban, giving guns to kids.

We, like India and Pakistan, are going on the same merry go round. I'm gonna end this pointless discussion.