Kashmiri actor starring in “Haider” martyred by Indian forces

[Corona]

Similarly, Indian views on the matter are irrelevant as far as we are concerned. So, what's your point?. Innocent until proven guilty is a rule of legal procedure. So, again, until and unless proven in an international Court, your accusations mean nothing.

As for how other countries view Pakistan (or India for that matter), that is not the topic of discussion here. Perceptions do not matter anyway. What matters is that the UN and the international community does not accept Indian position on Kashmir as it is in contradiction with International Law.

True, the Indian position doesn't matter to Pakistan. But one could make an argument on majority and who's view the majority sides with in these things. Majority perception has a funny way of becoming the true perception. Let's leave this argument here for now.

About the UN and the international community, they don't accept India's position but they don't accept Pakistan's either, do they? To solve the issue according to UN's terms, the conditions will have to be exactly as was in 1948. Think either India or Pakistan can recreate that? Both countries will try to stack the table if it comes to a referendum.

 

[Dubious]

So, you agree they were killed during a gunfight. Good.
Not so different from ISIS/Taliban, giving guns to kids.

We, like India and Pakistan, are going on the same merry go round. I'm gonna end this pointless discussion

I never said about gunfight...I am only saying they were brave...What they did I dont know coz I didnt go through that website as I find no happiness in kids dying!

 

[LASER1]

I never said about gunfight...I am only saying they were brave...What they did I dont know coz I didnt go through that website as I find no happiness in kids dying!

No you didn't, but you are proud of them for fighting the army. Thankfully my cognition is alright.
I'm not liking these teenagers dying. They could've sticked to playing football than joining LeT.

 

[M. Sarmad]

True, the Indian position doesn't matter to Pakistan. But one could make an argument on majority and who's view the majority sides with in these things. Majority perception has a funny way of becoming the true perception. Let's leave this argument here for now.

Argumentum ad populum is essentially a fallacious argument. No point in even discussing it.

About the UN and the international community, they don't accept India's position but they don't accept Pakistan's either, do they? To solve the issue according to UN's terms, the conditions will have to be exactly as was in 1948. Think either India or Pakistan can recreate that? Both countries will try to stack the table if it comes to a referendum.

Pakistan's position that the Kashmir Dispute has to be resolved in accordance with the will of people of Kashmir and UN Resolutions is not rejected by the UN.

As per the established and recognized maxim of law "commodum ex injuria sua nemo habere debet (No one can take advantage of own wrong)", India cannot claim that "since too much time has passed since 1948, the UN Resolutions on Kashmir have become invalid" as it is India itself which did not accept any demilitarization proposal made by the Commission and caused all the delay. Moreover, the UN maintains that the UN Resolutions on Kashmir will remain valid regardless of when they were adopted. So, this argument too is invalid

 

[Dubious]

No you didn't, but you are proud of them for fighting the army. Thankfully my cognition is alright.
I'm not liking these teenagers dying. They could've sticked to playing football than joining LeT.

you keep accusing them of it...proof?

 

[Corona]

Argumentum ad populum is essentially a fallacious argument. No point in even discussing it.




Pakistan's position that the Kashmir Dispute has to be resolved in accordance with the will of people of Kashmir and UN Resolutions is not rejected by the UN.

As per the established and recognized maxim of law "commodum ex injuria sua nemo habere debet (No one can take advantage of own wrong)", India cannot claim that "since too much time has passed since 1948, the UN Resolutions on Kashmir have become invalid" as it is India itself which did not accept any demilitarization proposal made by the Commission and caused all the delay. Moreover, the UN maintains that the UN Resolutions on Kashmir will remain valid regardless of when they were adopted. So, this argument too is invalid

My point is not the legality of the issue. Legally speaking, I'm sure you have your arguments about the UN resolution and there are other Indian members here who can defend India's position much better than I can. I'm saying that if we do things by the book, nothing will change. The UN's solution will benefit one side to the detriment of the other. And it's not as simple as losing a piece of land. There is the local implication within the county. The loss of international standing. The strategic loss for the military. The loss of confidence. These are not things a country will sacrifice for the sake of legality. Do you think any country will uphold a piece of law dictated to them by a foreign entity that all but guarantees the disintegration of that country?

Right now, as a consequence of state policy and indoctrination, the voters in any such election will be against India, at least in a portion of Kashmir. India's advantage is that nobody can force it to hold a referendum it will lose in the current climate, especially if it is limited to the indoctrinated lot. Hence the impasse. UN is not gonna go to war with India over its refusal to hold the referendum. Neither is the US or Russia or China. Pakistan has already tried multiple times and failed to change anything. There is currently no unstoppable force to challenge India's immovable determination, legal or not.

You could say that you don't care about consequences, that what happens in India doesn't concern anyone in this issue, that nothing else matters and the referendum should be conducted. And if you ever do find that unstoppable force to coerce Indian to even think about holding a referendum, I can guarantee that there will not be a Kashmir or Kashmiri population on voting day. That's what is at stake and I have full confidence that the Indian government or the Indian population will not hesitate even for a moment.

Personally, what is more important to you? That the Kashmir land goes to Pakistan? Or that just the Kashmiri people go to Pakistan? Or independence for both Indian and Pakistani Kashmir? Or is it just that India has to loose its share of Kashmir? Or reconciliation between India and Pakistan with Kashmir just being the medium to achieve that?

 

[M. Sarmad]

My point is not the legality of the issue. Legally speaking, I'm sure you have your arguments about the UN resolution and there are other Indian members here who can defend India's position much better than I can. ...

Knowledgeable Indians know very well that they cannot defend India's position in front of UN. They have tried their best, and they have failed.

For example, In 1957 Krishna Menon delivered an unprecedented eight-hour speech defending India's stand on Kashmir (concluding with Menon's collapse on the Security Council floor). To date, the speech is the longest ever delivered in the United Nations. The text of that speech is available online. No one has ever presented the Indian case on Kashmir better than him. He said everything the Indians say today. He blamed Pakistan and argued that Kashmir had acceded to India and the UN resolutions had become irrelevant and all other similar stuff we listen from the Indians every day. But the UN rejected the Indian position and passed another resolution reaffirming that the accession of Kashmir to India or Pakistan will be decided through a free and fair plebiscite.


India's best diplomats/delegates have failed in convincing the International Community (the UN) that Kashmir's accession to India is valid and complete. That is a dead end, for India ..

I'm saying that if we do things by the book, nothing will change. The UN's solution will benefit one side to the detriment of the other. And it's not as simple as losing a piece of land. There is the local implication within the county. The loss of international standing. The strategic loss for the military. The loss of confidence. These are not things a country will sacrifice for the sake of legality. Do you think any country will uphold a piece of law dictated to them by a foreign entity that all but guarantees the disintegration of that country?

Right now, as a consequence of state policy and indoctrination, the voters in any such election will be against India, at least in a portion of Kashmir. India's advantage is that nobody can force it to hold a referendum it will lose in the current climate, especially if it is limited to the indoctrinated lot. Hence the impasse. UN is not gonna go to war with India over its refusal to hold the referendum. Neither is the US or Russia or China. Pakistan has already tried multiple times and failed to change anything. There is currently no unstoppable force to challenge India's immovable determination, legal or not.

You could say that you don't care about consequences, that what happens in India doesn't concern anyone in this issue, that nothing else matters and the referendum should be conducted. And if you ever do find that unstoppable force to coerce Indian to even think about holding a referendum, I can guarantee that there will not be a Kashmir or Kashmiri population on voting day. That's what is at stake and I have full confidence that the Indian government or the Indian population will not hesitate even for a moment.

I can understand that. India has painted itself into a corner and there's no way out.

As a Pakistani PM once said to his Indian counter-part:

“we cannot take Kashmir by force, and you cannot give it peacefully; we have to find a way to span the distance.”

Personally, what is more important to you? That the Kashmir land goes to Pakistan? Or that just the Kashmiri people go to Pakistan? Or independence for both Indian and Pakistani Kashmir? Or is it just that India has to loose its share of Kashmir? Or reconciliation between India and Pakistan with Kashmir just being the medium to achieve that?

For me, Kashmiris and what they want is more important than anything else

 

[Kaniska]

Any viable suggestion that would possibly stopped the death of these kids??

 

[ranjeet]

Or just maybe Kashmiris had enough of oppression...It is common that when oppressed too long, the people bounce back in the form of resistance and that varies in force....

Like I said if for 70 yrs China had abused you just like how you do to Kashmir, dont tell me indians will sit around like a stubborn mule and take it in? (stubborn as a mule is a Idiom)

Enough with the justifications for child soldiers. I get it, you won't mind kashmiri kids picking up guns against India and dying. Makes your job much easier, you will get enough material to spin your narrative.

 

[Dubious]

Enough with the justifications for child soldiers. I get it, you won't mind kashmiri kids picking up guns against India and dying. Makes your job much easier, you will get enough material to spin your narrative.

Where or when did I say that? Enough with the denial of harming them and trolling!

Enough with the justifications for child soldiers. I get it, you won't mind kashmiri kids picking up guns against India and dying. Makes your job much easier, you will get enough material to spin your narrative.

Dont spit your shameless anger here! You people have been oppressing them shamelessly and now shamelessly refuse to take the responsibility! If you cant take responsibility stop trying to behave like an innocent BS! You know yourself that your forces are far from innocent!

You also know your own people acknowledged that your forces are being brutal! Nothing less than inhumane!

 

[LASER1]

you keep accusing them of it...proof?

It's not an accusation, these are media reports which mentions the events in detail. We have enough independent media to verify if any unlawful actions are committed.
Link
After joining terrorism, Saqib reportedly returned to his village many times. He even met some of his friends during his visit, said Mr Aijaz adding that he, however, never tried to reunite with his family.
"None of his friends told us about his visits, maybe because they were scared of him. He had a gun with him," Mr Aijaz said.

Dont spit your shameless anger here! You people have been oppressing them shamelessly and now shamelessly refuse to take the responsibility! If you cant take responsibility stop trying to behave like an innocent BS! You know yourself that your forces are far from innocent!

You also know your own people acknowledged that your forces are being brutal! Nothing less than inhumane!

Fahad Kahut is the joker who posted the "unknown" Naga girl video. I mean, when you fake it, don't make it too obvious.
This video is another shining example. Unknown Indian girl.