Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[justanobserver]

Pakistani media publish fake WikiLeaks cables attacking India

guardian.co.uk, Thursday 9 December 2010 16.29 GMT

They read like the most extraordinary revelations. Citing the WikiLeaks cables, major Pakistani newspapers this morning carried stories that purported to detail eye-popping American assessments of India's military and civilian leaders.

According to the reports, US diplomats described senior Indian generals as vain, egotistical and genocidal; they said India's government is secretly allied with Hindu fundamentalists; and they claimed Indian spies are covertly supporting Islamist militants in Pakistan's tribal belt and Balochistan.

"Enough evidence of Indian involvement in Waziristan, Balochistan," read the front-page story in the News; an almost identical story appeared in the Urdu-language Jang, Pakistan's bestselling daily.

If accurate, the disclosures would confirm the worst fears of Pakistani nationalist hawks and threaten relations between Washington and New Delhi. But they are not accurate.

An extensive search of the WikiLeaks database by the Guardian by date, name and keyword failed to locate any of the incendiary allegations. It suggests this is the first case of WikiLeaks being exploited for propaganda purposes.

The controversial claims, published in four Pakistani national papers, were credited to the Online Agency, an Islamabad-based news service that has frequently run pro-army stories in the past. No journalist is bylined.

Shaheen Sehbai, group editor at the News, described the story as "agencies' copy" and said he would investigate its origins.

The incident fits in with the wider Pakistani reaction to WikiLeaks since the first cables emerged.

In the west, reports have focused on US worries for the safety of Pakistan's nuclear stockpile, or the army's support for Islamist militants such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba, the group blamed for the Mumbai attack.

But Pakistan's media has given a wide berth to stories casting the military in a negative light, focusing instead on the foibles of the country's notoriously weak politicians.

Editors have pushed stories that focus on president Asif Ali Zardari's preoccupation with his death, prime minister Yousaf Raza Gilani's secret support for CIA drone strikes and tales of a bearded religious firebrand cosying up to the US ambassador.

Among ordinary citizens, the coverage has hardened perceptions that Pakistani leaders are in thrall to American power.

Pakistan has become "the world's biggest banana republic", wrote retired diplomat Asif Ezdi last week.

Military and political leaders, portrayed as dangerously divided in the cables, have banded together to downplay the assessment.

"Don't trust WikiLeaks," Gilani told reporters in Kabul last weekend. Beside him president Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, also tarred in the dispatches, nodded solemnly.

On Saturday the army, having stayed silent all week, denied claims that army chief General Ashfaq Kayani "distrusted" the opposition leader Nawaz Sharif. Kayani "holds all political leaders in esteem", a spokesman said.

Meanwhile conspiracy theorists, including some journalists, insist Washington secretly leaked the cables in an effort to discredit the Muslim world; the Saudi ambassador described them as propaganda.

But senior judges favour their publication. Dismissing an attempt to block WikiLeaks last week, justice Sheikh Azmat Saeed said the cables "may cause trouble for some personalities" but would be "good for the progress of the nation in the long run".

The lopsided media coverage highlights the strong influence of Pakistan's army over an otherwise vigorous free press.

This morning's stories disparaging Indian generals – one is said to be "rather a geek", another to be responsible for "genocide" and compared to Slobodan Milosevic – is counterbalanced by accounts of gushing American praise for Pakistan's top generals.

The actual WikiLeaks cables carry a more nuanced portraits of a close, if often uneasy, relationship between the US and Pakistan's military.

But the real cables do contain allegations of Indian support for Baloch separatists, largely sourced to British intelligence assessments.

Pakistan's press is generally cautious in reporting about its own army. But some internet commentators said the latest WikiLeaks story was a bridge too far.

Noting that the story was bylined to "agencies" – a term that in Pakistan means both a news agency and a spy outfit – the blogger Cafe Pyala asked: "How stupid do the 'Agencies' really think Pakistanis are?"

Pakistani media publish fake WikiLeaks cables attacking India | World news | The Guardian

 

[Subramanian]

Not at all. Jashwant Singh was a former army officer & the RSS did their best to prevent him from getting a ministry portfolio in 1998. Yashwanth Sinha was a former IAS officer who joined the Janata party & was with Chandrashekhar as FM in 1991. Arun Shourie is no one's man but his own.



Then what did you mean by this.

BJP has its own votebank,people who are devout hindus and dont like minority appeasement and stupid left leaning nature of the central government.Those guys wean away when the BJP starts behaving like the congress.

But their votes alone is not enough for the BJP,there are lot of neutral voters who decide whom to vote for just one day before the election,they decide who wins and who doesn't.

 

[KS]

Try not to act the innocent. By showing that the same nexus between politician and policeman that was active in those parts, fomented largely by Yedyurappa, continues today. The same protection that was extended to Muthalik then continues today.

Again you have nothing to say except some accusations based on a vague cause and effect theory. Nothing except proof cuts ice with me.

And further the cases registered against him were in the time period 2000-2008.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Bangalore/Mutaliks_long_history_of_running_riot/articleshow/4044044.cms

Till 2006 Jan it was the Congress that was in power in Karnataka and not the fascist BJP. So what stopped the Congress in arresting him ??

No, that comment was typical of the mindset of the BJP and its supporters.

Mis-conceptions and more misconceptions.

Nobody was talking about AK 47s and nobody was talking of shooting anybody. This is not Gujarat; this is not an encounter.

Encounters happen in every single state in India. Yeah but I understand your special desire to bring Gujarat in.

All they needed to do was to allow cases against him to move forward, instead of stone-walling them. All they needed to do was to observe the rule of law, rather than allowing it to be broken.

How do you know it was BJP that is stone walling the procedure.? Again this is the third time I am asking you - How are you dead sure he hasnt got an anticipatory bail ?

And as I previously said if anyone is to be blamed ,blame the Congress first not the BJP.

It is also noteworthy that the BJP spends huge amounts of time figuring how to get things done the perverted way, and hardly ever spends time doing things constitutionally.

yeah yeah whatever floats your boat.

I think that everything that has been said has registered with those who wish to learn more and did not have the facts, and I shall continue to give these facts the widest publicity.

Let me remind you of a parallel: when from the Indian side, it was first suggested that 26/11 was a Pakistani -based incident, there was a tidal wave of outrage. Subsequently, stage by stage, more and more evidence has come out, and stage by stage, corresponding to that, the defence against our repeated statements has changed. Further, stage by stage, as things became clearer, there was apparent administrative and judicial action taken, all of which meandered away into the sands of judicial and administrative inaction.

Do you see the parallel? You are so full of admiration and defence for the Sangh today, as the links to Muthalik and Purohit become clearer, as they have already become clearer in identical fashion to Amit Shah, as they have already always been clear with respect to Baba Bajrangi, what will your defence be?

Lol you still have not got the gist of my defence - Pramod Muthalilk was not a Sangh Pracharak when he commited his crime. He was expelled from the party roughly 4 years ago.

I have no beef with you if you name the Sri Ram Sene as a culprit.But you tried to falsely implicate the RSS with the crimes of Pramod Muthalik and therein lies my objections.

Is that supposed to be a parallel? Is the world of business and misdemeanours, including lapses in business etiquette identical to crimes committed under the constitution?

If you are saying that the firm fired an employee for acting in a criminal or in a justiciable manner, without taking appropriate action against him in reporting him to the police, or in taking judicial action against him, on the other hand, then the firm is certainly at fault.

Please dont try these specious arguments on me.I am the least amused.

Your analogy and your grouse against the RSS holds ground only if Pramod Muthalik was a RSS pracharak at the time of his commiting the Pub incident.But he was NOT. At that time it was about 4 years after he had been expelled from the Sangh.

What is so difficult for you to understand here ?

 

[bandmaster]

Pakistani media publish fake WikiLeaks cables attacking India

guardian.co.uk, Thursday 9 December 2010 16.29 GMT

They read like the most extraordinary revelations. Citing the WikiLeaks cables, major Pakistani newspapers this morning carried stories that purported to detail eye-popping American assessments of India's military and civilian leaders.

According to the reports, US diplomats described senior Indian generals as vain, egotistical and genocidal; they said India's government is secretly allied with Hindu fundamentalists; and they claimed Indian spies are covertly supporting Islamist militants in Pakistan's tribal belt and Balochistan.

"Enough evidence of Indian involvement in Waziristan, Balochistan," read the front-page story in the News; an almost identical story appeared in the Urdu-language Jang, Pakistan's bestselling daily.

If accurate, the disclosures would confirm the worst fears of Pakistani nationalist hawks and threaten relations between Washington and New Delhi. But they are not accurate.

An extensive search of the WikiLeaks database by the Guardian by date, name and keyword failed to locate any of the incendiary allegations. It suggests this is the first case of WikiLeaks being exploited for propaganda purposes.

The controversial claims, published in four Pakistani national papers, were credited to the Online Agency, an Islamabad-based news service that has frequently run pro-army stories in the past. No journalist is bylined.

Shaheen Sehbai, group editor at the News, described the story as "agencies' copy" and said he would investigate its origins.

The incident fits in with the wider Pakistani reaction to WikiLeaks since the first cables emerged.

In the west, reports have focused on US worries for the safety of Pakistan's nuclear stockpile, or the army's support for Islamist militants such as the Afghan Taliban and Lashkar-e-Taiba, the group blamed for the Mumbai attack.

But Pakistan's media has given a wide berth to stories casting the military in a negative light, focusing instead on the foibles of the country's notoriously weak politicians.

Editors have pushed stories that focus on president Asif Ali Zardari's preoccupation with his death, prime minister Yousaf Raza Gilani's secret support for CIA drone strikes and tales of a bearded religious firebrand cosying up to the US ambassador.

Among ordinary citizens, the coverage has hardened perceptions that Pakistani leaders are in thrall to American power.

Pakistan has become "the world's biggest banana republic", wrote retired diplomat Asif Ezdi last week.

Military and political leaders, portrayed as dangerously divided in the cables, have banded together to downplay the assessment.

"Don't trust WikiLeaks," Gilani told reporters in Kabul last weekend. Beside him president Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan, also tarred in the dispatches, nodded solemnly.

On Saturday the army, having stayed silent all week, denied claims that army chief General Ashfaq Kayani "distrusted" the opposition leader Nawaz Sharif. Kayani "holds all political leaders in esteem", a spokesman said.

Meanwhile conspiracy theorists, including some journalists, insist Washington secretly leaked the cables in an effort to discredit the Muslim world; the Saudi ambassador described them as propaganda.

But senior judges favour their publication. Dismissing an attempt to block WikiLeaks last week, justice Sheikh Azmat Saeed said the cables "may cause trouble for some personalities" but would be "good for the progress of the nation in the long run".

The lopsided media coverage highlights the strong influence of Pakistan's army over an otherwise vigorous free press.

This morning's stories disparaging Indian generals – one is said to be "rather a geek", another to be responsible for "genocide" and compared to Slobodan Milosevic – is counterbalanced by accounts of gushing American praise for Pakistan's top generals.

The actual WikiLeaks cables carry a more nuanced portraits of a close, if often uneasy, relationship between the US and Pakistan's military.

But the real cables do contain allegations of Indian support for Baloch separatists, largely sourced to British intelligence assessments.

Pakistan's press is generally cautious in reporting about its own army. But some internet commentators said the latest WikiLeaks story was a bridge too far.

Noting that the story was bylined to "agencies" – a term that in Pakistan means both a news agency and a spy outfit – the blogger Cafe Pyala asked: "How stupid do the 'Agencies' really think Pakistanis are?"

Pakistani media publish fake WikiLeaks cables attacking India | World news | The Guardian

Cafe Pyala should take a look at the number of re-posts in PakDef to get an answer. The 'agencies' seem to understand their audience better than him.

 

[abrahams]

repost... and fake with no original leaks provided...

however... considering these kind of posts... i wish it was true...

 

[Bang Galore]

1) I will repeat what I said to Joe - Unlike the Jihadi organisations that claim responsibility for whatever activity that takes place, no Hindu organisation took resposibility for Malegaon.They are still accused and not proved of their crime. So shall we hold our horses ?

You should not be repeating this rubbish. No one has made an actual claim for terrorist incidents except for those attributed to IM. That doesn't stop us from holding to account, the LeT,JuD,JeM , does it? Without prejudging the Malegaon issue, it can still be said that the BJP should not have defended people accused of terrorism against Indian nationals before they were declared innocent by a court of law.

2) The second point is a cyclic logic. You can say the same about Hindu rightwing orgs while I can parrot it for jihadi orgs. And FYI this is the exact same logic the Hindu Rightwing orgs give for any of their transgressions and rightly so considering the soft corner the political parties have for minorities. This double standard has gone to such ridiculous levels that PDP (Kerala) whose activists and leader were convicted of serial bomb blasts in my city is termed secular while RSS is blamed as communal. We today have an Asimuddin Owaisi of a blatantly communal party ,MIM give lectures on secularism.

Agree with the above. Condemn it. I am consistent, you should be too. Doesn't make the Hindu right wing organisations any more correct if they use the same excuses that they hold up as untenable when used by others.

 

[Rig Vedic]

it can still be said that the BJP should not have defended people accused of terrorism against Indian nationals before they were declared innocent by a court of law.

Depends. A mere accusation by someone against somebody doesn't mean that nobody should defend them.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Look at this story about Christian youths who damaged a Christian Church, hoping to incite hatred against Hindus. Should not such Goebbelsian propaganda be treated as terrorism. It's certainly a hate crime, at any rate. It's important to find out who was behind these youths.

Mangalore - Seven Arrested for Damaging Church Property

Daijiworld Media Network - Mangalore (SP)

Mangalore, Mar 19: In connection with indulging in rampage in a banana plantation belonging to Babbukatte Nityadhar Church and trying to disrupt peace in the region, Ullal policemen arrested seven persons on Wednesday March 18.

They are Jayson Verghese (23), Vijit Sunny Rozario (21), Araki Alfred (20), Roshan Cutinho (26), all from Nityadhar Nagar and Ronald Roshan (22), a resident of Kuttar Prakash Nagar. They were produced in the court on Wednesday.

On Monday morning, the banana plantation was found to have been damaged heavily to look as if people belonging to a particular community had barged into the plantation, and a saffron flag had been planted there, signifying that Hindu outfits had been involved with the destruction. The incident took place at a time when Hindu Samajotsav was being organized in the city.

The policemen said that during interrogation, the arrested persons revealed, they wanted to disturb the peace in the region by projecting the incident as a handiwork of a particular community.

Banana Plantation that was damaged

While making inquiries about those who inflicted the above damage, the policemen could by chance, lay their hands on the two accused, who had burnt down a motor bike on November 30 near Pandit House. Joy D'Souza (20) and Calvin Johnson D'Souza, from Nityadhar Nagar, accused of this act, were arrested and produced in the court on Wednesday. The policemen are also looking at the possibility of these two having been also involved with the destruction of the banana plantation.

Under the guidance of the city rural inspector Lingappa Poojary, Ullal sub-inspector of police Shivprakash has been conducting investigation.

Mangalore: Weeds within - Seven Arrested for Damaging Church Property

This is by no means an isolated incident. There are many who have made a successful career out of inciting hatred against Hindus.

 

[SpArK]

Contours of solution for J&K soon​

NEW DELHI: As the group of interlocutors is set to begin its third visit to J&K from December 17, Union home minister P Chidambaram on Thursday said contours of a political solution to the Kashmir problem were expected to emerge in the next few months.

Addressing a meeting here of the Parliamentary Consultative Committee, Chidambaram said the first and second reports of the group of interlocutors for J&K dealt with confidence-building measures and added that he had now asked the group to focus on finding the contours of a political solution.

Read more: 'Contours of solution for J&K soon' - The Times of India 'Contours of solution for J&K soon' - The Times of India

 

[Gene]

what could be the possible political solution???

 

[Bang Galore]

Depends. A mere accusation by someone against somebody doesn't mean that nobody should defend them.

Maybe but not from a party that claims that it takes a hardline against terror. Don't see them doing that when the accused belong to a different religion.

 

[Rig Vedic]

Maybe but not from a party that claims that it takes a hardline against terror. Don't see them doing that when the accused belong to a different religion.

What stand a person or party should take ought to depend on the credibility of the allegations. Which is very low in the case of Samjhauta allegations, for example.

 

[Bang Galore]

What stand a person or party should take ought to depend on the credibility of the allegations. Which is very low in the case of Samjhauta allegations, for example.

Not so in the Malegaon case which formed the crux of my argument.

 

[ajtr]

1.involve All parties in talk including un and pak and aphc.
2.Complete Autonomy to complete Azadi.
3.withdrawl of forces.Let J&K take care of it own security.
4.If Jammu and laddak populations can be exchanged with india if they dont want to live in J&K.

 

[Nalwa]

1.involve All parties in talk including un and pak and aphc.
2.Complete Autonomy to complete Azadi.
3.withdrawl of forces.Let J&K take care of it own security.
4.If Jammu and laddak populations can be exchanged with india if they dont want to live in J&K.

In your dreams.