Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Guynextdoor]

When Sir William Wallace undertook the long and arduous campaign against the British crown, to free his country Scotland, never were innocent Scots targeted, not even those civilians who were making a living working with the British crown. Only his soldiers who were spying for the English were ever executed. In fact and little known : one of Sir William Wallace's relatives was a tax official for the British. Never was his home invaded and he murdered.

What am I trying to get at? Successful Independence movements were focused, mindful of collateral damage and public sentiment, and extremely reserved and calculated in their use of force, always reserving and stockpiling in between fighting skirmishes in a professional manner...never did their campaign strike at the heart of England and target civilians or the crown...even though Wallace could have easily done so. His campaign took place almost 750 years ago. A country was born and respected as well as recognized by his worst enemies. Here we are in the 21st century and Kashmiris have not gained a dime. In Kashmir I see everything opposite happening to a successful freedom movement. This is because, in essence, terror organizations have taken the banner of something they do not deserve to represent. Innocents are suffering instead of profiting. When you see innocent people suffering for more than half a century around you...well it is time to revise the game plan. I do know for a fact that at least since the early 80s, militant groups in Kashmir have routinely executed "collaborating" Kashmiri civilians. Not fighters mind you, but honest labourers and day to day bread earners, mothers, wives, daughters, fathers. Militancy is the only party that ever gains anything...the freedom movement always suffers. This is in essence, a terribly managed and executed freedom struggle that is boiling down to outright terrorism at the expense of innocent Kashmiris. I don't side with the Indian viewpoint, but more often than not they have a legal and moral upperhand when terrorism is involved in Kashmir struggle. You don't have to be an agent of the "orange media" to realize basic concepts and draw parallels with the aid of history.

That's because this 'independance movement' is inherently corrput. When Gandhi launched his stayagraha- one chauri chaura was enough for him to pull the whole thing off. He would not accept one instance of violence. His cause was just so he could keep his moral standards high. Here the cause is unjust. It's an opportunism based on trying to syoke people's hatred through untruths. The love for money is behind it. So the Geelani won't question this or the raping and plundering commited by several militants before. His cause doesn't deserve to succeed because the vision he has for his people is shoddy and unjust. He represents the kind of opportunistic poitical culture that can bring only death and destruction to his people.

 

[Republic of Pakistan]

That's because this 'independance movement' is inherently corrput. When Gandhi launched his stayagraha- one chauri chaura was enough for him to pull the whole thing off. He would not accept one instance of violence. His cause was just so he could keep his moral standards high. Here the cause is unjust. It's an opportunism based on trying to syoke people's hatred through untruths. The love for money is behind it. So the Geelani won't question this or the raping and plundering commited by several militants before. His cause doesn't deserve to succeed because the vision he has for his people is shoddy and unjust. He represents the kind of opportunistic poitical culture that can bring only death and destruction to his people.

Well we must keep in mind that this struggle was born out of a painful birth of two nations, not too long ago. And something very dear (land) was not carefully or even appropriately partitioned (according to both sides today anyways) which left both parties in a "free for all" type of scenario. People who blame the British are just finding faults in useless places, but it is difficult for me to label the entire Kashmir issue as "inherently evil". I think it is inherently natural. The only problem is, the cause and roots of this movement have been hijacked...sooner or later the other party will exploit this weakness and capitalize on the situation. It is as simple as that. Justice, truth, righteousness, morality, etc. etc. are no longer variables in the formula with such a rogue militant outlook on how to achieve freedom. At least in my view.

 

[sasuke]

surprisingly people who are very active on other threads bashing India are quite .... may be they don't have anything to say in front of truth?

 

[KingOfGods]

bwahahahaha... Seriously? Indians are now going to allege, stone pelting training camps in Pakistan?

Maybe they've been pelting Indian security forces so long that they've gotten good at it! It's all about the numbers which are adding up against India!

May be!!!! As Pakistan gets a Katora (begging pot) in hands, it is quite possible, as now they can't afford to provide AK-47, etc., to these freedom-fighter. Its a cheap (by all means) solution to their deprived financial situation, which cannot support a massive budget for so-called Kashmir Warriors.

 

[gubbi]

Excellent! I have always pointed out that these so called separatist leaders, these dimwit "aazadi mongers" have nothing to offer to the youth of Kashmir. These idiots are milking the Kashmiri youth's fervor for their own political/religious ambitions - aka power struggle, while sending their own offsprings to far off places to get an education. While the kids of such "aazadi mongers" are getting better education in foreign lands and surprisingly including India, the youth in Kashmir are stagnating due to the constant bundhs!

These people DO NOT have a vision. Any movement without a vision FAILS! Idiots who try to see similarities with the Indian freedom struggle do not understand this basic difference! Indian freedom fighters had a vision and the end results are there for all to see.

Its very evident form the answers from Kashmiri youth that they do not have a clear vision and neither do they understand what "aazadi" means. It has also been my personal experience that those Kashmiris who call for "aazadi" have no idea what to do with it. Here's a shocker: one 'highly educated' dude hoped to become the 52nd state of USA!!!! Such idiocy!

With the youth so disillusioned and misguided, its no wonder that some of these very youth grow up to be "leaders" and show such incompetence with their direction, that its no wonder why Kashmiris are reeling under such social calamities!

 

[HAIDER]

For those who are not aware Draconian law .

The human rights situation is very pathetic in the valley mainly due to some factors such as; firstly, draconian laws kept in force by the Indian State in the area. The Armed Forces (Special Powers) Act, 1958, for example, empowers even a non-commissioned officer of force to shoot to kill anybody, if he is in the opinion that it is necessary to do so. They have got total impunity under the Act. Secondly, insensitivity of the other police forces towards the rights of the people. They still operate under colonial Police Act of 1860. Last but not the least is illiteracy and unawareness of the people regarding their rights and duties. A sample survey conducted by Barak Human Rights Protection Committee (BHRPC) indicates that 76% of the people don't know that they have the right to know the grounds of arrest at the time of arrest by a police officer. 78% of the people are not aware that an arrestee must be produced before the magistrate within 24 hours excluding the time of journey. 83% people have no knowledge about the right to free legal aid. 51% believes that it is the fate of an arrestee to be tortured mildly in police custody. 83% of those interviewed told that they think it is not wrong for an arrestee to be handcuffed in all circumstances. 87% of the people have no knowledge about the arrest memo. 65% think that police can arrest women even in the time between sunset and sunrise. So, it is no wonder that rights of arrestee are violated by the security forces in the one way or the other nearly in all cases of arrest, detention and during other pre-trial procedures.

need more sugar ?,,,so please I would say stop using language, which does not match with this forum standards..

 

[HAIDER]

Isn't not enough, a poor police man shoot the shoe at CM of Kashmir,who is right behind him and providing security. Not enough message ?....

 

[civfanatic]

To me this piece is an effort to assuage the bruised egos in BJP..The fact is that IUST students have stunned the bjp by thier frank demand of azaadi and seeing these smartly dressed girls and guys so eloquently asking for Azaadi would have shattered thier confidence to hold on to kashmir . All this noise about confusion in student ranks seems to be effort to an attempt at fake contempt to hide bruised egos.

 

[Rafael]

Unbiased and true.

yeah right

 

[Chandler]

Isn't not enough, a poor police man shoot the shoe at CM of Kashmir,who is right behind him and providing security. Not enough message ?....

But a bigger message was sent by Omar Abdullah himself, as in this instance, when he pardoned the (suspended) head constable aka the "Shoe thrower " stating

“The Holy month of Ramzan teaches us to be compassionate and to forgive everyone. My steps are in conformity with the teachings of Islam which does not teach hatred but only love and brotherhood."

And this is actually a smaller part of a bigger message ; that we learn quickly from our past errors, and will connect to satisfy the psyche of the people, the general aspirations of the people. That is the beauty of Democracy. Not only people learn and choose as to who is good for them, but even the elected representatives learn to capture the general mood among the people.

 

[prototype]

what the hell the thread had reached its 4th page still Kashmir and Pakistan are unable to declare Kashmiri freedom.....r u people such incompetent

 

[HAIDER]

Yeah Indian already delivered prototype democracy and people of Kashmir are evaluating it. Kashmir freedom is surrounded by state sponsored life saving guards.....

 

[sssss]

Pakistan should move in full force and liberate Kashmiris from barathi tyranny. We won Kargil, still hold on 4 strategic points to this day which india could not reclaim even after sending their entire military. We have more nukes and more powerful nukes than india. Its a sure loss for india.

YOU WON KARGIL!?

26th July is celebrated as Kargil Vijay Diwas in India,
You lost Bangladesh out of you,btw what the heck is the size of your military,air force ,navy?Supported by Chinese weapons? and we poor Indians are with American,Russian and Indian.
Sadly we are behind of Pakistan.


Have a look..
Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Result : India regains control over Pakistani occupied ridges. Pakistan withdrew from Indian-controlled Kashmir to pre-war Line of Control.
On the left side of the screen...RESULT

_________________________
Faced with the possibility of international isolation, the already fragile Pakistani economy was weakened further.[103][104] The morale of Pakistani forces after the withdrawal declined as many units of the Northern Light Infantry suffered heavy casualties.[19][105] The government refused to accept the dead bodies of many officers,[106][107] an issue that provoked outrage and protests in the Northern Areas.[108][109] Pakistan initially did not acknowledge many of its casualties, but Sharif later said that over 4,000 Pakistani troops were killed in the operation and that Pakistan had lost the conflict.[7] Responding to this, Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf said, "It hurts me when an ex-premier undermines his own forces," and claimed that Indian casualties were more than that of Pakistan
______________________________
Kargil War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You had more casualties,YOU LOST.
Pakistan has never defeated India and i can assure you,it never will.

 

[Bhairava]

To me this piece is an effort to assuage the bruised egos in BJP..The fact is that IUST students have stunned the bjp by thier frank demand of azaadi and seeing these smartly dressed girls and guys so eloquently asking for Azaadi would have shattered thier confidence to hold on to kashmir . All this noise about confusion in student ranks seems to be effort to an attempt at fake contempt to hide bruised egos.

These quotes and the bolded parts specially for you.

Sushma Swaraj stunned the students from the valley on August 18 with the question "tell me what idea of the so-called 'azadi' you have and I shall speak after that". The students decided to have one among them to define what they thought about the concept of freedom they were seeking for Kashmir. Sarmad said: "We want to include Gilgit, Baltistan, Jammu and Ladakh in 'Azad Kashmir' and will have friendly relations with Pakistan and India." Some others tried to interject with more ideas. There was no clear voice that could describe what they mean by "azadi" when they chant it.

A small section of "azadi" seekers couldn't say anything except jeering at the Indian voice from Kashmir. He later complained that some of the students threatened him, "but I am not scared, sir". He was firm.

This is what the Kasmiri Hindus think about your freedom struggle:

The Kashmiri Hindu students, like Radhika Kaul (just about to leave for Yale University) asked why none from Jammu or Ladakh supported what they said and wanted to be distanced from all their claims. "Why none of you ever, even in passing, refer to the pains and aspirations of these two areas which you think form an essential part of your so called 'Azad Kashmir'?"

Your 'Azad Kashmir' remains a small, marginalized cry of a section of stone pelters in the valley alone," said Aditya Kaul. Utpal Kaul — born, brought up and educated in Srinagar — reminisced about his student days,

Prof Fouzia too became emotional and said: "We always had the tradition of mosques and temples existing side by side." To this, Aditya wanted to know, where have all the temples gone now? Thousands of them have been demolished and graffiti in foul language written against Hindus on their half-burnt walls. Why none of them ever protested against such happenings?

 

[Dash]

Source for such stupid claim?
rest of the post is bs

Why are you looking for a source, iam sure he will find 100 sources for this.
Now a days like somebody said, google gives sources like Aliens having chickens...

You know the reality, thats your source.