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So, is new media only reinforcing old stereotypes?


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i dont laugh at the misfortunes of occupied peoples

i do laugh when i expose hypocrisy and flaws of the arguments of people like you and your comrades :cheers:

and just because I am discussing Kashmir and the uprising doesnt mean you have to bring up political/security issues in Pakistan --which is a totally different topic and will be treated as thusly.

Sir.. No region is an island. While I agree that the topic here is Kashmir, the reason I passingly refered to Pakistan is because of the following reason

- The support for the so called occupied land is all fine. However what I find funny is that a lot of Pakistani members here are enjoying that India is getting troubled in Kashmir despite the fact that within Pakistan last 4 years have seen it degenerating from a flourishing economy growing at close of 9% to a country that came within a whisker of defaulting on its debt obligations and is still in a foreign debt mess. A lot of us believe that its Paksitan's obscession with Kashmir and its decision to use insurgency as a tool of state policy that lead to the extremism that is visible in large parts of the country. That in turn lead to the above economic and social slide that I menioned above.

So you see sir, its not that unlinked, atleast in my view.
 
Sir.. No region is an island.

thanks for your wisdom


While I agree that the topic here is Kashmir, the reason I passingly refered to Pakistan is because of the following reason

- The support for the so called occupied land is all fine. However what I find funny is that a lot of Pakistani members here are enjoying that India is getting troubled in Kashmir despite the fact that within Pakistan last 4 years have seen it degenerating from a flourishing economy growing at close of 9% to a country that came within a whisker of defaulting on its debt obligations and is still in a foreign debt mess. A lot of us believe that its Paksitan's obscession with Kashmir and its decision to use insurgency as a tool of state policy that lead to the extremism that is visible in large parts of the country. That in turn lead to the above economic and social slide that I menioned above.

no it doesnt...the poor economy is a global phenomenon --we werent exceptions. Though in our case, our decision to join the war on terrorism has had some blowback effects. We are situated in a tough geographical position and that puts us at peril for externalities of all kinds (not limited to the fact that we have natural disasters, and millions of refugees which help stagnate growth). Many other factors; ''extremism'' (in the Pakistani street) is not one of them though. From my view, people were more sympathetic to groups like taleban in 2003-2007 period than they are now. We are talking about now, and I see huge paradigm shift amongst even conservatives.

your mention of ''extremism'' has no merit because even in the more conservative areas such as in KP, a secular pro-democracy political party (as opposed to a religious party like MMA) was elected in 2008. That automatically negates your statement.

i'm not denying existance of intolerance and [religious motivated]extremism in Pakistan, but it exists in other countries as well (yours is no exception).

the issue of Kashmir is not a religious one; it's an existential one. It just so happens that Kashmir is a muslim majority region and much of the populace is against indian presence there. That is your own making, you artificially occupy land that has no affinity, loyalty or devotion to hindustan. That is clearly being exhibited via the ongoing protests (often which begin as a result of killings committed by your forces).......the future is the youth, and they are the ones being targetted

I dont enjoy seeing Kashmiri misfortune. But like i said, i love exposing hypocrites --especially those emanating from within your borders :)


So you see sir, its not that unlinked, atleast in my view.

totally irrelevant and poorly though out post, but nice try :tup:
 
US doesnt speak abt Kashmir,UK doesnt care abt Kashmir,Russia,France,China just turn a blind eye,the powers that may be just ignore it but Pakistan for all it is worth keeps harping Kashmir Kashmir as if it is going to make a darn difference.

One piece of advice..lokk inside ur country ppl...place it on a stable footing,push it onto the path of recovery and economic growth..then u can become the "thekedars of the Kashmiris".

Until then no one takes u seriously and the sooner u realise it the better for all. :cheers:

Wake up from your wet dream, google isnt that difficult to use.

Turkey, Saudi Arabia, China and UN have offical support for Pakistani stand on Kashmir. :flame:
 
This is obvious that the Kashmiri people have given there verdict that they don't want to be part of India.....in my opinion I think its best if India relinqush it's hold on Kashmir.. and give freedom to the people...and I am not saying that it should go to Pakistan...but that it should be a separate state. If that happens..then maybe tensions bewteen Pakistan and India can be resolved..and both parties can move on....but also it would show a great maturity for India to do so. I pray that this issue gets resolved..and that no more death's occur.
 
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/d...t-about-india-so-we-turn-our-back-on-kashmir/


Think of India and it’s all Gandhian saintliness, Ravi Shankar’s sitar, a whiff of incense and the feel-good beats of Bollywood Bhangra. These memories, sounds and smells conjure images of the world’s largest democracy, where tolerance and spirituality supposedly reign over realpolitik.
We don’t think of it as a country whose troops are jailing opposition leaders or placing them under house arrest, denying people the right to gather in prayer, beating children to death, or massacring stone-throwing protesters. The words “shoot to kill” are a grim relic from our own recent past, and certainly nothing we ever associate with India.
That’s why India is the world’s first “soft superpower”. It can barely do wrong for doing right, and if it does we don’t really want to know. As David Cameron made perfectly clear during his recent visit, we’re interested in India as the world’s second fastest-growing economy and by its contribution to the war on terrorism, but not how it treats its own people.
So despite the fact that 50 mainly young men and teenagers have either been shot or beaten to death in the last eight weeks in Kashmir; the two main separatist leaders have been jailed or placed under house arrest; that the Kashmir Valley has been locked down and the streets of Srinagar occupied by swaggering Indian troops who threaten housewives with big sticks, our leaders have remained completely silent.
Had these incidents been in Taliban-controlled parts of Afghanistan, or had the victims been Tibetans revolting against Chinese rule, we would have called it a massacre. But India’s great “soft power” is that the world wants to think the best of it.
To that end, our leaders overlooked the 53 young men and teenagers who were treated for bullet wounds in just one hospital in Kashmir’s state capital, Srinagar, last week. They had been shot either for throwing stones during protests against killings by Indian security forces in Kashmir – or for being in the wrong place at the wrong time in their own city.
This present wave of protests began after Indian soldiers shot dead three young Muslim men in the hope of passing them off as Pakistani terrorists and themselves as war heroes. They had lured them with the promise of jobs. A few weeks later a 17-year-old schoolboy was killed when Indian police fired a tear gas canister at his head.
Last week I interviewed Fayaz Ahmad Rah, a Srinagar fruit seller, as he mourned the death of his nine-year-old son, Sameer. Neighbours told me they had seen members of India’s paramilitary Central Reserve Police Force beat him to death with sticks and then dump his body in stinging nettles. The CRPF claims he was in fact a protester and that he had been trampled by other demonstrators as they fled a police advance.
Fayaz said his son had been walking through their usually safe tiny back lanes to his uncle’s house 100 metres away after stopping to buy sweets. When he washed his son’s body for burial, there was a half-chewed toffee still in his mouth, he said.
Over the last eight weeks a round of teenage civilian deaths, protests and more shootings followed by further protests has sucked Kashmir into a bleak vortex. But since it began, not a single member of India’s security forces has been shot or killed. It couldn’t be a more unequal contest.
Luckily for India, it happened in Kashmir where the words “Muslim”, “Pakistan” and “militants” shield what is either bad marksmanship or a shoot to kill policy from scrutiny and criticism.
This decision to look the other way only fuels the anger in Kashmir. From his home where he was being held under house arrest last week, separatist spiritual leader Mirwaiz Umar Farooq told me India had turned Kashmir into a “police state” and that British politicians and others were turning their back on it.
He had not been allowed to go to his mosque for more than six weeks, while other separatist Hurriyat leaders were also in jail or under house arrest. In many mosques throughout the state, only men over the age of 50 – regarded as beyond their stone-throwing years – have been allowed to meet to pray.
“It’s a direct interference in our religious affairs, a situation in which in a muslim state, if we’re not allowed to pray, the Muftis will say we have to call a war on the state,” he said.
Those demonstrating are part of a new generation born into violent protest which has seen leaders like Mirwaiz Umar Farooq sacrifice their credibility for talks with India, which came to nothing. “People now ask the question ‘you went for dialogue, what did you get? Did the killings or violence or disappearances stop?’ All it did was undermine the credibility of those who wanted, like me, to give dialogue a chance,” he said.
He believes India is not sincere about talks and is only interested in continual delay in the hope that protests and the desire for Kashmiri independence will peter out.
India has its own arguments, of course. It focuses on earlier killings and “ethnic cleansing” of Kashmiri pandits, and the reluctance of Buddhist Ladakh and Hindu and Sikh majority Jammu to follow the Muslim-dominated Kashmir Valley into Pakistan or independence. It criticises the refusal of separatist parties to take part in state assembly elections.
These are valid points, and I certainly don’t have the answers to a problem which has blighted India and Pakistan and provoked three wars between the nuclear enemies since their independence from Britain.
But I do think Britain might come to regret its silence and India its troops’ brutality. We risk alienating the remaining friends we have in the Muslim world and within our own substantial Kashmiri community in Britain. India risks losing the tremendous goodwill it had built up throughout the world over decades.
The Kashmiris, on the other hand, have little left to lose: the world has forgotten them.
 
the rest of muslim world betrayed also Iraq and Afghanistan and Palestine and Chinese muslims and list goes on and on.....

sab apna fayada dekhte hain.

They chose to ignore Iraq,Uyghurs,Kashmiris,Chechens ect. But they have not ignored Palestine...mainly because of their hatred for Jews.
 
They chose to ignore Iraq,Uyghurs,Kashmiris,Chechens ect. But they have not ignored Palestine...mainly because of their hatred for Jews.
The Kashmiri and Palestinian causes are the only ones in which the demands of the parties opposed to the occupying force have international legitimacy through UNSC resolutions.
 
If only the Kashmiris can see the reality that u have already understod,there is no need for this violence.

They need to understand we have the men,money,means and the will to continue.

Right, yet another morally bankrupt Indian - 'India will kill you, rape your women, occupy your lands and subjugate you, but India will not allow you to exercise the right to self determination that was promised you by the Governor General of India on Accession, and promised to you and again accepted by India in the United Nations Security Council Resolutions - all in the name of 'nationalism'.

In terms of a people with a mindset of hatred, bigotry and support for State Sponsored Terrorism and oppression of the rights of millions, Indians like you have no equal.
 
The Kashmiri and Palestinian causes are the only ones in which the demands of the parties opposed to the occupying force have international legitimacy through UNSC resolutions.

All the stakeholders should follow UNSC resolution.
UNSC problem declare na kare to kya wo problem nahi rehta.
 
Kashmir youths chucking careers to pelt stones
Himanshi Dhawan, TNN, Aug 12, 2010, 12.48am IST

NEW DELHI: For weeks after the Kashmir Valley erupted in anger, the stone-pelting protesters were described as semi-literate, unemployed youth being manipulated by secessionist leaders.

That's just a partial truth, as TOI found out after speaking to the men behind the masks. Many of the stone-pelters are youths with college degrees, some with academic careers or once-thriving businesses.

Such is the anger in the Valley that these youths, most of them with no prior political affiliations, are now willing to throw caution to the winds and give up their career dreams for "azadi".

A final year commerce student, Atiq, a "stone-pelter" himself, calls it a "haq ki ladaai (a fight for rights)". At 21, Atiq should have been weighing career options. But he says there are can be no career without a future.

"I am not scared that I will die by a bullet. I would have died doing something good. I have lived my life in the shadow of bullets. I can die by one without any remorse," he says in chaste Urdu.

But why pelt stones? "Throwing stones is retaliation. The forces have attacked us, shooting bullets at our chest and above the waist. They beat us without provocation. Won't we aim stones at their heads? The forces are lying when they say that they shoot in self-defence," he adds.

Agrees Riyaz, a management teacher at a city university who has participated in 80 to 90 protest marches by now. "I have studied in Saudi Arabia and central Asia. When I came back to Srinagar some years back, I was 17 years old and I realized that I had been living in an illusion. The reality was that we were constantly checked at gunpoint and were always under suspicion. There was no freedom here. It was a huge shock," he says in fluent English.

He explains how stone pelting came as a spontaneous reaction. "We have been subjected to unprovoked violence. The forces do it on purpose to spread fear and oppression. We can't fight the might of the government militarily, so we are employing every means possible to get our voice heard including stone pelting, speaking to the international media and writing articles that give our point of view," he says.

Kashmiris deserve "truth and justice", he says, adding the movement was a retaliation to India's unfulfilled promise. He has watched friends get picked up from their homes in the middle of the night, seen his family being searched at checkposts and decided he had had enough.

Hamid, a postgraduate, says that the disenchantment and anger has spread to entire families and is no longer restricted to certain groups. "My mother who never allowed me to step out in protest, yesterday said enough is enough and asked us to go out and protest," he says.

Atiq too says his parents know he pelts stones but do not discourage him from going out during curfew hours.

Despite weeks of shortages of food and medicines, and protesters landing up in hospitals with injuries, the resentment seems to have only grown. "It has never been like this. Between August 2009 to May 2010 there were only a few strikes called by the separatists and we were able to work even if we couldn't keep our offices open. But for the last three months, there has been a complete shutdown," says Hamid.

Read more: Kashmir youths chucking careers to pelt stones - India - The Times of India Kashmir youths chucking careers to pelt stones - India - The Times of India

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62 years of occupation, billions in subsidies, atrocities, torture, murder, rapes - and this is where the 'new' Kashmiri generation, that was supposed to have missed all that and see 'Shining India', is at.

Generally one would say to Indians in Urdu, 'ab sharam say doob maro', but the typical Indian response on this forum and elsewhere indicates a complete lack of 'sharam'.
 
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