Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Areesh]

Perfect answer from Mirwaiz. They never wanted this so called autonomy so bounce it back on the face of MMS.

 

[linkinpark]

hindustany occupation forces have placed Mr. Umer under house arrest for the umpteenth time.

so much for being a ''democracy'' (go figure)


by the way, obviously the Kashmiris will reject any handouts like so-called autonomy. Interestingly enough, we granted almost full autonomy to Azad Kashmir and there are not many problems to report there.

Autonomy to Azad Kashmir is a joke. If Pakistan really believed in the independence of Kashmir, the below oath wouldn't be in the constitution of AZK. The intention of Pakistan was always the accession of J&K.

Oath of President

" I,--------------------------------do solemnly swear that I am a Muslim and believe in the Unity and oneness of Almighty Allah, His angels, the Books of Allah, the Holy Quran being the last of them, his prophets, the absolute finality of the prophethood of Muhammad (Peace be upon him), the day of Judgment , and all the requirements and teachings of the Holy Quran and Sunnah;
That, as President of Azad Jammu and Kashmir, I will remain loyal to the country and the cause of accession of the State of Jammu and Kashmir to Pakistan;
That I will perform my functions as President honestly and faithfully; and
That I will not directly or indirectly communicate or reveal to any person any
official secret which may come to my knowledge as President;
So Help me Allah. "

AJK Interim Constitution Act 1974 by Asif Raja

See page 40

 

[Tshering22]

I think that's proof enough for their violent intentions. Time to play the second part of Good cop Bad cop.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Don't hide behind UN resolutions, when Pakistan has blatantly ignored the provisions of UN resolution 47 (remember it was under chapter-VI -nonbinding). Even Pakistan accepted the UN resolutions, pray then, why arent you guys abiding by it?
It is Pakistan which has no moral say in the matter. It was Pakistan who initiated this nasty conflict by initially invading the then independent state of Kashmir in 1947/48 on flimsy grounds. It is Pakistan who has the blood of many innocents including numerous Kashmiris on its hands. And you talk of morals? What a fallacious argument! Talking about moral bankruptcy, take a good look at your own country.

We are abiding by the resolutions, as has been pointed out repeatedly, despite Toxic trying to hide the fact, that the UN resolutions did not require Pakistan to withdraw unilaterally, and there were multiple rounds of negotiations between the UN, India and Pakistan on setting up a plan for demilitirization that would not allow one side or the other to take military advantage of the situation. These talks resulted in numerous proposals being advanced, almost all of which were rejected by India, until India simply violated its commitment to the UNSC resolutions.

And today not only has India reneged on its commitment to the UNSC resolutions and therefore its commitment and promise to the Kashmiri people (the Governor General of India noted that Accession would be conditional to a plebiscite when accepting the Instrument of Accession), but it continues to justify repression and occupation by hiding behind irrational and immoral arguments.

Again that is indeed a very stupid comment. Dont generalize here. Similar yardsticks can the applied everywhere. The only people who are to blame are the 'aazadi' mongers - bloody opportunists who instigate the mobs and the "moral" support from across the border, which are responsible for the bloodshed that is happening today. Next time violence occurs, India shoould just take care of those 'aazadi' mongers. Period. Anyway, Kashmiris dont deserve leaders of the likes who bray for "a few more martyrs" to further their own personal agendas.

I am not generalizing - that is the position of most Indians is it not? To continue occupation and repression of Kashmir in the name of INDIAN nationalism (not in the name of Kashmir).

The people to blame for violence and and chaos are then the Indian Public and the Indian State, that refuse to let the Kashmiris exercise their right of Self Determination.

And keep telling yourselves lies to make yourself feel better, but I would wager that Kashmir has plenty of rocks and stones to throw at Indian occupation forces - Pakistan does not have to supply them.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Autonomy to Azad Kashmir is a joke. If Pakistan really believed in the independence of Kashmir, the below oath wouldn't be in the constitution of AZK. The intention of Pakistan was always the accession of J&K.

It is 'autonomy' not 'Independence'. Nothing wrong with the oath so long as the people in AK can run their own administration in most affairs. That should get even better now that the GoP and the provinces have passed the 18th Amendment which dilutes Central control.

But in any case, what does it matter that the oath swears loyalty to Pakistan, since in a plebiscite the oath will carry no weight whatsoever.

 

[DGMO]

Perfect answer from Mirwaiz. They never wanted this so called autonomy so bounce it back on the face of MMS.

To be fair, they should grab it with both hands, as I touch on in my earlier post, they're not going to get more than that.

They may believe that they're speaking from a position of strength, and that India is on the backfoot, but India is playing the sponge game. And the bottom line is, they can, because they have for decades.

So they'll just continue to soak everything up Kashmiri's can throw at them. But they won't offer anything more than autonomy, never have done, never will.

That's India's red line and that's just reality.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Well I don't want to regurgitate same things which have been discussed to death on many threads on this forum. Frankly, its boring.

What I would like to state is that Kashmir's fate is firmly in India's hand as it is legally acceded to us. If you go by the world-wide support (or the lack of) that "separate kashmir" gets, one gets convinced that the resolution of this dispute will be to the satisfaction of India which most likely be status-quo. These days even big powers like US, UK also shudder to utter the K-word in front of Indians indicating the clout that India wields at the world stage and will do so more forcefully for a long time to come. Pakistan or the minuscule Kashmiri separatists have no leverage over India to resolve this issue. India has the time, patience and resources to weather through any storm of violence that will be thrown towards it.

India has developed a thick skin to the Kashmir issue and any violence that happens will be taken in its stride. You can blame all the violence in Kashmir on India if you want. You can scream at the top of you lungs that India is a morally bankrupt country, if you want. But, it is better if people realize that practically secession of Kashmir is not going to happen. Without strong world super power support none of these issues are going to get solved to the satisfaction of Pakistan or Kashmiri separatists as one case see on whose side these super powers are. The faster this realization dawns upon these parties the better it is for their lives and their future generations.

I don't just have to 'blame' India, it is obvious the violence is India's fault since India is the one reneging on the commitment to allow Kashmiris to exercise their right to self-determination as promised and accepted in the UNSC resolutions. And India dare not raise the issue of 'accession' as validating the legality of Kashmir's annexation, because if India does so, then it will lose Junagadh and the other States that it occupied, one of which legally acceded to Pakistan.

The world will do nothing, as it has done nothing on the Israeli Palestinian front, but the Kashmiris will never accept an immoral and illegal occupation of their land and people and the denial of their right to self-determination.

Every few years Indians start ranting about 'Kashmiris accept India now' only to find large scale riots/protests dashing their claims into the dirt. India has had 60+ years to 'integrate Kashmiris' and provides Kashmir more direct subsidies per capita than any State in the Indian Union, yet this is the extent of your influence and the extent of the 'respect' that the murderous Indian State gets:

 

[linkinpark]

It is 'autonomy' not 'Independence'. Nothing wrong with the oath so long as the people in AK can run their own administration in most affairs. That should get even better now that the GoP and the provinces have passed the 18th Amendment which dilutes Central control.

But in any case, what does it matter that the oath swears loyalty to Pakistan, since in a plebiscite the oath will carry no weight whatsoever.

Then how is 'Azad Kashmir' is really azad when it is firmly under the grip of federal govt. of Pakistan with only nominal autonomy. There is no difference in the way AZK and Indian kashmir administered. IK has autonomy except for defense, communication and foreign policy. Its same in AZK as well. Indian Kashmir has CM instead of PM and governor instead of President. So, I don't see any difference between their status.

 

[KS]

To be fair, they should grab it with both hands, as I touch on in my earlier post, they're not going to get more than that.

They may believe that they're speaking from a position of strength, and that India is on the backfoot, but India is playing the sponge game. And the bottom line is, they can, because they have for decades.

So they'll just continue to soak everything up Kashmiri's can throw at them. But they won't offer anything more than autonomy, never have done, never will.

That's India's red line and that's just reality.

If only the Kashmiris can see the reality that u have already understod,there is no need for this violence.

They need to understand we have the men,money,means and the will to continue.

 

[Awesome]

Not only the separatists but even those parties that work with Indian government have rejected this

PM's initiative a "joke" with the people of Kashmir: PDP - Hindustan Times

ammu and Kashmir's main opposition PDP tonight dismissed as a "joke with the people of Kashmir" Prime Minister Manmohan Singh's fresh initiative to end the unrest in the Valley. "The Prime Minister's statement (at the meeting with an all-party delegation from the state) is a joke with the people of Kashmir", PDP patron and former chief minister Mufti Mohd Sayeed said.

Sayeed described as a "futile exercise" the meeting the PM had with the delegation alleging "nothing will come out of
it".

He said Jammu and Kashmir Chief Minister Omar Abdullah had convened a meeting of all political parties a month ago
and decided to send a delegation to meet the Prime Minister.

However, all the parties had already met Singh separately before today's meeting, Sayeed added.

The Mufti said economic and employment package was not a solution to the Kashmir problem and suggested the separatists,
including hardline Hurryat Conference leader Syed Ali Shah Geelani, be invited to resolve the issue.

 

[Awesome]

Won't allow marches, then people will pick up stones!

To scuttle march, Geelani, Mirwaiz put under house arrest

Police on Wednesday put Srinagar and other major towns of Kashmir under curfew and separatists under house arrest to thwart a proposed march to Pampore, the hometown of senior Hurriyat leader Sheikh Abdul Aziz, who was killed this day in 2008 when police and Army fired on protesters marching towards Muzaffarbad.

Police and CRPF men were deployed in strength outside the house of Mirwaiz Umar Farooq, chief of the Hurriyat’s moderate faction who had threatened to forcibly break free of the house arrest.

Syed Ali Shah Geelani, Mirwaiz’s hardline counterpart, was also confined to his house, though only a few days ago, the state government had promised him “political space” in exchange for using his influence to prevent protesters from pelting stones and burning properties. Geelani helped clam the streets a little, but was struggling to steer the unprecedented unrest.

 

[Awesome]

Why is this Mirwaiz guy still breathing, I dont understand. He was among the first ones to pick up a gun under the misguidance of some people across the border. He has been responsible for killing a few Indian security personnel. Some one should seek revenge for his crimes.

When did he pick up a gun.

 

[gubbi]

When did he pick up a gun.

My bad. I confused him with someone else. Apologies.

 

[Jackdaws]

The situation is very much different than in the 80s and 90s. A lot of Indians are sympathetic to the Kashmiris - as an Indian, I don't want the Army to shoot innocent citizens of my country for merely protesting. I would like it if the govt. gave Kashmir a reasonable amount of autonomy.

 

[TOPGUN]

Let people live in peace and let live for GOD's sake... india seems to be follwing israel's foot steps as they do with the palestine's. Let these people decide what they want and leave them in peace otherwise sooner or later you will pay for it and then cry...