Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[Vinod2070]

Oh! Didnt notice that was deleted.. Any reason given for the deletion???

No idea. I just don't see that thread anymore.

 

[DGMO]

The perception in India is that it is the PA that drives the core agenda of Pakistan (and that includes relations with India). So it is Kayani who sets the tone and not the civilian government.

It's not a perception, it has some foundation to it.

Again, I come back to what Kayani had to deal with in 2008 for him to forget about Kashmir:

An ever more encroaching and confident enemy in the Pak Taliban, worsening conditions along the Pak-Afghan border, the arrival of Obama and the new 'Af-P@k / Holbrooke' dimension with renewed pressure on the PA.​

So Kashmir, from his point of view, and given the relative calm on the Eastern front correctly took a back seat to a more pressing issue on the Western border.

I don't think he's a hawk. I've never heard the guy speak! But being DG-ISI, and next in line for COAS, I'm sure Musharraf sat down with him over Kashmir, and had Kayani's buy-in.

As I said, it's upto the politicians to get us to the peace table, but don't forget that obstacles like Mumbai have impeded that. Pakistan needs to help India as much as possible with the Mumbai case, for India to witness sincerity on our part.

Once Mumbai as a chapter is closed from a judicial standpoint, then we can move to Kashmir, and I'm sure that will be with Kayani's blessings.

 

[Iggy]

in the last 9 years over 4257 civilians have died...due to your security forces killing them...that is alot.......you seem to be defending your goverments actions..when clearly it has blood on its hands.Yes the figure has gone down....but nevertheless they are still dieing.....just because they are raising there voice........if that is the case...should all the Indians living in Malaysia be put to death....just because they are voicing for more right.

Who said only the security persons are killing them??most of them are killed in the cross fire between terrorists and security forces and militants also killed many of them..you are only seeing one side of the story here ..

 

[GreenStar]

You keep on telling 45 peoples killed by police like police went each and every ones homes and killed them..

Maybe they did not go to there houses....but they were still killied by your police..for voicing there objection to Indian rule.

 

[Vinod2070]

Well so has the Israelis been saying for past 50 years about intifada. India is slowly trying to cultivate a picture of Kashmir as indian terriotery rather than disputed one.

Not slowly!

That has been the Indian position for at least the last half century if not more. No more divisions of India in the name of narrow sectarianism and hatreds. Those who have a problem living in a secular, multi religious democracy should close the door after them.

 

[Iggy]

Maybe they did not go to there houses....but they were still killied by your police..for voicing there objection to Indian rule.

Well they were protesting before too ..lot of times ,but police didnt shoot at them..Its only when ever it turned violent police has to shoot at them..

 

[GreenStar]

no one answered my question how many paramiltary troops and police do you have in Kashmir.

 

[DGMO]

:but for your knowledge WOMEN IN PAKISTAN are more liberated and free compared to india!

I'd disagree, and I've been to India to say that.

What is noticeable comparing both countries is the lack of women out in urban centres. And also, if you ask a Pakistani female, she'll tell you how much more comfortable she felt walking in an Indian city, away from the leering Pakistani men you encounter when in Pakistan. Big standout difference.

Don't get wound up, it's just the truth.

 

[GreenStar]

Well they were objecting before too ..lot of times ,but police didnt shoot at them..Its only when ever it turned violent police has to shoot at them.

If they are objecting shouldn't you listen to them....or are you trying to rule over them with an iron rod.

 

[GreenStar]

So far no militants have killied any civilians during this protest....its by the hands of your goverment......that could not bother to train it police force to counter such problems....your goverment has been very inept regards to handling public disorder.

 

[Vinod2070]

You can read the article at:

A valley riven by anger & history : World : M J Akbar : TOI Blogs

An excerpt:

General Ashfaq Parvez Kayani, the chief, was commissioned in August 1971. The other four-star general in the Pakistan army, Tariq Majeed, is due to retire on October 7, which makes him an exact contemporary. Lt Gen Khalid Shameem Wyne, chief of general staff, will lay down his baton on March 8 next year and is consequently just a few months junior. Lt Gen Syed Absar Hussain, who is in charge of Army Strategic Forces, was at the Command and Staff College in Quetta in 1971. He got his artillery commission in April 1972. Lt Gen Ahmad Shuja Pasha, director-general of the ISI, is already on extension, so is of Kayani's age. Lt Gen Javed Zia, head of Southern Command, Quetta, Lt Gen Muhammad Mustafa Khan, commanding 1 Corps, and Lt Gen Shahid Iqbal of V Corps are retiring either this year or next.

What do the men at the top of Pakistan's army have in common? They are officers of the "traumatized generation". Each joined an army that had been humiliated in the 1971 war, which ended not only in the gut-wrenching surrender of more than 90,000 troops to an Indian general, but the partition of Pakistan and the reinvention of the East as Bangladesh. The only war that Kayani has fought, barring recent civil wars of course, is the game-changing 1971 conflict.

His generation, still burning with an adolescent heartache that can never quite heal, has had a silent, consuming mission: revenge for Bangladesh through Kashmir, preferably within its career span or at least in its lifetime. The tortured angst of zealots is even more acute because in their fevered imagination, a "Muslim" army on jihad had been disgraced by a "Hindu" force. If the status of Kashmir changes in the next five years, this generation will have realized its religio-nationalist fantasy.

I have always admired this guy's ability to cut to the quick and get to the core of the issue precisely.

 

[Iggy]

If they are objecting shouldn't you listen to them....or are you trying to rule over them with an iron rod.

Why should me listen to some people who is a stooge(courtesy idune) of another country..they are objecting and want freedom in the name of religion..there are plenty of them out there who wanted to be with India..No one is stopping anyone to move to any country they want if they dont want to be under India..India is not going to be divided again in the name of religion or what ever cause.its plain and simple as that..I am sure that other countries can accommodate them since they are very much worried about their brothers..

 

[karan.1970]

Maybe they did not go to there houses....but they were still killied by your police..for voicing there objection to Indian rule.

In any country, violent objection to the rule of the country's govt amounts to treason. The only difference here is that these people are pawns of separatist forces who are the real culprits and hence the effort (acknowledged or not) of the GOI to minimize these casualties..

 

[karan.1970]

in the last 9 years over 4257 civilians have died...due to your security forces killing them...that is alot.......you seem to be defending your goverments actions..when clearly it has blood on its hands.Yes the figure has gone down....but nevertheless they are still dieing.....just because they are raising there voice........if that is the case...should all the Indians living in Malaysia be put to death....just because they are voicing for more right.

I see you changed your post from a question on number of sec forces to this pronouncement.

Anyway, past is what it is... I give marks to GoI for the improvement we see. I know it hurts some people of Pakistan( in Pakistan or outside) to see their 20 year old effort going down the drain, but its inevietable.

Indians in Malaysia are not asking for a separate state to break away from Malaysia. Now you are treading the line of absurdness..

 

[Iggy]

So far no militants have killied any civilians during this protest....its by the hands of your goverment..

those 4500 figure are not from this riot..I was answering to your question that 4500 civilians has been killed by security personals..you are now mixing both ...

that could not bother to train it police force to counter such problems....your goverment has been very inept regards to handling public disorder.

Dude as i said you are only seeing the one side of the story..Kashmiri police has been trained for COIN operations because Kashmir was suffered due to long terrorists attacks..its now the tactics has been changed because police was able to stop terrorism to a good amount..