Kashmir | News & Discussions.

[vsdoc]

Is this occupation not precisely what you struggled for against the British?

Funny, but we were taught that you struggled against the British too, alongside us .....

Or are you implying that you watched by the sidelines during the struggle, and only came forward when it was time to claim your share of the pie?

Or were you on the side of the British, fighting us?

And if you like us were fighting together against foreign occupation, pray tell what are you doing still holding on to the whole of Balochistan, who have wanted to be free and independent of pakistani rule for the past 62 years and have fought three wars of Independence against pakistan for the same since 1947?

Cause after all, if you claim Balochistan ceded to pakistan, then similarly Kashmir ceded to India.

So where is the problem or issue? Infact, unlike you, we never opportunistically invaded Balochistan like you did Kashmir ..... so are you saying we need/ed to do that to right the balance and present both regions with a mutually counter-claimed "disputed" status, before you learn to mind your business?

Confused .....

Cheers, Doc

 

[Fireurimagination]

That is not true - Pakistan and India are not the same on the Kashmir issue. Pakistan very clearly points out that it wants the Kashmiris in some formulation to be given the right to self-determination, while the Indians refuse.

We are for settling the dispute whereas India is for perpetuating the status quo and leaving Kashmiris and Kashmir divided.

Pakistan and India are different when it comes to talking the talk but when it comes to walking the walk, both want the whole of Kashmir for themselves. Pakistans stated position about self determination etc is because there is no independence clause in UN charter and/or they know India won't agree to it hence just to take moral high ground

 

[vsdoc]

We are for settling the dispute whereas India is for perpetuating the status quo and leaving Kashmiris and Kashmir divided.

May I point out the obvious to you AM?

That there was NO dispute and Kashmir was legally and officially India's till Pakistan decided it was not happy with the arrangement (nixed your two-nation theory, muslim unity, yada yada)?

That the status quo was perpetuated by Pakistan in 1947, and India's response was legitimate if delayed defense of its sovereign territory?

That it is Pakistan who is responsible for its botched up attempt to take over the WHOLE of Kashmir, thereby dividing Kashmir for posterity, and condemning an entire people to be ripped apart and live divided because of your greed ..... let down by your incompetence in finishing the job?

If you are so bothered about the status quo and dividing the kashmiri people, return the 30 odd percent of Kashmir back into the majority Indian fold.

Also arrange to take back the part you handed over to the Chinese, and reunite it with greater Indian Kashmir.

Then, and only then do you earn the moral high ground to make such statements moving forward.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Hari]

30,000 troops withdrawn from Kashmir: Antony

NEW DELHI: Defence minister A K Antony on Friday announced that the Centre has withdrawn around 30,000 troops from Jammu and Kashmir.



A K Antony said two Army divisions comprising around 30,000 troops have been moved out of Kashmir in the wake of improvement in the security situation there.

Addressing reporters Antony said, "Two Army divisions comprising around 30,000 troops have been moved out of Kashmir due to improvement in the situation there."

Antony made the announcement just days after home minister P Chidambaram informed the Parliament, that troop reduction in Jammu and Kashmir was on the cards considering improvement in the overall security situation in the northern state.

Reacting to the Chidambaram's statement, former state chief minister and union minister for new and renewable sources of energy Farooq Abdullah had said that the home minister had finally given good news to the people of Jammu and Kashmir.

"Reduction in the number of troops deployed in the state would definitely ease the tensions here and herald the beginning of peace and development in the state," Abdullah had said.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/30000-troops-withdrawn-from-Kashmir-Antony/articleshow/5351022.cms

 

[Icarus]

Come on guys, there is no military solution for Kashmir nor proxy nor any other way and if it's there it will favor India being the bigger of the two

The only hope for Pakistan was that the jihadis make life hell for India and bring India on the negotiating table which they tried their level best but again India is too big for this and after 9/11 the whole equation and outlook has changed

The only solution is making the LOC a permanent border with some exceptions here and there, mind you it won't be a very easy idea to sell in India too but it's the most logical one and I can't see any other solution as such

Also I always wanted to ask this, If Pakistan is for Kashmir’s independence then why don't they make azad Kashmir in to an independent country knowing India won't budge?

Azad Kashmir is already a free country, as i said before it already has it's own assembly and prime minister, it only shares an army with us as Azad Kashmir lacks the resources and manpower to raise an army large enough to counter India.
As for your solution of handing Kashmir to India in a platter, well i disagree, the UN pledged plebiscite should be held in Kashmir without interference from either parties(Pak and Ind) and the Kashmiris should be allowed to make their decision.

 

[Icarus]

Kakgeta - you must be joking!!
If such a thing happened it would be big news - where are the links to such an incident? If you are an eyewitness - details please ? And where do you get the figure of 300?
A handful of soldiers can't hold ground and carry out sustained attacks - that's why we have such large number of soldiers in our armies! I doubt if you are in the army. Or maybe just a sepoy feeding on propoganda?

By "Handful of soldiers" I was referring to Valiantsoul's commment that "Don't tell me Pakistan scared India into a ceasefire with it's HANDFUL OF SOLDIERS"
Secondly, it was indeed news, if you check CNN or BBC archives you will most probably find the news that an indian ammo dump blown up by Pakistani Artillery continues to burn into it's fifth day.
An interview of the CO of 649 Mujahid Battalion(the unit stationed there) with Katrina Hussein may also be on youtube somewhere.
As for the number, it's from a damage assessment, such documents don't meet civilian eyes often, so i can't give source.
Check this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001%E2%80%932002_India%E2%80%93Pakistan_standoff#Cost_of_standoff

 

[Icarus]

Funny, but we were taught that you struggled against the British too, alongside us .....

Or are you implying that you watched by the sidelines during the struggle, and only came forward when it was time to claim your share of the pie?

Or were you on the side of the British, fighting us?

And if you like us were fighting together against foreign occupation, pray tell what are you doing still holding on to the whole of Balochistan, who have wanted to be free and independent of pakistani rule for the past 62 years and have fought three wars of Independence against pakistan for the same since 1947?

Cause after all, if you claim Balochistan ceded to pakistan, then similarly Kashmir ceded to India.

So where is the problem or issue? Infact, unlike you, we never opportunistically invaded Balochistan like you did Kashmir ..... so are you saying we need/ed to do that to right the balance and present both regions with a mutually counter-claimed "disputed" status, before you learn to mind your business?

Confused .....

Cheers, Doc

WHAT ? who told you Balochistan has fought 3 wars of independance with Pakistan ? And who said that Balochistan has asked for freedom for 62 years ? There was a revolt in Bhutto's time which was resolved by Zia. Who gave amnesty to all who surrendered.
Now lets talk about today, is Balochistan 4 people ? Cuz those are the only bloody exiles asking for independance. This is not a people's demand unlike in Kashmir, it is just the demand of 4 members of 2 clans of Balochi people, hardly the whole of Balochistan...................
I think someone has been watching too much India Tv..........
LOLX

 

[Icarus]

May I point out the obvious to you AM?

That there was NO dispute and Kashmir was legally and officially India's till Pakistan decided it was not happy with the arrangement (nixed your two-nation theory, muslim unity, yada yada)?

That the status quo was perpetuated by Pakistan in 1947, and India's response was legitimate if delayed defense of its sovereign territory?

That it is Pakistan who is responsible for its botched up attempt to take over the WHOLE of Kashmir, thereby dividing Kashmir for posterity, and condemning an entire people to be ripped apart and live divided because of your greed ..... let down by your incompetence in finishing the job?

If you are so bothered about the status quo and dividing the kashmiri people, return the 30 odd percent of Kashmir back into the majority Indian fold.

Also arrange to take back the part you handed over to the Chinese, and reunite it with greater Indian Kashmir.

Then, and only then do you earn the moral high ground to make such statements moving forward.

Cheers, Doc

Firstly Pal, the two nation theory itself was a spin off from the Hindu cry of AKHAND BHARAT. Untill the congress rule of 1937(during which muslims suffered at the hands of saffron terrorists) , seperation was not part of the Muslim League's aim and objectives.
India did not protect it's SOVEREIGN TERRITORY, they made a deal with Dogra and condemned the people of Kashmir to live a life against their will and in a country they wanted freedom from.
And the people RIPPED APART by our greed are living a better life than their Indian counterparts, atleast they don't have to worry that the military will rape their women and abduct their men from home, neither do they have to worry about the extra judicial killings nor ending up in an unmarked mass grave.
Now think over this..................

 

[UchihaCG]

Then it was never part of Pakistan too. If Kashmir was a part of Pakistan, then why you have to invade it in 1947.

The Instrument of Accession is a legal document executed by Maharajah Hari Singh, ruler of the princely state of Jammu and Kashmir, on October 26, 1947. The document is highly disputed and Kashmiri separatists organizations and Pakistanis deny the existence of any such agreement between Indian Govt and Maharaja Kashmir. According to the document, With the formal acceptance of the Governor General of India, it settled the question of the accession of the Jammu and Kashmir princely state (including Jammu, Kashmir, Northern Areas, Ladakh, Trans-Karakoram Tract and Aksai Chin) to the Dominion of India.

Now, therefore, I Shriman Inder Mahander Rajrajeswar Maharajadhiraj Shri Hari Singhji, Jammu and Kashmir Naresh Tatha Tibbetadi Deshadhipathi, Ruler of Jammu and Kashmir (princely state), in the exercise of my sovereignty in and over my said State do hereby execute this my Instrument of Accession and I hereby declare that I accede to the Dominion of India with the intent that the governor-general of India, the Dominion Legislature, the Federal Court and any other Dominion authority established for the purposes of the Dominion shall, by virtue of this my Instrument of Accession but subject always to the terms thereof, and for the purposes only of the Dominion, exercise in relation to the State of Jammu and Kashmir (hereinafter referred to as "this State") such functions as may be vested in them by or under the Government of India Act, 1935, as in force in the Dominion of India, on the 15th day of August, 1947, (which Act as so in force is hereafter referred to as "the Act") ." It is further specified that. "I accept the matters specified in the schedule hereto as the matters with respect to which the Dominion Legislature may make law for this State." Thus the power of the Dominion to make laws was restricted to the matters mentioned in the Schedule namely Defence,Foreign Affairs and Communications and a few ancillary subjects specified in the schedule.For all other matters concurrence of the State Government was essential. The accession was accepted by Lord Mountbatten of Burma, Governor General of India, the following day (October 27, 1947). Mountbatten in his letter of acceptance wrote that "I do hereby accept this Instrument of Accession."

Instrument of Accession (Jammu and Kashmir) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Fireurimagination]

Azad Kashmir is already a free country, as i said before it already has it's own assembly and prime minister, it only shares an army with us as Azad Kashmir lacks the resources and manpower to raise an army large enough to counter India.
As for your solution of handing Kashmir to India in a platter, well i disagree, the UN pledged plebiscite should be held in Kashmir without interference from either parties(Pak and Ind) and the Kashmiris should be allowed to make their decision.

Azad Kashmir is azad oh is it? What if we give an assembly and prime minister to Indian Kashmir, will that be okay then, problem solved right? UN plebiscite is long dead, Kofi Annan (the then secretary general of UN) said it, Musharraf (your President ) said it and even Shimla agreement which states the issue will be resolved bilaterally was signed way after your UN resolution

 

[ghamai]

united we STAND

'n divided we fall!

I just feel bad for those indians who try to anything 'n everything to divide us while in their own countries millions of people 're trying to flee hindu aggression. shame shame

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Indeed, but first we need to clean house of your little agents, the Taliban.
I hope you will wait, we will be with you soon.

Make sure you do not come tattered to us fighting with our little Taliban agents. And this time make sure not to show your merciful heart to oppressor India and try to make it decisive this time, it is getting boring. Lets see where you go from here in the next 5 years.

 

[Red Dwarf]

Originally Posted by Valiant_Soul View Post
Well then you should hurry up. Kashmiris are being oppressed, your brave and mighty army should waste no time to come to their rescue. Don't you agree?
Make sure you do not come tattered to us fighting with our little Taliban agents. And this time make sure not to show your merciful heart to oppressor India and try to make it decisive this time, it is getting boring. Lets see where you go from here in the next 5 years.

Are you replying to your own post

 

[croptikal]

Geelani Sahab has no mass support as of today. He is obviously being funded by Pakistan(it was recently revealed by another Hurriyat leader). There is no surprise in his statements.

 

[Valiant_Soul]

Why are Indians so insistent on occupying a people and their land? Is this occupation not precisely what you struggled for against the British?

Let me try and explain to you a different viewpoint of looking at the Kashmir issue. Please drop your emotions regarding Kashmir for a while, as I have dropped mine making this post.

Any country needs to maintain its territorial integrity because it is of utmost importance to make people of the country believe that their nation is secure and capable of protecting its boundaries. One incident of violation of territorial integrity tremendously enhances the possibility of such violation in future as well, so that is not only highly shameful for a nation with such extent but will also be a dampener to the people of country and its armed forces.

Do consider that no country can afford to leave the land under its occupation for this very important reason. Now as far as suppression of people of Kashmir, Indians know that it is untrue, because violation of human rights (on such scale as suggested by some members here, but never conclusively established) cannot go unnoticed in India, the government would have to do a lot of answering otherwise. People, in general, cannot accept that kind of a set-up in their own country, let me assure with that.

Now, in general, Indians do not ask that the other side of Kashmir should be taken back because the whole of Kashmir was acceded. They are more interested in peaceful progress, and now after so many years people do not repel the idea of LoC as the international border. You as a common citizen should also be interested in peace and progress. Since you are making claims on a land that is not with you, then you are the one creating an atmosphere of disturbance.

People of Kashmir can and are living harmoniously in India and Indians do not support biasness of any sort to its citizens. If there are some problems, they would surely be tackled, as the nation becomes more mature. But it is very important for any country to stand united.

Even then if Pakistan insists, then war is the only option left for both the countries. This is as simple as it can get.