Kashmir is not India’s internal matter: Pakistan

[PoKeMon]

And if they fail to resolve their disputes bilaterally , Don`t you think that seeking a third party intervention (to avoid a future full scale war ,most probably a nuclear one) , is a rational approach indeed ??

Pakistan dont have suicidal tendencies to escalate a war on kashmir. I dont understand why people consider pakistan as someone ready to die in a wink. Kashmir is not more important for any government than enjoying ruling whatever they have.

 

[jaiind]

 

[MilSpec]

It seems you are becoming more and more Bharti everyday.

Shimla agreement or whatever, India DOES NOT consider Kashmir a dispute anymore. They are the ones who don't commit so whats the point rubbing the same sh!t in every thread ? We have been forced to either shut up or look for alternative ways.

Have you wondered why?

UNSC resolution on kashmir was more or less ratified by the ind of 1951 session, after that most of the followups pretty much held the same content as of 1952.

From 1952 to 1965 Pakistan did not keep up it's own end of the bargain to initiate the plebiscite process.

After 1965,when it expected to be welcomed by the kashmiris, instead the shocker that followed placed concrete fears that there is no chance that people from the state of jammu and kashmir will ever vote in favor of pakistan.

thus by far pakistan did not show any inkling towards resolving this the UN way, and thus after 71 war, Shimla agreement pretty much took the UN option off the table.

Pakistan has violated the UNSC security councils resolutions so many times that even bringing that up is quite surprising.

As pakistan did not co-operate for peaceful resolution of this dispute, India did not see any benefit in softening it's stand and thus in 1994 Indian Parliament reiterated historical sentiment of the country by stating the following:

On behalf of the People of India,

Firmly declares that-

(a) The State of Jammu & Kashmir has been, is and shall be an integral part of India and any attempts to separate it from the rest of the country will be resisted by all necessary means;

(b) India has the will and capacity to firmly counter all designs against its unity, sovereignty and territorial integrity;

and demands that -

(c) Pakistan must vacate the areas of the Indian State of Jammu and Kashmir, which they have occupied through aggression; and resolves that -

(d) all attempts to interfere in the internal affairs of India will be met resolutely."

The Resolution was unanimously adopted. Mr. Speaker: The Resolution is unanimously passed.

February 22, 1994

 

[American Pakistani]

For friendly relations, one has to compromise on Kashmir (NOW There is no middle solution).

Pakistan has already compromise with India numerous times. It is not Pakistan who is still beating the dead horses of Junagarh/Manvadar & Hyderabad Deccan. After Indian referendum in those territories Pakistan didn't touch those issues. Even on Kashmir issue Pakistan give the hint on backing off from it's claims on Jammu making the river as IB. If you are serious, these are big compromise. And you are shamelessly expecting for more?

Of course Vajpayee and Sharif were close to recognize LOC as IB but then you know what happened in 1999. So if such things occur then trust deficit occurs and things remain unresolved.

Can you kindly post the source that proves Sharif was close to recognize LoC as IB? It will be a suicide for any Pakistani politician to just gift off another territory of Pakistan.

I will blame Pakistan for this directly because one side the Pak Military tries to throw brick at us in LOC fire exchange and otherside Pak civilian government forces us to have dialogue. It is like forcing India to have a dialogue on a gun point. How is that possible?

This is absolutely wrong. Even former Pakistani Military chief give statement that he fully supports dialogue and after few days of his statement we see Indian army chief statements like "India is capable to take on Pakistan & China" & "cold start doctrine".

 

[Sourya Kharb]

Pakistan have no rights on Kashmir
The King of Kashmir joined India when Pakistan attacked on them.
Pakistan said that there are more Muslims than Hindu in Kashmir thats why its belong to us.
Muslims population is increasing more fast than Hindus and other minorities also...
After giving Kashmir you will Demand Assam, Kerala, Andhara Pradesh also because population of Muslims there in big amount..

 

[Screambowl]

Pakistan has already compromise with India numerous times. It is not Pakistan who is still beating the dead horses of Junagarh/Manvadar & Hyderabad Deccan. After Indian referendum in those territories Pakistan didn't touch those issues. Even on Kashmir issue Pakistan give the hint on backing off from it's claims on Jammu making the river as IB. If you are serious, these are big compromise. And you are shamelessly expecting for more?

By saying compromise, it means either India give whole Kashmir to Pakistan, or Pakistan allows India to take over Kashmir. Or recognize LOC as IB and Siachen as a part of India. Or Vice Versa.

Can you kindly post the source that proves Sharif was close to recognize LoC as IB? It will be a suicide for any Pakistani politician to just gift off another territory of Pakistan.

The Lahore Declaration and the MoU incorporated a joint commitment to intensify efforts to resolve the Kashmir conflict and other dispute, source Wiki.

This is absolutely wrong. Even former Pakistani Military chief give statement that he fully supports dialogue and after few days of his statement we see Indian army chief statements like "India is capable to take on Pakistan & China" & "cold start doctrine".

When ever some one in your country or India are about to open a dialogue, operations like kargil happen, or LOC fire exchange, and Pakistan military says, they are Kashmiri freedom fighters and Mujahid. How long will this continue?

 

[American Pakistani]

Pakistan have no rights on Kashmir
The King of Kashmir joined India when Pakistan attacked on them.
Pakistan said that there are more Muslims than Hindu in Kashmir thats why its belong to us.
Muslims population is increasing more fast than Hindus and other minorities also...
After giving Kashmir you will Demand Assam, Kerala, Andhara Pradesh also because population of Muslims there in big amount..

Then what right do you have on Junagarh/Manvadar & Hyderabad Deccan? You occupied them & held referendum even when their rulers merge their state with Pakistan. Because the majority population was Hindu so you held referendum in those states but when it comes to Kashmir you guys claim that the ruler join India, this is called the height of hypocrisy.

 

[American Pakistani]

By saying compromise, it means either India give whole Kashmir to Pakistan, or Pakistan allows India to take over Kashmir. Or recognize LOC as IB and Siachen as a part of India. Or Vice Versa.

Pakistan had already compromised a lot since 47. It is time for India to do some compromise. Why would it always be Pakistan who have to compromise.

The Lahore Declaration and the MoU incorporated a joint commitment to intensify efforts to resolve the Kashmir conflict and other dispute, source Wiki.

Sorry i didn't found your claim anywhere in the source you posted. Kindly specify the paragraph/topic which backs your claim up.

Only i see is "Chenab Formula" proposed by Pakistan & this is a huge compromise as Pakistan will withdraw it's claims from the areas that falls east of Chenab river.

When ever some one in your country or India are about to open a dialogue, operations like kargil happen, or LOC fire exchange, and Pakistan military says, they are Kashmiri freedom fighters and Mujahid. How long will this continue?

Not always from Pakistani side but many times Indian troops violate cease fire. You claim the violation starts from Pakistani side because that is what your media present. Also i give you the recent examples when Pakistani Army chief supported the dialogue & soon after that Indian Army chief was giving statements like "We can take on Pakistan & China" & so called "cold start doctrine".

 

[Screambowl]

Pakistan had already compromised a lot since 47. It is time for India to do some compromise. Why would it always be Pakistan who have to compromise.

This is what exactly I am saying, India will not compromise you will not compromise. We have learnt the mistrust in the past 3 wars. Be it the reaction of one's stance to other. You want whole of the Kashmir, India wants whole of the Kashmir.

Sorry i didn't found your claim anywhere in the source you posted. Kindly specify the paragraph/topic which backs your claim up.

Only i see is "Chenab Formula" proposed by Pakistan & this is a huge compromise as Pakistan will withdraw it's claims from the areas that falls east of Chenab river.

It says very close to a solution, I just gave an example of converting LOC to IB. Whatever it could be but both parties had accepted to resolve it now for ever. But then Kargil happened, and that was from your side.

Not always from Pakistani side but many times Indian troops violate cease fire. You claim the violation starts from Pakistani side because that is what your media present. Also i give you the recent examples when Pakistani Army chief supported the dialogue & soon after that Indian Army chief was giving statements like "We can take on Pakistan & China" & so called "cold start doctrine".

What ever your general says, it's credible but there is always a fear of groupism in Pakistan Military, like just four generals executed Kargil and military was unaware. Whom to trust has become difficult. Civilian government is total out of the ring.



PS: Under such conditions solution is not even near to the table.

 

[Abhishek_]

so PK wants kashmir, what do we gain in return? shahi kebabs?

 

[American Pakistani]

This is what exactly I am saying, India will not compromise you will not compromise. We have learnt the mistrust in the past 3 wars. Be it the reaction of one's stance to other. You want whole of the Kashmir, India wants whole of the Kashmir.

The best options are to either a)both countries pull out of Kashmir & give them independence, b)held referendum in each and every district...the districts that have more votes for Pakistan joins Pakistan...districts with more votes for India joins India...districts with more votes for freedom forms free Kashmir c)Chenab formula(proposed in early 2000's) by which the east of Chenab river becomes India & west of Chenab river becomes Pakistan, this was the proposal in the source you posted.

It says very close to a solution, I just gave an example of converting LOC to IB. Whatever it could be but both parties had accepted to resolve it now for ever. But then Kargil happened, and that was from your side.

It mentions about Chenab river formula not of converting LoC into IB. Converting LoC into IB means defeat for Pakistan & Kashmir.

What ever your general says, it's credible but there is always a fear of groupism in Pakistan Military, like just four generals executed Kargil and military was unaware. Whom to trust has become difficult. Civilian government is total out of the ring.



PS: Under such conditions solution is not even near to the table.

This is totally nonsense. It is simply impossible that Pakistan mobilizing heavy war machinery & troops & no one knows. Even Nawaz Sharif was briefed about it. Also it was not some four generals but the chief of the Army Gen Musharraf equivalent to Gen Ashfaq P Kiyani or Gen Raheel Sharif.

 

[Screambowl]

Brother you are really reading wrong books about history....

Yes i am repeating it again.. for you it could be reason that coz of Muslim dominated population Kashmir could have been in Pakistan...but as INDIA is a secular nation this logic is not buy able to us...And please google more about how last 3 wars started.
Only sensible solution could be LOC being IB but if you feel that INDIA will buy your Chenab formula or something else... I just can greet you Good morning and wake up from your dreams..

I did not propose any formula. I said they were close to a solution, be it LOC to IB demarking or Chenab. More over I pointed out the Mistrust that has been delivered by Pakistan which led to 3 wars.

 

[Abhishek_]

the question remains, what is pakistan bringing to the table?

 

[Screambowl]

The best options are to either a)both countries pull out of Kashmir & give them independence, b)held referendum in each and every district...the districts that have more votes for Pakistan joins Pakistan...districts with more votes for India joins India...districts with more votes for freedom forms free Kashmir c)Chenab formula(proposed in early 2000's) by which the east of Chenab river becomes India & west of Chenab river becomes Pakistan, this was the proposal in the source you posted.

The referendum has conditions like, all the Pakistani tribes who entered Kashmir to invade it must return. That's one condition.

Indepedent Kashmir means Azad Kashmir in Urdu, which is a part of Pakistan, not feasible for India.

It mentions about Chenab river formula not of converting LoC into IB. Converting LoC into IB means defeat for Pakistan & Kashmir.

Be it what ever, but it could have been resolved in 1999 if Musharraf and other 3 generals had not planned the misadventure.

This is totally nonsense. It is simply impossible that Pakistan mobilizing heavy war machinery & troops & no one knows. Even Nawaz Sharif was briefed about it. Also it was not some four generals but the chief of the Army Gen Musharraf equivalent to Gen Ashfaq P Kiyani or Gen Raheel Sharif.

Nawaz Shareef was briefed in May1999 but troops had moved to hill top in Mid October1998 only. Neither Navy nor Airforce or civilian government was taken under confidence. And then Nawaz Sharif asked Musharraf, does NH1 goes to Srinagar also, he was speechless had no answer, was it for Siachen or Kashmir!!

 

[INDIC]

Only i see is "Chenab Formula" proposed by Pakistan & this is a huge compromise as Pakistan will withdraw it's claims from the areas that falls east of Chenab river.

Where there is no scope for you to get even an inch of Kashmir's land, what make you think India will ever agree to this garbage called Chenab formula.

Pakistan has already compromise with India numerous times. It is not Pakistan who is still beating the dead horses of Junagarh/Manvadar & Hyderabad Deccan.

You never compromised but you lost your own foul play because of over-optimism. I have already explained you those things.