Kashmir: Declare Ahmadis non-Muslims: Grand Mufti

[AnnoyingOrange]

Not a personal attack...but its funny how you guys have turned your all inclusive fantastic religion into a a negative checklist based faith.

Whatever you say buddy.... Having a serious discussion with you guys is impossible.... Bring more personal attacks.

 

[twilight]

My friend you are in for a big shock about them, which is why they do not wish to discuss matters which shows their true colours. I am waiting for Ahmadis to defend their position here before I start bringing out their text again for all to see.

Long and short of it is that their leader Mirza Ghulam Ahmad claimsed that he is Issa (Jesus) the Promised Messiah, the Imam Mahdi, Lord Krishna, the re-incarnation of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and many many others

this is just like those useless "Bahai " ( بهایی ) , their leader -Baha ullah - claimed he is the lost prophet and technicaly that mean greatest prophet ( Hazrat Mohammad ) was a liar and Islam isn't a Godly religion ( استعفر الله ) ...

Bahai's main base is in occupy Palestine ( Haifa )and little Britain's royal family and Zionists are their main supporters .... almost all of BBC Persian members are Bahai ....
These Bahai are against Islam , they are support all anti Islam (especially Anti Shiia ) events ...

well , another thing , little Britain queen gave " Sir " title to their kaffir leader in past ....
another thing that these Bahai have problem with all religion except Jew and Wahhabism !!!
recently Saudi Arabia king meet most of them in his capital ...

These Bahai are one of the main reason that we need put an end to the fake Zionist country ( Isreal )


another question :

are little Britain and Zionist and west supporting them or not !?

 

[Thor]

this is just like those useless "Bahai " ( بهایی ) , their leader -Baha ullah - claimed he is the lost prophet and technicaly that mean greatest prophet ( Hazrat Mohammad ) was a liar and Islam isn't a Godly religion ( استعفر الله ) ...

Bahai's main base is in occupy Palestine ( Haifa )and little Britain's royal family and Zionists are their main supporters .... almost all of BBC Persian members are Bahai ....
These Bahai are against Islam , they are support all anti Islam (especially Anti Shiia ) events ...

well , another thing , little Britain queen gave " Sir " title to their kaffir leader in past ....
another thing that these Bahai have problem with all religion except Jew and Wahhabism !!!
recently Saudi Arabia king meet most of them in his capital ...

These Bahai are one of the main reason that we need put an end to the fake Zionist country ( Isreal )


another question :

are little Britain and Zionist and west supporting them or not !?

You hit the nail on the head. The British were the ones who created them in order to throw doubt about the Muslim concept of Jihad as from all the groups in India fighting the British, Hindu, Sikh, Muslims, the Muslims were the most "troublesome" for the Britishers hence they worked in this plot against Muslims. The founder Mirza ghulam Ahmad himself admits to this in his writings as follows:

"From my early age till now when I am 65 years of age, I have been engaged , with my pen and tongue, in an important task to turn the hearts of Muslims towards the true love & Goodwill & sympathy for the British Government and to obliterate the idea of Jehad from the hearts of stupid (Muslims). " (Kitab-ul-Bariyah, Roohani Khazain vol 13 p.350)

and

I am the "Self-implanted/Self-cultivated Seedling " of the British Government. "Government should take great care regarding this SELF-IMPLANTED SEEDLING . . . . .should instruct its officers to treat ME and MY JAMA'AT with special kindness and favours. Our family has never hesitated in shedding their blood in the way of British Rulers and did not stop from laying down their lives neither do they hesitate now." (Roohani Khazain vol.13 p.350)

Hence why we never trust them

The Bahai like the Ahmadis made claims, but when the Baha ullah went separate from Islam and continued with his beliefs, they were no longer the focal point of contention between the communities, and this is what the Ahmadis themselves are refusing to do and then are surprised when hostilities grow towards when having their history clearly before us as shown from the writings above.

You comments about the Zionist is true here also, but another topic and leave it for another day.....

 

[AnnoyingOrange]

Orange u have a very confused and open personality

Open...Yes I am ....Confused ..to you may be... but this comes form the fact the I am a Human at peace with himself. I don't need tokenism to respect any religion. To me a man is a man..irrespective of his faith....he needs to be treated as human first ...other things follow.

in ancient India ppl like U use to change there religion just like clothes, If the king is Muslim u become Muslim if Hindu u become hindu

Infact people like me were the ones who protected people like you from being killed by raiders and murderers in the name of faith.

now u ppl have got a convenient name as Freedom

May be...but I am living and loving it to the fullest..

its like saying i worship all gods as when i die some one will be there......... Gambling with religion

Not its like saying ....I have been a good human...so which one of you all gods need me in your house....

ppl have been doing strange things in name of freedom of WHATEVER and getting away with it

So are so called Islam Ke thekedars...Kaboom..and rattattattatta....

Ahmedes or what ever u call them have been misleading the other and giving a false image of Islam

So just because they believe in the god their way ..they have no right to live....according to your theory...anyone who does not believe in god your way should be deamonized and killed.

i guess thats why Muslims are angry

The one who has holes in his faith get angry first...

Being a fellow Indian u should all respect there feelings

And thats what I do

Its like a new sect pops up in Hindu religion and says Brahmans are not Hindu will Indians tolerate such a thing?

HHappens all the time....an we are not angry over that...infact this is an opportunity to debate and improve..

Every person has the freedom to do whatever he wishes unless his wish don't fiddle with others wishes. AND THIS IS WHAT INDIA STANDS FOR.

You got that one right.

 

[OrionHunter]

The real problem lies in the fact that mainstream Islam rejects the claim of the Ahmadiyya Community that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a Messiah. He was the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement who declared that he was the “Promised One”. Many reject the doctrine of the continuity of prophethood and all reject this claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

In 1974, Pakistan's parliament amended the country's constitution to legally define Ahmadis as non-Muslims: "A person who does not believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH), or claims to be a Prophet, or recognizes such a claimant as a Prophet or religious reformer, is not a Muslim.

So there lies the problem. With such entrenched and divergent views I don't think the twain shall ever meet.

 

[Thor]

The real problem lies in the fact that mainstream Islam rejects the claim of the Ahmadiyya Community that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a Messiah. He was the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement who declared that he was the “Promised One”. Many reject the doctrine of the continuity of prophethood and all reject this claim of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

In 1974, Pakistan's parliament amended the country's constitution to legally define Ahmadis as non-Muslims: "A person who does not believe in the absolute and unqualified finality of the Prophethood of Muhammad (PBUH), or claims to be a Prophet, or recognizes such a claimant as a Prophet or religious reformer, is not a Muslim.

So there lies the problem. With such entrenched and divergent views I don't think the twain shall ever meet.

That is in a nutshell. There are many many claims made by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad which I can bring forward here. But like what twilight bought out, the Bahai faith always was an offshoot from Islam, yet they declared themselves a separate faith and as such moved away from Islam and Muslims. Yes they too are still seen with suspicious and their actions highlight concern for Muslims, nonetheless they are out of the fold of Islam and left to it. The problem here is Ahmadis claim to this title and declare all others and Kaffir and by latching to this stubbornness, they endure the wrath of Muslims as they are seen as hie racy and a threat which cannot be ignored.

As shown above from the writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, there is very very good reason to suspect them. as shown below again.

"From my early age till now when I am 65 years of age, I have been engaged , with my pen and tongue, in an important task to turn the hearts of Muslims towards the true love & Goodwill & sympathy for the British Government and to obliterate the idea of Jehad from the hearts of stupid (Muslims). " (Kitab-ul-Bariyah, Roohani Khazain vol 13 p.350)

and

I am the "Self-implanted/Self-cultivated Seedling " of the British Government. "Government should take great care regarding this SELF-IMPLANTED SEEDLING . . . . .should instruct its officers to treat ME and MY JAMA'AT with special kindness and favours. Our family has never hesitated in shedding their blood in the way of British Rulers and did not stop from laying down their lives neither do they hesitate now." (Roohani Khazain vol.13 p.350)

 

[Tiger Awan]

Why people dont understand that Islam is not their property. You must follow a certain set of principles to become a Muslim and if you dont then you are a non-Muslim. Ahmadis dont follow so they are non-Muslims

 

[harpoon]

Why people dont understand that Islam is not their property. You must follow a certain set of principles to become a Muslim and if you dont then you are a non-Muslim. Ahmadis dont follow so they are non-Muslims

May be for you but under Indian law if anybody calls himself Muslim, he is a Muslim. The same applies to other religions also.

 

[Tiger Awan]

May be for you but under Indian law if anybody calls himself Muslim, he is a Muslim. The same applies to other religions also.

Indian constitution Just like solving a Math problem from English book

Its just the case of respecting Muslim's belief and looks like Indian constitution failed to do so

 

[Thor]

Indian constitution Just like solving a Math problem from English book

Its just the case of respecting Muslim's belief and looks like Indian constitution failed to do so

The thing is, these Indians seriously think Islam will rotate around their Indian Constitution........... this has never happenned in 1400 years and will never happen in another 1400 years......... Nonetheless, the issue is about Ahmadis and when they themselves declare others as Kaffirs, then they shouldnt be too surprised when the same happens to them.......

And if we go into the topic of Constitution, then the issue of Kashmir itself will have to be bought out, and by that standard, the people of kashmir itself are occupied therefore another argument for another thread./.............

 

[harpoon]

Indian constitution Just like solving a Math problem from English book

Its just the case of respecting Muslim's belief and looks like Indian constitution failed to do so

Indian Constitution has to not only respect the views of Sunnis, but also every other sects of Islam including Ahmedis even if other sects are uncomfortable with this.

 

[Tiger Awan]

Indian Constitution has to not only respect the views of Sunnis, but also every other sects of Islam including Ahmedis even if other sects are uncomfortable with this.

or in other words Indian constitution give Ahmedis pirority over other

Ahmediyat is not a sect of Islam and it has been proven many time

 

[ashokdeiva]

Orange u have a very confused and open personality
in ancient India ppl like U use to change there religion just like clothes, If the king is Muslim u become Muslim if Hindu u become hindu
now u ppl have got a convenient name as Freedom

its like saying i worship all gods as when i die some one will be there......... Gambling with religion

ppl have been doing strange things in name of freedom of WHATEVER and getting away with it

Ahmedes or what ever u call them have been misleading the other and giving a false image of Islam

i guess thats why Muslims are angry

Being a fellow Indian u should all respect there feelings

Its like a new sect pops up in Hindu religion and says Brahmans are not Hindu will Indians tolerate such a thing?
Every person has the freedom to do whatever he wishes unless his wish don't fiddle with others wishes. AND THIS IS WHAT INDIA STANDS FOR.

for the bold part, we are too tolerant and this thing will not even bother one in INDIA. The Bramins themself will ignore this as they no which religion they belong too.
The problem with Shia and Sunni Muslims is that they are not sure if they are Muslims and to make sure they are muslims they are telling the state to declare Ahamadis as non muslims which is a sort of insecure feeling

 

[matrixmikeneo]

or in other words Indian constitution give Ahmedis pirority over other

Ahmediyat is not a sect of Islam and it has been proven many time

when u r the lawyer and the judge- both! u can prove whatever u want and even declare the guilty and pronounce the punishment... seriously, what all u pakistani guys are not understanding is that none of the Indians here is questioning ur "faith".. what we mean simply is: plz respect other humans and let them live their life in the way they want...

 

[Thor]

for the bold part, we are too tolerant and this thing will not even bother one in INDIA. The Bramins themself will ignore this as they no which religion they belong too.
The problem with Shia and Sunni Muslims is that they are not sure if they are Muslims and to make sure they are muslims they are telling the state to declare Ahamadis as non muslims which is a sort of insecure feeling

If you go by the mentality of individual Muslims then you can see it that way, however Sunni/Shia means nothing, both parties with whetever there views about certains topics are Muslim.

Your above comment about being too tolerant, Brahmins cannot even accept Dalits/Shudras let alone a group coming forward to claim to be Krishna and declare Brahmins evil and start misguiding their youth. Recently the Christians did that and began conversions of Hindu youth and they were killed, so please dont tell us about tolerance with Hindus.....