Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia's torture: Violations by Pakistan unacceptable

[karan.1970]

Yet we gave them gallantry awards and regularised NLI as part of Pak Army?hundreds of graves? where in ur dream country where little blue elfs live and your their king?....... grow up man..... stop believing in fairy tales spoon fed to you by your incompetent and foolish media.

All the awards etc etc took years and years post Kargil..and about 100's of graves, well, you should ask your Prime minister of that time..

 

[Spring Onion]

Ppl asking why we dinn torture the 90000 PoW in 1971 bcoz we are not low life blood sucking insects like Pakistanis, they are even worst than animals. We are Indians, unlike the "Pure Ppl" we are humans.

You are the ONLY low life around.

You are an Indian well yes we know that.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

No you didn't ask me for any proof. Look again at the post I replied to.

I told you you may call disown them if you want to. It doesn't matter whether it was done by your soldiers or your mujahideen. Or is it ok if your mujahideen did it? Are people who describe themselves as "mujahideen" not expected to live up to basic human standards? Are they by definition lower than humans? Is that what you are saying?

You do make a point actually. Hard not to agree with that to be honest.

I wish that logic applied when you facilitated terrorist activity in Sri Lanka where civilians - not soldiers - suffered the most.

 

[Spring Onion]

You have weird definition of Humiliation. His father is asking for justice. He sent his son to fight for the country. He expected that the enemy country won't breach international conventions if his son was captured. He is asking for one simple thing. Why was his son tortured and his body mutilated ?

How is he disrespecting his son ?

Its just the matter of a father seeking justice of his son.

But people here are bringing other cases as a defense. Some other soldier of your country got tortured but does it justify what was done to this soldier ?

I agree, India may have done some breach of international conventions, but does it gives your army use it as an excuse. Hey, you did to our X soldier, we will do this to Y soldier. Its fault of both the nation. Not just one.

But the suffering ones are the brave soldiers of our countries who are fighting against each other because people like here are happily living in their rooms and passing on hatred for years.

No one can understand what these soldiers go through and what they really want. They just want peace and honor and even if captured, treated with dignity. We failed to give that.

Indian Army also informed about bravery of a Pakistani soldier which resulted in Nishan-e-Haider awarded to him. Why people forget it ? I never saw anyone from Pakistan admiring Indian Army's professionalism in this particular case.

Either discuss this particular case or stop the discussion altogether.

KRAIT there is NO proof that Pakistan army had tortured him. If he was alive there is NO reason he was tortured to death as POW just like the other Indian soldier whom we returned safe and sound, it was a good chance for us to parade this one as well and release him on humanatariacn grounds. and if he was dead already in shootout then there was also NO reason to tourture a dead body.


Isnt there any possibility the Indian army tortured his dead body to make Pakistani soldier look inhuman in eyes of the people.?


2. An officer who was executing Tiger Hill operation from Pakistani side was all tears for a dead Indian soldier from whom's pocket he found a letter wherein the Indian soldier had wrote to his wife about school fee of their kid.

3. The Pakistani army is professional enough and more disciplined than Indian army to obey international laws.

4. It remains to be seen who tortured the Indian soldier.


Last but NOT the least whoever done this is indeed condemnable and there is NO point of supporting my country IF at all it was done by my country.

 

[Hellraiser007]

The only one humiliating the dead soldier is his father- he should let his son go-
He died for his country- that what a soldier suppose to do-
Accept the fate- Be proud- Dont humiliate him further-

This soldier did what he has to do for his country and there are rules with which wars are fought and His father is fighting for this cause.
A noble cause and kudos for the father of this brave soldier.

 

[Pakistani sipahi]

This is indeed condemnable even if it was my country .
But on the other hand you also have some indian prisoners praising the kind treatment of Pakistanis towards them .

 

[janon]

Last but NOT the least whoever done this is indeed condemnable and there is NO point of supporting my country IF at all it was done by my country.

Thanks for admitting at least that much. That is all that the soldier's father wants to hear as well.

Unfortunately, even that much is beyond many Pakistanis on this thread, who keep making up excuses that since it was done by your mujahideen (as they claim), it is all right. That is simply an admission that you don't expect your so called mujahids to live up to standards of humanity. I'm not talking about your words, but the words that other Pakistanis have been saying, either that this is all part of war (It shouldn't be) or that it was the mujahids who did it (which isn't an excuse anyway).

 

[KRAIT]

KRAIT there is NO proof that Pakistan army had tortured him. If he was alive there is NO reason he was tortured to death as POW just like the other Indian soldier whom we returned safe and sound, it was a good chance for us to parade this one as well and release him on humanatariacn grounds. and if he was dead already in shootout then there was also NO reason to tourture a dead body.
Isnt there any possibility the Indian army tortured his dead body to make Pakistani soldier look inhuman in eyes of the people.?
2. An officer who was executing Tiger Hill operation from Pakistani side was all tears for a dead Indian soldier from whom's pocket he found a letter wherein the Indian soldier had wrote to his wife about school fee of their kid.
3. The Pakistani army is professional enough and more disciplined than Indian army to obey international laws.
4. It remains to be seen who tortured the Indian soldier.
Last but NOT the least whoever done this is indeed condemnable and there is NO point of supporting my country IF at all it was done by my country.

Ma'am what I am trying to say that in war, both countries have done many things that we don't know of. I don't blame any of them, soldiers are too emotional sometimes over death of their fellow soldiers that they take out their sadness in form of torture on enemy soldiers.

It has been happening for centuries. Its basic human nature. People do unimaginable things especially in wars. We have seen it in Auschwitz, Nanjing, Somalia etc. Its up to our army to maintain the discipline and offer full protection to captured enemy soldiers. Even if there is any breach, we should find and prosecute the guilty one.

For me any soldier don't deserve torture whether he is an Indian or Pakistani. If Indian Army did something wrong with Pakistani soldier, I am in support in for prosecuting guilty Indian soldiers and I expect same from Pakistani side.

All I want to say that we should rather investigate and cooperate to find out the culprits as it is shame for both the armies of the countries.

As for Pakistani soldier crying for dead Indian soldier, people usually don't share these type of info on this forum. Thanks for sharing it. Only a soldier can understand the pain of a soldier.

 

[Abu Zolfiqar]

KRAIT there is NO proof that Pakistan army had tortured him. If he was alive there is NO reason he was tortured to death as POW just like the other Indian soldier whom we returned safe and sound, it was a good chance for us to parade this one as well and release him on humanatariacn grounds. and if he was dead already in shootout then there was also NO reason to tourture a dead body.


Isnt there any possibility the Indian army tortured his dead body to make Pakistani soldier look inhuman in eyes of the people.?


2. An officer who was executing Tiger Hill operation from Pakistani side was all tears for a dead Indian soldier from whom's pocket he found a letter wherein the Indian soldier had wrote to his wife about school fee of their kid.

3. The Pakistani army is professional enough and more disciplined than Indian army to obey international laws.

4. It remains to be seen who tortured the Indian soldier.


Last but NOT the least whoever done this is indeed condemnable and there is NO point of supporting my country IF at all it was done by my country.

Bingo. . Spot on

 

[janon]

This is indeed condemnable even if it was my country .
But on the other hand you also have some indian prisoners praising the kind treatment of Pakistanis towards them .

Sure, and we are not discounting that. Both sides have treated each other decently for the most part in all the wars they have fought. But if incidents like this have happened, they cannot be justified, either by saying that "$hit happens" (as several Pakistanis said here), or that it was done by mujahids (as if they are not bred from the same society).

And if Indians have tortured a single Pakistani PoW, that is condemnable, and we won't make excuses for it. I would be happy to see the indian soldiers responsible for that put behind bars, if that has actually happened. We expect very high standards from our men and women in uniform.

 

[Spring Onion]

Thanks for admitting at least that much. That is all that the soldier's father wants to hear as well.

Unfortunately, even that much is beyond many Pakistanis on this thread, who keep making up excuses that since it was done by your mujahideen (as they claim), it is all right. That is simply an admission that you don't expect your so called mujahids to live up to standards of humanity. I'm not talking about your words, but the words that other Pakistanis have been saying, either that this is all part of war (It shouldn't be) or that it was the mujahids who did it (which isn't an excuse anyway).

As Krait said there needs a proper investigation into the incident and if Pakistan was found guilty i am sure you will see sympathy even at official level from us.


Nobody atleast from our side supports torture of any solider/POW or dead.

2. in this case our so-called "mujahideen" were the generation of those Kashmiris whom your Indian army burried alive in Indian Occupied Kashmir, who's women were raped by your Indian army in occupied Kashmir hence expecting or talking about standards of humanity in such cases well its just unjust crying.

 

[janon]

As Krait said there needs a proper investigation into the incident and if Pakistan was found guilty i am sure you will see sympathy even at official level from us.


Nobody atleast from our side supports torture of any solider/POW or dead.

2. in this case our so-called "mujahideen" were the generation of those Kashmiris whom your Indian army burried alive in Indian Occupied Kashmir, who's women were raped by your Indian army in occupied Kashmir hence expecting or talking about standards of humanity in such cases well its just unjust crying.

Now you are clutching at straws and spewing the same fiction that your country always makes to justify your coveting our lands. If pressed further, I am sure you would show me links from websites like "greaterkashmir" like another Pakistani did a few pages earlier. Just as you said that the pak army doesn't need to torture a captured PoW (and I agree), Indian army doesn't need to torture or murder or rape people of Indian Kashmir, who are as much Indians as anybody else.

No, your mujahids don't come here because their parents were raped by the Indian army. In fact most of the infiltrators we have sent to mass graves recently are Punjabi youths from Pakistan. They come here because at a young age they buy into this fiction that older people like yourself propogate about the slaughter of muslims by india in Kashmir and so on. When the reality is that, as I said before, the Indian army has shed its costly blood to ensure peace and prosperity for Indian kashmiris from Pakistani terrorists and insurgents. When most of the infantry regiments deployed on the frontlines are kashmiris, and kashmiris make up a big proportion of the indian infantry. (There are at least three regiments in the Indian army with majority kashmiris, while there is only one from the entire south India.)

 

[JonAsad]

This soldier did what he has to do for his country and there are rules with which wars are fought and His father is fighting for this cause.
A noble cause and kudos for the father of this brave soldier.

Which rules? You can gun down and enemy soldier- blast him- knife him to death- yes some are tortured- even amrika the founder is in violation of many POW rights- Guantanamo Bay- Water boarding and what not-

In the end in a war we all are hatred laden human beings- some surrender- some are shot while surrendering- Human history is full of such bloody inhumane behavior called the War-

Whats the dignity in killing some one?- Fighting for a cause and you will be dead- some die instantly- some die a slow painful death- some survive to live the rest of their misery disabled-

Historically we are good at each other POW's- few bad incidents here and there doesn't mean we are unprofessional lunatics- while the saints like you fire tranquilizer darts to win battles-

In the end it was a war and in war sh!t happened from both sides-

His son died for his country this is an honor in itself- what more honor you can do to the dead soldier- I am sure he is in peace that he died for his country- what his father trying to do is dishonoring his sacrifice-

 

[Manas]

In war sh!t happens- i bet those so called soldiers were mujahideens-

U know it very well Mujahideens weren't involved in the kargil operations . So presence of any mujaheddin is out question.

What they did to that 22 year boy and his platoon was barbaric and revels the extent of hatred PA holds for Indian army.

These are people who we treated humanely when we had 93000 oft them in our custody.

 

[janon]

Which rules? You can gun down and enemy soldier- blast him- knife him to death- yes some are tortured- even amrika the founder is in violation of many POW rights- Guantanamo Bay- Water boarding and what not-

In the end in a war we all are hatred laden human beings- some surrender- some are shot while surrendering- Human history is full of such bloody inhumane behavior called the War-

Whats the dignity in killing some one?- Fighting for a cause and you will be dead- some die instantly- some die a slow painful death- some survive to live the rest of their misery disabled-

Historically we are good at each other POW's- few bad incidents here and there doesn't mean we are unprofessional lunatics- while the saints like you fire tranquilizer darts to win battles-

In the end it was a war and in war sh!t happened from both sides-

His son died for his country this is an honor in itself- what more honor you can do to the dead soldier- I am sure he is in peace that he died for his country- what his father trying to do is dishonoring his sacrifice-

Yes, such rules exist, whether you are aware of them or not. Nuremberg laws, Geneva conventions etc are the presently accepted rules.

Of course we are all proud that he fought and died for the country. When his funeral was going on his hometown, the entire village was shouting "Jab tak suraj chaand rahega, Saurabh tera naam rahega!"

But that doesn't mean that his parents should give up their fight for an apology for the torture of their son. As mentioned before, nobody is asking for an apology for the 500 other soldiers who died. Only this one, because he was tortured and kidnapped in breach of well established laws of war. Laws which are existing and well known, and taught to officers in college. Just because you seem unaware of the existence of the rules doesn't mean the rules don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_of_war