Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia's torture: Violations by Pakistan unacceptable

[turkish]

Here is the proof that these mujaheddins were your soldiers

 

[ajtr]

There has been lot of discussions on this particular topic. And it always end up in verbal diarrhea and exchanges of bad words. It has already resulted in many infractions and bans still any thread related or discussion related to this topic end up same.

Move on and find another topic.

http://www.defence.pk/forums/suggestions-discussions/221619-why-my-thread-removed.html#post3648904

 

[KRAIT]

http://www.defence.pk/forums/suggestions-discussions/221619-why-my-thread-removed.html#post3648904

Bhains ki eyes......what's this.

If you mean by Kargil thread, well I am bored with these Kargil, 1962, 1971 threads. Already said to close this thread couple of times. Lets see when mods will close this one.

 

[OrionHunter]

Yup like you got concrete proof they were Pak army soldiers-

Obviously they were. Some terrorists were used only as porters. The troops occupying the Kargil Heights weren't from Mars either! The following Pak troops were deployed there:

Special Services Group
Seven battalions of the Northern Light Infantry
Logistics units located at the base camp at Muntho Dhalo.

So you still think that some rag tag militants indulged in the torture? One would be naive to think so. Or probably an illiterate. Or someone who doesn't want to face the truth.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

Kargil martyr Saurabh Kalia's torture: Violations by Pakistan unacceptable, says government | NDTV.com

New Delhi: The father of Kargil martyr Captain Saurabh Kalia, who was made captive and subjected to brutal torture by the Pakistan Army in 1999, has moved the Supreme Court seeking its direction to the Union Government to take up his son's case at the International Court of Justice.

In his petition to the Supreme Court, Dr. NK Kalia, a retired scientist, has asked the Indian Government to get Pakistan to apologise for the incident, alleging that the latter violated all norms of the Geneva Convention that charts out protocols for treatment meted out of prisoners of war.

While terming the violations as "completely unacceptable", the government said that it would do "whatever is possible" in the case. "Whatever is possible would be done but I do not want to give you a commitment now of any nature of what is possible or what is being done...This is a matter we have taken up at the highest level over the years and we have not yet been able to get adequate stands of the matter being addressed, that is absolutely true," said External Affairs Minister Salman Khurshid.



The Kalias have been waging a lonely battle for justice for their son, who was a victim of war atrocities.

Captain Kalia, of the 4 Jat Regiment, was the first army officer to report the incursion by the Pakistani Army on Indian soil. He along with five soldiers - sepoys Arjun Ram, Bhanwar Lal Bagaria, Bhika Ram, Moola Ram and Naresh Singh - were on a patrol of the Bajrang Post in the Kaksar sector of Jammu and Kashmir when they were taken captive by Pakistani troops May 15, 1999.

They were tortured for weeks before being killed. Their mutilated bodies were handed over to the Indian authorities on June 9 that year.

The elderly couple, settled in his tea garden town, about 120 km from the state capital Shimla, wants the Indian government to highlight the atrocities committed by the Pakistani Army internationally.

British lawyer of Indian origin Jas Uppal, who has launched an international campaign to highlight the plight of Saurabh and five other soldiers, has been helping the Kalias to petition the Supreme Court.

She has been demanding the blacklisting of Pakistan for the purpose of giving international aid.

India and Pakistan fought a limited war over the icy heights of Kargil in Jammu and Kashmir in May-July 1999. India took back all the positions that had been occupied by the Pakistani Army.

India lost 527 soldiers and Pakistan upwards of 700 men.

(With IANS inputs)

Whats more
LOL the POWs r subjected to such things n why now his father has awakened after 13 years. I think its another Tactic of RAW to make their Gov under more pressure not to pursue relations with Pakistan.
And by the way they have forgotten about Sepoy Makbool Ahmed also why r they calling him as a martyr/shaheed as he is a non muslim n the purpose of this fight was not for the All Mighty.
as Shaheed is an Arabic word used for a Muslim warrior who fights in the way of The All Mighty not any none believer who may fight for his own agenda rather the right path.
and the highlighted figure is also joke

 

[StormShadow]

 

[JonAsad]

Obviously they were. Some terrorists were used only as porters. The troops occupying the Kargil Heights weren't from Mars either! The following Pak troops were deployed there:

Special Services Group
Seven battalions of the Northern Light Infantry
Logistics units located at the base camp at Muntho Dhalo.

So you still think that some rag tag militants indulged in the torture? One would be naive to think so. Or probably an illiterate. Or someone who doesn't want to face the truth.

Well there is a pretty equal chance that some rag tag terrorists did the torturing- otherwise i dont think Pak army is unprofessional- thats what i believe-

 

[JonAsad]

Anyway look at what you are doing now - you are claiming that the entire kargil war was fought by India against mujahideens from India, and not masterminded by musharaf. I know pakuistanis live in denial about everything, but this is getting ridiculous. I wont continue indulging this nonsense, sorry. Pakistan indulged in the kargil war, lost the war, didn't gain anything, end of story. A story that has repeated several times in the history of the subcontinent, and will keep repeating as long as Pakistanis continue to live in denial of their shameful history.

You are wrong- you are reading only what you want to read- i never said that Pakistani army was not involved- nor i am in denial-
All i am saying is that the soldier was tortured by the mujahideen- and the responsibility doesn't fall on Pak Army-

And plz stop the usual rhetorics there is no need to talk and then brag about totally something else-

 

[Joe Shearer]

Whats more
LOL the POWs r subjected to such things n why now his father has awakened after 13 years. I think its another Tactic of RAW to make their Gov under more pressure not to pursue relations with Pakistan.
And by the way they have forgotten about Sepoy Makbool Ahmed also why r they calling him as a martyr/shaheed as he is a non muslim n the purpose of this fight was not for the All Mighty.
as Shaheed is an Arabic word used for a Muslim warrior who fights in the way of The All Mighty not any none believer who may fight for his own agenda rather the right path.
and the highlighted figure is also joke

I am maintaining my calm under extreme provocation.

POWs are not subjected to such things, never. There are international laws to this effect, international conventions, and Pakistan has signed each of these.

Saurabh Kalia's father has been asking for justice right through. It is not new. R&W has nothing to do with it. Unlike your country, our intelligence agency does not run our country.

Shaheed is a word in common use in Urdu, as in Shaheed Bhagat Singh, and has nothing to do with your bigoted religious practices, or with your country's determination to wrap itself in the flag of the Ummah.

Only a sick pervert would find casualty figures funny.

 

[Kloitra]

You are wrong- you are reading only what you want to read- i never said that Pakistani army was not involved- nor i am in denial-
All i am saying is that the soldier was tortured by the mujahideen- and the responsibility doesn't fall on Pak Army-

And plz stop the usual rhetorics there is no need to talk and then brag about totally something else-

Or may be the PA was under impression that they will get away with impersonating the mujahideens!

I would remind you that PA did some of the most unprofessional acts during that period. If occupying peaks of Kargil doesn't amount to that, than a military coup surely does.

 

[JonAsad]

Or may be the PA was under impression that they will get away with impersonating the mujahideens!

I would remind you that PA did some of the most unprofessional acts during that period. If occupying peaks of Kargil doesn't amount to that, than a military coup surely does.

Maybe returning the POW alive in one piece was one of them- -

 

[Kloitra]

Maybe returning the POW alive in one piece was one of them- -

May be you didn't read the article.

They were tortured for weeks before being killed. Their mutilated bodies were handed over to the Indian authorities on June 9 that year.

Or dead, mutilated bodies means alive in one piece to you.

Any ways, my point was against your belief that

Well there is a pretty equal chance that some rag tag terrorists did the torturing- otherwise i dont think Pak army is unprofessional- thats what i believe-

Certain elements in PA were not so professional, were they?! And is it hard to believe that some of them might do this?
It seems quite far fetched that PA 'rescued' the bodies from mujaheedins and handed them over to Indian authorities.

 

[Umair Nawaz]

I am maintaining my calm under extreme provocation.

POWs are not subjected to such things, never. There are international laws to this effect, international conventions, and Pakistan has signed each of these.

Saurabh Kalia's father has been asking for justice right through. It is not new. R&W has nothing to do with it. Unlike your country, our intelligence agency does not run our country.

Shaheed is a word in common use in Urdu, as in Shaheed Bhagat Singh, and has nothing to do with your bigoted religious practices, or with your country's determination to wrap itself in the flag of the Ummah.

Only a sick pervert would find casualty figures funny.

Bhai jan,
Urdu is drived from many languages n this word shaheed or shahadat is arabic word n it is used for Muslims only n not for everyone but for only those who die while serving islam or the path of the God, thats true there is no denying that.Bhagat Singh had died along side muslims fighting british who had invaded the country n were killing muslims n hindus all together but they had killed muslims more as they took the gov from muslims back then. Hence their hate for muslims were more as they used to think them as their rivals in challenging gov then non muslims. Further no one calls him a Shaheed here in our country because even he still fought along side us but still had died as a non believer sadly.

Defiantly, our country have signed that but it no ware says that if others do the same that the law says dont do (ie india who hs also signed it) so still u behave like a cute little angle. What u had done to Sepoy Makbool is not hidden from anyone.

 

[seethru]

Bhai jan,
Urdu is drived from many languages n this word shaheed or shahadat is arabic word n it is used for Muslims only n not for everyone but for only those who die while serving islam or the path of the God, thats true there is no denying that.Bhagat Singh had died along side muslims fighting british who had invaded the country n were killing muslims n hindus all together but they had killed muslims more as they took the gov from muslims back then. Hence their hate for muslims were more as they used to think them as their rivals in challenging gov then non muslims.

Defiantly, our country have signed that but it no ware says that if others do the same that the law says dont do (ie india who hs also signed it) so still u behave like a cute little angle. What u had done to Sepoy Makbool is not hidden from anyone.

Tell me You are not real!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Bhai jan,
Urdu is drived from many languages n this word shaheed or shahadat is arabic word n it is used for Muslims only n not for everyone but for only those who die while serving islam or the path of the God, thats true there is no denying that.Bhagat Singh had died along side muslims fighting british who had invaded the country n were killing muslims n hindus all together but they had killed muslims more as they took the gov from muslims back then. Hence their hate for muslims were more as they used to think them as their rivals in challenging gov then non muslims. Further no one calls him a Shaheed here in our country because even he still fought along side us but still had died as a non believer sadly.

Defiantly, our country have signed that but it no ware says that if others do the same that the law says dont do (ie india who hs also signed it) so still u behave like a cute little angle. What u had done to Sepoy Makbool is not hidden from anyone.

Bhaijan,

I see that you specialise in verbiage meaning nothing. What a word means in its original language and what it means in a borrowed form are vastly different. Surely you do not want public instruction in this. What shaheed or shahadat means in Arabic means nothing to people who are neither Arabic nor speak nor wish to speak Arabic. Try not to imagine that words are reserved for you by divine decree; it gets a little ludicrous at that point.

I notice that as you wrote on, your own position seemed so flimsy and indefensible that you found it necessary to add an escape clause, and added the path of 'the God'. As it happens, Bhagat Singh fought for his country and for secular ideals, not for the Muslims or the Hindus or the Sikhs or any other community. He was an atheistic socialist and wrote eloquently about his beliefs. We call him Shaheed because he died for his country, his cause, just as we call all those others who died for their country Shaheed. It seems so silly to be told that this is a reserved word, for while it may be so to some of us, it is not so for others.

What your country calls him hardly matters. You are not the arbiters of these matters.

You say that your country signed the Geneva Conventions 'defiantly'. Frankly, in case you are not aware, these are not options that you can pick and choose. These are not subject to the judgement of some moronic religious leader in a small town in a narrow-minded country, but are universal pacts.

They do not have an escape clause, that signatories are exempted from their operations if they are violated by the opposition. First, that is begging the question, and second, you need to acquire a sounder foundation in these matters before offering such an obviously stupid explanation in public. Stick to subjects in school and leave these for others. Subjects like spelling, for instance, which would inform you that you are charming but obtuse.