K8 Karakoram

[wangrong]

3、CJ6---K8---L15/J10S---J10
4、CJ6---K8---L15/SU27UB---SU27/J11/SU30
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First,L15 is cheaper than J10S/SU27UB

 

[wangrong]

Second,L15---SU33/JXX(navy air force)

A trainer with two engines is more safe than a trainer with single engine. （Aircraft carrier ）



Russia's SU25UTG

 

[wangrong]

Third,air to ground

 

[Munir]

I think that with advanced training PAF has enough oppertunities with K8. It is even handy for weapon training. If pilots convert to opertational sqaudrons they will get inhouse upgrade. Adding another plane is reducing operational squadrons. The latest K8P is pretty decent plane and extremely cheap. And it is developed by Pakistan and China. Something surely is not the case with L15. We make spare parts for out K8. We are not going to do that also for the L15... We get share ifd K8 is sold to foreign customers. With L15 we will get nothing. So... I think we can stay with K8 cause it has more advantages and it is also used as advanced trainer and weapon training. Going supersonic is nice but is is a small extra not worth the extra costs etc.

I do not know whether is has been done before... Quoting your own text... But I told some friends that K8 suits advanced training cause supersonic has just a minor importance... I think there is another publication that hits same target. UAE did not go for the supersonic superduper T50 but for the supersonic Aeromachi...

Here...

>>>T-50 Jet 'Overbuilt' for Its Own Good


Singapore Bid Set to Make or Break Advanced Trainer’s Future

There are more reasons than meet the eye for last month's bidding failure of the T-50 Golden Eagle, Korea's advanced trainer jet, chief of which is its price policy shortcoming, experts say.

Korea Aerospace Industries (KAI), Korea's only aerospace firm, lost in a competition to supply next-generation military jet trainers to the United Arab Emirates (UAE). The Middle Eastern country selected the M-346, by Italy's Alenia Aermacchi, as the preferred aircraft in the $1.3 billion deal, which included the building of 48 jets.

``Although the UAE acknowledged the T-50 has remarkably high quality, the country apparently put more value on cooperative projects in the aerospace industry that the Italian side pledged,'' the Ministry of Knowledge Economy said in a statement, which also pointed out a disadvantage in price.

A T-50 jet's flyaway cost is set at 20 billion won to 25 billion won ($13.5 - $16.9 million), while the M-346 costs 18 billion won to 20 billion won.

KAI said superiority in quality led to the higher price. The T-50's engine generates 1.4 times more power than the M-346, and the jet trainer's Mach 1.5 speed is superior to the Mach 0.9 of its Italian rival, according to the company.

A military expert claimed, however, that overly high quality led to failure in the end in a false effort to cram too much into a product that didn't need to be equipped with state-of-the-art features.

``It's just like trying to sell a Lamborghini to a driving school,'' military expert Kim Seong-jeon said. ``The market for trainer jets can't be a luxury market. Even its supersonic speed doesn't give it a critical edge because it's not pivotal for advanced trainer jets.''

Supersonic flights are not necessary in an advanced flight-training program, he added. The core elements of the course consist of in-air operation, take-off and landing, and blind flying.

Manufacturing of supersonic trainer jets ends in a steep surge of its prime cost due to the superfluous features, according to the former wing commander, and this makes it non-price competitive.

``The price gap between the two jets per unit makes a huge difference,'' Kim said. ``Some might say the government didn't give KAI enough support, but it makes no sense to blame it on a lack of marketing and other support as long as the product has a basic price problem.''

All of its problems trace back to its origins. The T-50's development originally started as a domestic supply scheme for the Korean Air Force, which strongly opposed the plan first because of small demand.

The Korean Air Force needs 50 trainer jets at most, and the interval between each procurement could be long, as they can be in use for over 40 years. Consequently, export emerged as the solution to keep the project going.

Advocates of the T-50 say once it blazes the selling trail, in spite of the price, there will be more opportunities in the global market.

An industry source, however, said on condition of anonymity that kind of logic ``could apply to the auto industry, where mass production is possible, but it's highly unlikely for trainer jets.''

``The overall size of the defense industry is shrinking across the world and trainer jets take up a very small and limited share of it. At the end of the day, Korea can't expect to export the T-50 in large quantities,'' he said.

 

[fatman17]

JL-8/K-8 Karakorum/Mighty Eagle

The aircraft was developed jointly by Hongdu Aviation Industrial Group (HAIG) and Pakistan Aeronautical Complex (PAC) in the late 80s with Pakistan providing 25% of the funding. It has max TO weight of 4,468kg, max level speed 800km/h, max climb rate 30m/s, max range 2,140km and ceiling 13,600m.

Only 6 K-8s were delivered to Pakistan in 1994 by HAIC. 6 more were delivered in 2003.

Meanwhile the domestic JL-8 (also known as K-8J) which first flew in 1996 is currently in production. They are in service at the PLAAF and PLAN flight academies (serial # 74x8x, 70x3x, 70x5x, 71x3x, 71x4x, 71x5x, 71x7x, 63x3x, 63x4x, 6xx73, 84x0x), replacing the obsolete JJ-5s.

However due to the US embargo on Allied Signal TFE731-2A turbofan, they have been powered by Ukrainian AI-25TLK turbofans, and is eventually to be powered by a locally designed WS-11 (an AI-25TLK clone, 16.87kN thrust).

The export version is generally better equipped with western components such as Martin Baker MK10L ejection seat and Collins EFIS and is able to carry PL-7 AAMs and a 23mm gun pod for air defence role.

Besides Pakistan, Myanmar purcharsed 12, and Sri Lanka purchased 6. Seveal African countries also have bought K-8s, including Zambia, Zimbabwe and Namibia. The real breakthrough came when Eygpt signed a $345m deal to locally produce 80 K-8Es to replace her L-29 intermediate trainer. This has become a big boost to Hongdu's export effort in the competitive international market. The first two Egyptian K-8Es rolled out of the assembly line in late June 2001, carrying a 23mm gunpod under the fuselage and powered by an Allied Signal engine. The assembly of all 80 K-8Es was accomplished by the end of 2005. A total of 250 K-8s were exported by 2008. Meanwhile 400 JL-8s were ordered by PLAAF and PLAN.

List of K-8 Overseas Customers Country Number Comments

Pakistan 39 - 27 K-8Ps with glass cockpit ordered in June 2005, 16 delivered by January 2009

Myanmar 12

Sri Lanka 6 - 3 lost in 2002 during guerrilla attack, 3 delivered in July 2005

Zambia 8

Namibia 4

Egypt 120 locally assembled K-8Es, 40 were ordered in mid-2005

Zimbabwe 12 - 1 crashed in September 2008

Ghana 4 - 2 K-8Ps delivered in March 2007, 2 more in March 2008

Sudan 12 - 6 delivered in 2007

Venezuela 18 ordered in 2008


- Last Updated 4/5/09

Chinese Military Aviation

 

[TOPGUN]

Guys one of my friends mentioned to me yesterday about k-8 we were talking in general talk about the aircraft etc! other then it being a jet traning aircraft why don't we also have a few sqd's it as a light attack aircraft change its color schme and do a few changes wat do you guys think ?

 

[Imran Khan]

already discussed sir and sir murad posted info and images we can change within minuets k-8 as light fighter.

 

[TOPGUN]

already discussed sir and sir murad posted info and images we can change within minuets k-8 as light fighter.

Yes already discussed! but iam talking about acutal sqd's not changing them around in war time etc!!

 

[Imran Khan]

sir see posts 10 to 20 please.

 

[TOPGUN]

sir see posts 10 to 20 please.

? show me Imran

 

[IceCold]

Guys one of my friends mentioned to me yesterday about k-8 we were talking in general talk about the aircraft etc! other then it being a jet traning aircraft why don't we also have a few sqd's it as a light attack aircraft change its color schme and do a few changes wat do you guys think ?

It all comes down to need. Do we have one, i certainly don't think so we have suffient aircrafts to perform air to ground roles and COIN missions, there is hardly any need for maintaining light attack squardon of K-8. Hope this answers your question.