What's new

JY-27A radar spotted in Pakistan

Reiteration means diddley sh-it---. In the last 17 + years---their military has been responcible of killing over 6 milion muslims in AFG/Iraq/Syria/Libya---decimated those nations---destroyed the infra structure of the nation---destroyed cities---made 70-100 million homeless.

None of them have modern Armed forces, AD systems , AF , and Abilities to coordinate a counter attack on America, and fighting a civil war or Terrorists Organization on their door steps . US is technological superior to any nation including Chinese which they themselves accept, but pitch Americans against well equipped modern Army like China and Russia , and we will get the idea which system in invincible and which is not .

Reason America turned into a Giant Super Power that American mainland is protect by huge sea and major world conflicts happen in Foreign Land, where US army was used as either Invaders , Mercenaries or allied/Coalitions forces . The world will know the real might of US, China and Russia when any two of them will fight against each other with their full potential ( OF COURSE NO NUKES ) .

Your green card is in the post.

Dost Pehle bataana tha na ese Green Card asaani se milta hai , Mai tu pata nai kyun IR-1/CR-1 family Visa ke chakker mai par gaya ..:(
 
.
Just superb and it goes to show how serious the PAF is in building a potent, integrated air defence system, which will work in tandem with the fantastic PAF.
I hope to see evaluations of long range SAM's next, which is big chink in the armour.
 
Last edited:
. .
Reason America turned into a Giant Super Power that american mainland is protect by huge sea and major world conflicts happen in Foreign Land, where US army was used as either Invaders , Mercenaries or allied/Coalitions forces . The world will know the real might of US, China and Russia when any two of them will fight against each other with their full potential ( OF COURSE NO NUKES ) .

Dost Pehle bataana tha na ese Green Card asaani se milta hai , Mai tu pata nai kyun IR-1/CR-1 family Visa ke chakker mai par gaya ..:(

Hi,

That is what the US wants---a war with the chinese or the russians with no nucs---just a conventional war.

Hi,

The americans may just be checking the readiness of the pakistanis---what assets they have and to get the electronic signature of the machine---and what new equipment the paks are using.

It would have been better if an air to air intercept was made---.
 
.
Developing Pakistan
A US-based defense weekly, Jane’s 360 has revealed that Pakistan now possesses a state-of-the-art radar system.

The defense analysts have identified a JY-27A counter-very-low-observable (CVLO) radar at #Mianwali Air Base of Pakistan Air Force. In imagery from 29th August this year, it has been revealed that the #China Electronics Technology Group Corporation (CETC) manufactured radar.

The jamming-resistant and highly mobile VHF radar uses an active phased array antenna capable of detecting stealth aircraft like F-22 from a distance of 500 km.

According to the details, the 3-D long-range air surveillance and guidance radar was not fully operational as of 2nd September, however, it had arrived only between 5th June and 29th August.

It is worth mentioning that the news of the JY-27A’s acquisition hasn’t been made public, however, there have been reports about Pakistan’s desire to import advanced Chinese surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems.

The Pakistan Air Force has been actively working on increasing its arsenal especially after the staged Pulwama incident which led to an aerial faceoff between Pakistan and India.


75557453_2354960967964921_2212455340568477696_o.jpg






75557453_2354960967964921_2212455340568477696_o.jpg
This is one mother phased array!. Beauty.
 
.
Hi,

That is what the US wants---a war with the chinese or the russians with no nucs---just a conventional war.

Hi,

The americans may just be checking the readiness of the pakistanis---what assets they have and to get the electronic signature of the machine---and what new equipment the paks are using.

It would have been better if an air to air intercept was made---.

US despite having the world strongest armies has adopted a new form of warfare , before they know we have to send in American Troops to fight and die in Foreign lands which bring a lot of heat from home , protest and negative publicity ( of course it never stop them ) but it does put pressure on Govt, and Soldiers lose morale .

Not a big fan of Wars in General other than Video Games, but as some members were arguing over US been invincible , I beg to differ .. Unless we see US pitched its most Modern tech Against the Modern armies like China or Russia we will never know how good they are .Some times smaller and weaker countries can surprise you .

If you are pointing towards the recent incursion of American plane, than my response was and will be same if US wanted to Spy on us, they can do it easily ( assuming they are not doing it already ) . They have more than enough assets and technological superiority over Pakistan to do so .

As for the F-22 Raptor , F-35 both are some of my Favorite Planes and indeed very capable, but I would consider them invincible or invisible to Radars when they Fly over Moscow or Beijing without been detected .
 
. . . .
The RCS figures being used to plot the curves in the above graph are based on what?
Obviously based on X band emissions.
That's how the stated RCS of an aircraft is ascertained by comparing against the distance required to detect it and the standard detection distance for 5m^2 or 3m^2 or even 1m^2 target for that family of radars.
These standard figures will definitely change for VHF band emissions.
The difference b/w LO and non-LO will get changed, into what I can't say and don't know enough.
But that is why VHF radars detect LO aircraft earlier than X band, because the RCS of the LO on the X band is no longer the same on the VHF band.
Due to different reflective characteristics of the longer wavelength involved.
That is why the figures presented above, IMHO is very suspect and subjective and need to be viewed with suspicion and a pinch of salt.

But that is just my humble opinion and I could be wrong.
Take a look at following chart.

c3_electromagnetic_2_full.jpg


Notice the frequency and size of wavelengths at L-band and above? (Poor accuracy and imaging)

Now take a look at this: https://www.aewa.org/Library/rf_bands.html

Applications:-

UHF-band (300-1,000 MHz) - Very long-range surveillance
VHF-band (50-330 MHz) - Very long-range surveillance
L-band (1-2 GHz) - Long-range surveillance, enroute traffic control
S-band (2-4 GHz) - Moderate-range surveillance, terminal traffic control, long-range weather
C-band (4-8 GHz) - Long-range tracking, airborne weather
X-band (8-12 GHz) - Short-range tracking, missile guidance, mapping, marine radar, airborne intercept
Ku-band (12-18 GHz) - High resolution mapping, satellite altimetry
K-band (18-27 GHz) - Little used (H 20 absorption)
Ka-band (27-40 GHz) - Very high resolution mapping, airport surveillance
mm-band (40-100+ GHz) - Experimental

Why do you think that fighter jets are equipped with radar systems operating in the X-band?

And finally:-

SOS4-table.jpg


Now the problem with those detection ranges is that whether the target is cooperative or not.

F-22A Raptor with 'radar-reflectors' = cooperative target
F-22A Raptor without 'radar-reflectors' = non-cooperative target (deflecting and/or absorbing radar emissions)

US make sure that all of its VLO aircraft operate with 'radar-reflectors' while operating near countries deemed as hostile including Russia and China. Therefore, reported detection ranges are MISLEADING and not true reflections of the same in wartime conditions.

VLO = Very Low Observable

Here is a straightforward response: https://www.businessinsider.de/f-35-russia-china-radar-counter-stealth-2017-5?r=US&IR=T

Today, Russia and China have built impressive arrays of very high frequency, or VHF, and other integrated radars that can spot even the US's most advanced and stealthy jets like the F-22 and the F-35 under the right circumstances.

While many have rushed to declare stealth a fruitless and expensive path for the US Air Force to walk, retired Marine Maj. Dan Flatley told Business Insider why pilots of America's most expensive weapons system weren't afraid of Russian or Chinese counterstealth.

"Adversaries have to build a kill chain," said Flatley, a former F-35 pilot. Just because a radar can find an object — and Russian VHF radars can spot F-35s — doesn't mean it can fix, track, target, and consummate that kill chain with a missile hit, he said.

"We're not trying to prevent every aspect of that chain, just snap one of those links," Flatley said.

So while an infrared search and tracking system could spot an F-35 and give enemy pilots an idea of where it is, it couldn't track it or target it with a missile. This means that the systems Russia and China have spent millions developing provide only a tiny glimpse of the F-35 — systems that may be sunk costs in the grand scheme of things.

"I don't need to stop everything all the time," Flatley said of the kill chain. "I just need to make you unable to finish what you've already invested tons of time and money and effort in trying to shoot me down."


None of them have modern Armed forces, AD systems , AF , and Abilities to coordinate a counter attack on America, and fighting a civil war or Terrorists Organization on their door steps . US is technological superior to any nation including Chinese which they themselves accept, but pitch Americans against well equipped modern Army like China and Russia , and we will get the idea which system in invincible and which is not .

Reason America turned into a Giant Super Power that American mainland is protect by huge sea and major world conflicts happen in Foreign Land, where US army was used as either Invaders , Mercenaries or allied/Coalitions forces . The world will know the real might of US, China and Russia when any two of them will fight against each other with their full potential ( OF COURSE NO NUKES ) .



Dost Pehle bataana tha na ese Green Card asaani se milta hai , Mai tu pata nai kyun IR-1/CR-1 family Visa ke chakker mai par gaya ..:(
Define "modern."

F-22A is 1990s era design.

B-2 Spirit which put other VLO platforms to shame even at present, is 1980s era design.

Syria is also importing modern stuff from Russia and China to enhance its defensive arrangements. The fact that even high-tech Chinese and Russian assets including YJ-27 class radar systems, Pantsir class, S-300 class and even S-400 class defenses have completely failed to live up to there hype in Syrian theater speak volumes. Do keep in mind that Russia provide its electronic warfare cover to Syrian regime to dissuade Israeli and/or American attacks on its assets but this measure is not making much difference either.

FYI: https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...ms-flying-into-the-ground-during-israeli-raid

The only Russian success story in terms of technology in Syrian theater is the T-90 MBT on the ground - credit where due.

US spend far more on its defenses than any country, therefore, disparity will be obvious in conventional clashes. US is now building defenses against ballistic missiles and hypersonics, and both Russia and China are understandably spooked. US have a massive military industrial complex in place since the 1950s to push boundaries in military as well as in consumer goods. Much of the technological advances in our hands today (networking gear; World Wide Web; Smartphones; computers; satellite navigation - are all byproducts of American advances in military-purpose technologies which eventually spilled over into consumer markets).

Both Russia and China keep US at bay with their arsenal of long-range strike platforms; both can directly threaten and subject American cities to strikes if the need arise. There is no form of parity otherwise.
 
Last edited:
.
Notice the frequency and size of wavelengths at L-band and above? (Poor accuracy and imaging)
This was not contested by me. Accuracy was not the contention of my post.
Targeting was not the point I contested.

Why do you think that fighter jets are equipped with radar systems operating in the X-band?
Again, this was not the topic what I contested.

I contested your graph figures based on X-band RCS giving VHF-band ranges. Which don't correlate.
Similarly the table in your post above is also stating X-band RCS.

VHF radars are much better at detecting LO or VLO aircrafts than X-Band. It at least gives a proper warning that a stealth fighter is approaching, much better than an X-Band. Ever hear the term that "Forewarned is Forearmed"?
 
.
This was not contested by me. Accuracy was not the contention of my post.
Targeting was not the point I contested.


Again, this was not the topic what I contested.

I contested your graph figures based on X-band RCS giving VHF-band ranges. Which don't correlate.
Similarly the table in your post above is also stating X-band RCS.

VHF radars are much better at detecting LO or VLO aircrafts than X-Band. It at least gives a proper warning that a stealth fighter is approaching, much better than an X-Band. Ever hear the term that "Forewarned is Forearmed"?
I think you are misreading these graphs.

They simply show at what distance a target of certain rcs will be visible to a particular radar system operating at a given band.

Rus-VHF-band-Radar-Params-2008.png

Rus-VHF-band-Radar-Params-2008.png


These graphs do not tell what would be the rcs of F-22A Raptor at these bands for specified radar systems. Still there is lot of atmospheric noise and variables to consider.

Serbians had extensively invested in radar systems to detect LO airborne threats but managed to defeat just a single F-117A aircraft out of 13 in total, logging over 850 sorties over Serbia in combination throughout the war. This too because F-117A were flying over predictable trajectories and Serbians had good information at hand from intercepts of NATO communications.

However, Serbians stood no chance against much stealthier B-2 Spirit which logged 50 sorties in total but inflicted incredible amount of damage - traces of which are visible even today.

So? How hard it is for USA to introduce a wide range of sophisticated decoys in the mix and more? When sheer complexity, resourcefulness and technological prowess of USAF on the whole come into play, this debate become largely pointless.
 
Last edited:
.
This was not contested by me. Accuracy was not the contention of my post.
Targeting was not the point I contested.


Again, this was not the topic what I contested.

I contested your graph figures based on X-band RCS giving VHF-band ranges. Which don't correlate.
Similarly the table in your post above is also stating X-band RCS.

VHF radars are much better at detecting LO or VLO aircrafts than X-Band. It at least gives a proper warning that a stealth fighter is approaching, much better than an X-Band. Ever hear the term that "Forewarned is Forearmed"?
I think people here are trying to ram their points of view down others. Irrespective, we have to agree that the figures noted remain untested and are conjecture at best. There has been no encounter between a 5th gen plane and a stealth detecting radar. Comparing Syrian figures and taking them as baseline is a bit precarious to say the least due to various factors.
So we really do not know whether the radar will effectively observe a 5th gen plane and at what distance. The Chinese figures therefore remain a claim as do the lo observability of 5th gen planes.
So if the truth lies some where in between we will have to wait and find out.
A
 
.
Define "modern."

China and Russia , they have modern Armies and equipment, but i wont consider their downgraded versions of assets which they give to war torn countries like Syria .. Attack main Land Russia or China and we will see how invincible F-22 or B-2 bomber is .
On paper everything looks good and advance but real scenarios changes a lot .

US spend far more on its defenses than any country, therefore, disparity will be obvious in conventional clashes.

irrelevant , As i said let them pitch their military against a formidable foe than we will talk .. Iraq ,Syria , ISIS , Somalia , Yemen , Sudan , Afghanistan none of these countries have modern standard armies or equipment . Even a little modern army like Iran Shot American modern drone with their SAM, I would love to see how S-300/400/500 and Chinese AD systems will work, and results might surprise you ..

Both Russia and China keep US at bay with their arsenal of long-range strike platforms; both can directly threaten and subject American cities to strikes if the need arise. There is no form of parity otherwise.

That is very Biased opinion , which is why people don't take you seriously .. US despite all its military might is prone to failures , and there are numerous accidents in US military history , you forget how many Nukes US lost in accidents ? You really believe made in China means its crap or outdated ? don't act like uneducated Dumb Indian, Chinese Advancements are very rapid, and they are in Americans own words are catching up to them, Oh and not to forget what happened to KSA, Iranian drones make havoc despite these sites were protected by PAC , Top notch American AD system .
 
.
Dost Pehle bataana tha na ese Green Card asaani se milta hai , Mai tu pata nai kyun IR-1/CR-1 family Visa ke chakker mai par gaya ..
Not K1?

China and Russia , they have modern Armies and equipment, but i wont consider their downgraded versions of assets which they give to war torn countries like Syria .. Attack main Land Russia or China and we will see how invincible F-22 or B-2 bomber is .
On paper everything looks good and advance but real scenarios changes a lot .
US has best jets handsdown
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom