John Kerry calls Shivshankar Menon to express regret about Devyani's treatment; defends US laws

[Bang Galore]

Indian legal system is irrelevant on US soil.

Let me give you an (admittedly extreme) example.

-- Let's say you and I come from a country where slavery is legal.
-- We sign a contract saying I will be your slave and we go to America.
-- Once on US soil, I run away.
-- You harass my family in the old country to force me to return and "honor" my contract.
-- You ask the US authorities to arrest me and deport me to the old country.
-- The US will not do that and may even help my family escape being held hostage.

I'm not interested in what is relevant on U.S. soil, the point remains that the U.S. helped spirit away an Indian resident in India on whom summons were issued by an Indian court. It is not relevant whether or not some U.S. authority saw the summons as an attempt to pressure, it still remains a valid summons and they are guilty of attempting to subvert the Indian judicial system.

As for your analogy, that is for the U.S. to decide. The consequences for such actions will reside elsewhere. Not only did this case involve representatives of a foreign government, it also involved the judiciary of that country. No one in India will agree to give up judicial oversight of its citizens in India simply because the U.S. deems fit to make a case. Whether or not pressure was applied legally is moot, what is the argument that such pressure cannot be applied? It is done everywhere, including the U.S., the call is for the courts in question to decide whether there is any merit in the case brought before it. If you subvert Indian judicial process yet expect that yours should be completely respected, I'm afraid things don't work that way. There are and probably will be consequences.

 

[Developereo]

thing is..she did not lie in the application ..... she was arrested on false charges ...

There are three versions of the compensation package (benefits plus money):
A- on the contract
B- on the visa application
C- actual

The US authorities have determined that (C) does not comply with US laws or (B), hence the arrest.

Indian authorities can argue that that is not the case, but it will happen in court (if at all).

 

[Developereo]

I'm not interested in what is relevant on U.S. soil, the point remains that the U.S. helped spirit away an Indian resident in India on whom summons were issued by an Indian court. It is not relevant whether or not some U.S. authority saw the summons as an attempt to pressure, it still remains a valid summons and they are guilty of attempting to subvert the Indian judicial system.

As for your analogy, that is for the U.S. to decide. The consequences for such actions will reside elsewhere. Not only did this case involve representatives of a foreign government, it also involved the judiciary of that country. No one in India will agree to give up judicial oversight of its citizens in India simply because the U.S. deems fit to make a case. Whether or not pressure was applied legally is moot, what is the argument that such pressure cannot be applied? It is done everywhere, including the U.S., the call is for the courts in question to decide whether there is any merit in the case brought before it. If you subvert Indian judicial process yet expect that yours should be completely respected, I'm afraid things don't work that way. There are and probably will be consequences.

The US is under no obligation to honor the Indian judicial process, if it feels that doing so would jeopardize a person's safety. The maid is a material witness in a case involving violation of US laws.

To get back to my analogy, it would be like sending an escaped slave back to his owner, just because the home country so demanded.

 

[Bang Galore]

The US is under no obligation to honor the Indian judicial process, if it feels that doing so would jeopardize a person's safety. The maid is a material witness in a case involving violation of US laws.

To get back to my analogy, it would be like sending an escaped slave back to his owner, just because the home country so demanded.

The problem with such an attitude is that it works only if you never ever need the country so slighted, for any matter. Not all countries swallow insults readily as the americans are finding out anyways. They have just opened up another issue.

I didn't even speak of the maid, I spoke about her husband who was resident in India when a judicial process was initiated here. To subvert it deliberately is not as simple a matter nor will it be seen as such by the courts here.

 

[Developereo]

The problem with such an attitude is that it works only if you never ever need the country so slighted, for any matter. Not all countries swallow insults readily as the americans are finding out anyways. They have just opened up another issue.

You guys talk of setting precedents with this arrest.

What kind of precedent would it set if the people (perpetrator or victim) involved in a crime on US soil could be whisked off to their home country, never to be seen again?

It is the Indians who are being unreasonable here (about the maid, not the arrest details).

I didn't even speak of the maid, I spoke about her husband who was resident in India when a judicial process was initiated here. To subvert it deliberately is not as simple a matter nor will it be seen as such by the courts here.

If the maid's husband was required to stay in India, then GoI should have confiscated/denied his passport. Everything he, and the US, did complied with Indian processes.

The important thing here is that, when warned by the US authorities about violation of US labor laws, the Indian response (especially the consul and her husband) was to harass the maid and her family, rather than address the specific concerns raised by the Americans.

And this is apparently the third such case in three years, just at the Indian mission in New York.

 

[SrNair]

Why do you want to know who am I? I'm here in the PDF because I can and it open to the public, Indian like yourself more likely to embarrass by your action no need me to troll you to point out the obvious.

Who want to know who are you? I want to know where is trolling.Did your trollbank bankrupted?

 

[he-man]

he is free to express regret when he is cavity searched and put in tihar,lol

 

[deckingraj]

There are three versions of the compensation package (benefits plus money):
A- on the contract
B- on the visa application
C- actual
The US authorities have determined that (C) does not comply with US laws or (B), hence the arrest.
Indian authorities can argue that that is not the case, but it will happen in court (if at all).

What are we discussing here....weather there was a fraud or not, or the treatment given to her was appropriate or not??

 

[he-man]

What are we discussing here....weather there was a fraud or not, or the treatment given to her was appropriate or not??

technically speaking, both

 

[Developereo]

What are we discussing here....weather there was a fraud or not, or the treatment given to her was appropriate or not??

The US authorities believe there was visa fraud and employment exploitation.

The manner of the arrest is a separate issue and, regardless of "normal procedures", I agree with the Indian concerns.

 

[adwityagrata]

Unless you lied on the visa application about the slave status.

Bingo!
Now the analogy gets even closer to this case.

LOL. Are you retarded ?

The visa was for a maid/nanny. The US govt. new they were issuing visa for a domestic help. So where is the lie ?

 

[mano99]

The winner for this entire episode is the maid. she played her role beautifully and fooled the usa Govt. she succeeded in getting citizenship for her whole family and maybe a govt job too. kudos for her emigration lawyer.

 

[Bang Galore]

You guys talk of setting precedents with this arrest.

What kind of precedent would it set if the people (perpetrator or victim) involved in a crime on US soil could be whisked off to their home country, never to be seen again?


....The important thing here is that, when warned by the US authorities about violation of US labor laws, the Indian response (especially the consul and her husband) was to harass the maid and her family, rather than address the specific concerns raised by the Americans.

Nothing has been proven. They remain allegations. I'm not questioning the U.S. authorities right to consider the "well being" of anyone on their soil, Indian or otherwise but no international law would allow you to stretch it to others in a foreign country.

The Indian government, contrary to what you seem to think, made the first move, including asking the diplomat to file a report with the NYPD when the maid went missing. Subsequently when the maid supposedly made contact, it was the advice of lawyers for the diplomat to file a case in India, not to harass but to safeguard herself from harassment.

It is the Indians who are being unreasonable here (about the maid, not the arrest details).

I don't think the Indian government has been unreasonable about the maid. They have made the point about the maid having her passport recalled but they have not made that alone into an issue. Which is why nothing much was said about it prior to the incident in question(the arrest)

If the maid's husband was required to stay in India, then GoI should have confiscated/denied his passport. Everything he, and the US, did complied with Indian processes.

Passports are not confiscated as a matter of routine. A summons was issued & the U.S. embassy was warned of a possible attempt of the husband to attempt to leave the country. The very fact that he managed to go to the airport and catch a flight shows up the canard that he was being hounded by the system. My point remains to Mr.Bharara's admission that the "evacuation" took place to escape from a legal process, as damning an admission as any. It would not be for the U.S. to judge whether or not an Indian citizen, not on their soil, would get justice or not & especially not for them to pre-judge both the case & the entire judicial & police system and certainly not to attempt to subvert the legal process. You can be sure the courts will take a very dim view of that.

The government has reacted just now to Mr.Bharara's statement & they don't seem too happy about it(to put it mildly).

The Ministry of External Affairs, in a statement, today said that there was only one victim in the diplomat case and that was Devyani Khobragade - a serving Indian diplomat on mission in the United States.

In a strongly-worded statement, the MEA said there were "no courtesies" in the treatment that was meted out to the diplomat, under the normal definition of that word in the English language.

The ministry further said in response to US Attorney Preet Bharara, "It needs to be asked what right a foreign government has to 'evacuate' Indian citizens from India while cases are pending against them in Indian legal system."

 

[adwityagrata]

The winner for this entire episode is the maid. she played her role beautifully and fooled the usa Govt. she succeeded in getting citizenship for her whole family and maybe a govt job too. kudos for her emigration lawyer.

Not really. Just consider the Facts.

The maid's name was Sangeeta Richards’s and her father is an employee of the US embassy in New Delhi.

Her mother used to be the housekeeper of a former top US diplomat in New Delhi.

Sangeeta Richards’s husband Philip used to be a driver in Delhi’s Mozambique embassy, suddenly got the job as a driver in the US embassy in Delhi.

The Maid was given a visa even though her employer had a salary of 4,000$ per month.

Once in the US, the maid suddenly asked the Indian consul to raise her salary to 4,500 $. She was refused and was asked to return back to India to her husband and child. She refused. Instead the maid absconds from the consulate and file charges against the Dy. Consul General. Then her entire family is given a special T-visa, which is only issued for family to work and stay in the US on the condition they help US enforcement authorities.


The whole things STINKS of Conspiracy.

 

[Tshering22]

Long time no see, are you back after a ban ?

Was I banned? Didn't know. Well I got a job to attend to as well you see, so was out exploring west Asia.

Why the hell was she promised a wage much higher than what Devyani intended to pay? Was that not wrong on this lady's part?

The maid was being underpaid as per US laws. Agreed. But Devyani paid the maid even lesser than what was on the paper and ill-treated her as per some news links. What about that?

The maid may not have known this, but the employer did, which in this case is this consular officer. Why promise something and give something else?

HOWEVER, If you feel compelled to believe in a more 1970's Hindi movie kind of situation of 'Maalkin' and 'Naukar', even then the right procedure would be to deport the official back to India for action. Legal or Administrative.

I did not say that she deserved to be thrown in with drug addicts and mafia goons and cavity searched. I just said that what she did was wrong and there should be legal action against her. She cheated someone lower than her in status and what if she is getting cheated now.

Sitting in US, you cannot function like Indian babu. From what I have read, the employer had promised something else and gave the lady much, much lower and this was outside the official contract.

Unless of course you want to US to peep into your own house and preach to you about 'morality' and tell you how to live your lives as per US customs without ANY of the BENEFITS of being a US citizen.

The instance took place in US territory. That is their country and their laws are not like our country's where everyone takes them for a ride and tosses them into the garbage bin (what bin? straight on the road.. ).

US was peeping into her house which is in their country, governed by certain labor, civil and other laws which they intend to follow unlike we Indians who think the world is ours and we can do whatever we like wherever we like.

Sorry to break your emotional bubble but the world doesn't function like that.

Pick a side real quick.

Always clear. She needs to be tried but as per the protocol of a consular officer's rights and procedures.

You need to come out of the media-frenzied emotional distraction that is being done in the name of national jingoism going on.

The government of this country shits in its pants when our soldiers get beheaded in our territory or an aggressive bully enters into our borders.... aur yahaan protocol ki baat kar rahe hain...

We Indians need to get our priorities right:

Agar itna gussa upar likhe do hadson par dikhaya hota to kam se kam duniya mein hamari izzat bachi rehti....