Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

[lem34]

we do not discriminate on people on the basis of Class, creed, religion, sex etc...India is the second fastest economy in the world. The days of disappointment has been over for us.

Congrats....

 

[somebozo]

Now what we can say----

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship

NEW DELHI: More than 700 Pakistanis have acquired Indian citizenship in the last three years, the Lok Sabha was informed Tuesday.

In a written answer, Minister of State for Home Mullappally Ramachandran said while 321 Pakistanis got the citizenship in 2009, the figure dropped to 150 in 2010 but rose to 300 in 2011.

The government rejected 31 applications in 2009, 54 in 2010 and 14 in 2011.

Among Afghans, 284 became Indian citizens in 2009. The figure dropped to nine in 2010 and rose to 14 in 2011.

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship - Times Of India

700 is nothing consider that after Parition until now thousands of Indian citizens have take Pakistani citizenship..Just in my social circle I can count three indians who became Pakistani during the year of 2011 either by marriage or application. One of them being a special case of citizenship being awarded by the decree of president Zardari..

 

[sachin@india]

Congrats....

thanks..well we are enjoying anyways..just had a wonderful IPL match.

 

[notsuperstitious]

He spent a total of 11 years in jail means almost one six part of his whole life for the cause of India.

• Youngest and Longest serving Congress President in 1923 and form 1940-1946, 07 terms.

• Independent India’s First Education Minister and held the post until his death in 1958, for almost 11 years.

• From 1952 he also assumed charge of the Ministry of National Resources and Scientific Research.

• He appointed and established University Grant Commission (UGC) in 1953, Established Sahitya Academy in 1954, Established Indian Institute of Technology (IIT), Kharagpur in 1951, Established Indian Institute of Science (IISc), Banglore. Established CSIR for scientific works, Made Visva Bharati Santiniketan as a Central University in 1952, Established Central Institute of Education in 1947, Established Indian Academy of Dance, Drama and Music in 1953, Established Lalit Kala Academy in 1954, Established National Museum in 1947, Established All India Council for Teaching, Established Sangeet Natak Academy.

Azad's achievements (Thanks Bangalore). A great scholar, a great intellectual, a great administrator, a great visionary, a great human - a true humane muslim even non muslims could look upto at the most challenging times in communally charged environment.

And he's being subjected to abuse only because he refused to pamper your ego? I did not want to enter this thread, I only posted y'day that pls don't abuse Indian leaders, yet all we have here is angry abuses of hurt egos. And to think this thread was started by a pakistani who called Azad perverted slave. Let neutral observers decide who is insecure about their identity.

 

[sachin@india]

700 is nothing consider that after Parition until now thousands of Indian citizens have take Pakistani citizenship..Just in my social circle I can count three indians who became Pakistani during the year of 2011 either by marriage or application. One of them being a special case of citizenship being awarded by the decree of president Zardari..

please show the proof or come out of "I know everything" syndrome. Thanks.

 

[lem34]

Azad's achievements. A great scholar, a great intellectual, a great administrator, a great visionary, a great human - a true muslims even non muslims could look upto at the most challenging times in communally charged environment.

And he's being subjected to abuse only because he refused to pamper your ego? I did not want to enter this thread, I only posted y'day that pls don't abuse Indian leaders, yet all we have here is angry abuses of hurt egos. And to think this thread was started by a pakistani who called Azad perverted slave. Let neutral observers decide who is insecure about their identity.

no offence mate but if you want to look at provocation I suggest you carefully read all the posts on this thread the first 12 pages on this thread and you will see that I made 3 or 4 posts which cannot possibly be taken as insulting to anyone in fact they were rather meek. Then last night one of your countrymen came and was derogatory about Oscar, Bilal SK who were all matter of fact and nothing heated and actually for no reason swore at me. which I think was deleted by Antibody.

 

[somebozo]

Azad's achievements (Thanks Bangalore). A great scholar, a great intellectual, a great administrator, a great visionary, a great human - a true humane muslim even non muslims could look upto at the most challenging times in communally charged environment.

And he's being subjected to abuse only because he refused to pamper your ego? I did not want to enter this thread, I only posted y'day that pls don't abuse Indian leaders, yet all we have here is angry abuses of hurt egos. And to think this thread was started by a pakistani who called Azad perverted slave. Let neutral observers decide who is insecure about their identity.

A young man, Azad was also exposed to the modern intellectual life of Kolkata, the then capital of British-ruled India and the centre of cultural and political life. He began to doubt the traditional ways of his father and secretly diversified his studies. Azad learned English through intensive personal study and began learning Western philosophy, history and contemporary politics by reading advanced books and modern periodicals. Azad grew disillusioned with Islamic teachings and was inspired by the modern views of Muslim educationalist Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, who had promoted rationalism. Increasingly doubtful of religious dogma, Azad entered a period of self-described "atheism" and "sinfulness" that lasted for almost a decade.[6][11]

I think the "Azad" in his name demonstrated "extra" liberal without bounds.

 

[sachin@india]

Azad's achievements (Thanks Bangalore). A great scholar, a great intellectual, a great administrator, a great visionary, a great human - a true humane muslim even non muslims could look upto at the most challenging times in communally charged environment.

And he's being subjected to abuse only because he refused to pamper your ego? I did not want to enter this thread, I only posted y'day that pls don't abuse Indian leaders, yet all we have here is angry abuses of hurt egos. And to think this thread was started by a pakistani who called Azad perverted slave. Let neutral observers decide who is insecure about their identity.

amazing achievement under his belts...he was a mastermind behind india's education system.

A young man, Azad was also exposed to the modern intellectual life of Kolkata, the then capital of British-ruled India and the centre of cultural and political life. He began to doubt the traditional ways of his father and secretly diversified his studies. Azad learned English through intensive personal study and began learning Western philosophy, history and contemporary politics by reading advanced books and modern periodicals. Azad grew disillusioned with Islamic teachings and was inspired by the modern views of Muslim educationalist Sir Syed Ahmed Khan, who had promoted rationalism. Increasingly doubtful of religious dogma, Azad entered a period of self-described "atheism" and "sinfulness" that lasted for almost a decade.[6][11]

form where did you get this ? please post the source...it would be interesting.

 

[notsuperstitious]

amazing achievement under his belts...he was a mastermind behind india's education system.




form where did you get this ? please post the source...it would be interesting.

Even if true shows he became a great Islamic scholar through self discovery. Apparently a path followed by many great men. I highly recomment that to the indoctrinated since age two intellectual zombies here.

 

[Ignited Mind]

Even if true shows he became a great Islamic scholar through self discovery. Apparently a path followed by many great men. I highly recomment that to the indoctrinated since age two intellectual zombies here.

Many men, especially in those times under went major transformations in terms of their views.

Iqbal.

Jinnah.

Maulana Azad.

Even Gandhi went many transformations in terms of his views.

In fact, introspection is a hallmark of all men who have achieved something in the world.

 

[fd24]

Azad's achievements (Thanks Bangalore). A great scholar, a great intellectual, a great administrator, a great visionary, a great human - a true humane muslim even non muslims could look upto at the most challenging times in communally charged environment.

And he's being subjected to abuse only because he refused to pamper your ego? I did not want to enter this thread, I only posted y'day that pls don't abuse Indian leaders, yet all we have here is angry abuses of hurt egos. And to think this thread was started by a pakistani who called Azad perverted slave. Let neutral observers decide who is insecure about their identity.

fateh71 - you are being selective again. I along with Oscar were sworn at yesterday yet either you didnt see it or want to be just pointing faults of the "other side". It started with a moron swearing and became quite abusive - in fact a few pages i even managed to offend Indians by spelling Gandhi Ji wrong. If anyone took the time to go back last week when someone was putting disgusting abuse on here about Gandhi - they would know my feeling about the guy. - Just shows how a simple thread can stir so much emotions.
There are insecurities on both sides - denying this is pathetic. How much insecurity depends on which side you are sitting on!
Lets agree to differ and the rest of you guys - chill out!

 

[NALANDA]

Som Anand provides some clues in this regard.
He remarks that the Hindu and Muslim communities, ‘lived like two streams, flowing side by
side but never meeting at any point’.69 He dilates further:

To keep themselves away from the Muslims’ “polluting touch”, the Hindus had set-up
many barriers in their daily life. My mother, for example, would never allow any Muslim to
enter her kitchen. No cooked food was accepted from them. I remember how, if any of our
Muslim neighbours even sent any special dish for my father, it never went beyond the dining
table, a place where she did not take her own food. While eating she would never allow any of
her Muslim friends or neighbours to touch her. During my childhood such inhibitions were
generally not observed by male members of educated Hindu families. (Women have always
been more conservative in these matters.) Some decades earlier these rules formed a strict
code of conduct for all, no matter how educated or enlightened a person might be….

The absurdities of such Hindu restrictions notwithstanding, the Muslims had come to
accept them as a law of nature. Their older generation knew the limits of a relationship with
the Hindus and considered it improper even to offer them drinking water from their
utensils…. The Hindus have always complained of Muslim fanaticism but they have never
understood that the walls they raised around themselves could have not resulted in any other
attitude….
It took many centuries for the Hindus of Punjab to realise how absurd and harmful
their anti-Muslim prejudices were. In this respect the first current of change was felt during
the Khilafat movement in the early twenties. Though the spirit of Hindu-Muslim amity
received many reverses in later years, at the social level the urban elite had changed its code
of conduct for the better. This was due, in part, [to] Western education. What this change
meant was evident in my father’s attitude. When he was young, my mother used to recall, he
would come back to change his clothes if a Muslim had touched him while walking in the
bazaar; but during my childhood in Model Town, father had several Muslim friends and he
considered my mother’s inhibitions a sign of backwardness

The economic basis of communal violence

The economic structure in Lahore surely compounded the social cleavages. Yunas Adeeb
writes, ‘ The Hindus dominated money lending, import and export of cloth, the business in
gold and silver and in food-grain…. The Muslims worked outside Lahore city in the fields.
They cultivated vegetables and wheat, and most were craftsmen and artisans’.71


http://www.sacw.net/partition/june2004IshtiaqAhmed.pdf
____________________________________________________________________________

The socio economic structure of the British India was such that even in majority muslim areas, the Muslims were the labourers, peasents and the Hindus were the well off businessmen. The only rich Muslim community was the landed aristocracy who made just a fraction of the total Muslim populace. This in itself should help Pakistanis realize what freedom they live in now. Yes the country is one unorganized mess but at least we know that we wont be stopped from climbing up the social ladder on the basis of our religion.

We, both Muslims and Hindus were not the perfect people during Independence and before (lack of education / mass media) and while we are not perfect today, we are much better.

Above example is correct but the context is not correctly explained. It is an example of Pure Vegetarion family trying to protect being a vegetarian / puritan self. Its like Muslims not allowing other religion near their Masjid, holy books etc as they fear of them being polluted by Kaafirs.... Period. I witnessed it in the thought process of my mother (pure vegetariona, not well educated and conditioned) when I was very young. But my mother allowed me to mix freely with all. I use to live , eat , sleep , play with all my Muslim friends. I am old now and have 5 year old son. My musilm friends come and live in my house as if it is their own. The wall is already demolished and my son, when he grows, will wonder what all this fuss was all about and will sureky think of leaders and people who brought division as a low life.

I think greatly of Azad as he has come out to be progressive and today's India and Future India will make him so proud. Over time (India with its secular constitition and rule of law) will come out as a nation were all these pride and prejudices disappear.

1) Once in a while riots etc are policing issues. We are still a poor country and do not have the resources like a rich nation. But rule of law should prevail at the end..which is the case in India.
2) Gujarat - People who mention it, conveniently forget that it all started by Muslims buring ~ 100 Hindus and triggering the protest. I am not defending anybody and feels all culprits ( be in Hindu, Muslims, Politician and Bureacrats etc must be severely punished as it was loss of life of people like u and me who are least intererested in any mad behaviour of criminals).
3) Babri Masjid - While demolition was a stupidity, the issue can be better handled. There is no temple on the place yet and there may not be in future. BJP and people who drived the movement have not tried doing similar things again in the last twenty years as they have realized that they can never come to power bt alienating muslims.

Zinnah stood for division, which has and will lead to division of Pakistan at every 40-50 year interval till there will not be any thing left to divide.

Kalam was the visionary who aspired to build a future where people have all inclusive growth. We libe by his ideals and will always work to integerate all sections of our society till no mental division, be it imaginary will exist.

 

[anathema]

First of all. I suggest you go read up some Neutral history books...... Let me give you indians a HISTORY lesson.

ALL THE INDIAN LEADERS WHO WENT TO JAILS WERE BECAUSE INIDAN CONGRESS CALLED A MAJOR PROTEST AND STRIKE AGAINST BRITISH GOVERNMENT AND MUSLIM LEAGUE REFUSED TO FOLLOW INDIAN CONGRESS AT THAT TIME BY SAYING THEY WILL REMAIN PEACEFUL AND WILL SOLVE PROBLEMS THORIGH NEGOTIATIONS. SO NOT A SINGLE MUSLIM LEAGUE LEADER WENT TO JAIL BECAUSE THEY REMAIN PEACEFUL

Yeah i have often seen this happen ..almost every day..Where the 'So called' leaders let real life people slog their lives only to take the credit at the end and portray that ' They was all a part of the plan' ...Brilliant...What a sham ! ...Pretty sure everyone knows what i am talking about here.....

 

[shelly]

700 is nothing consider that after Parition until now thousands of Indian citizens have take Pakistani citizenship..Just in my social circle I can count three indians who became Pakistani during the year of 2011 either by marriage or application. One of them being a special case of citizenship being awarded by the decree of president Zardari..

Let me guess? thats Dawood Ibrahim.. or is it the khalsa wanted guy?

 

[anathema]

At what cost?? everyone wants to leave India you think that is something to shout about?

Am i seriously seeing this line from a senior member....wait , i just wiped the frost of my glasses..Holy mother .....i am indeed seeing this...

You are my Hero in '24 ways on how to become a senior member in 24 Hours'...seriously mazha aa gaya...

I am not even bothering to refute all that you are posting since my countrymen are doing decent enough job...And i also have the keen sense that Posters of good quality from the other side have kept away from this thread...

This thread was meant to ***** slap on India's face by questioning her Heroes..Instead all i can see a bunch of desparate people trying to make sure that their make believe Identify is intact...you guys have a identity crisis...Hope you guys realize this and take some corrective measures ...

On a second note - Thanks for starting this thread - I am going to dig this book and make sure that i read the book....I heard that there were two other questions that Interviewer asked Maulana which was not covered in the link..I will be very interested to see what that was.