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Jinnah VS A.Kalam Azad

This is from a highly respectable source...

The Problem Of Pakistan: Teaching Intolerance And Violence

The U.S. may have no more difficult relationship than the one it has with Pakistan. This supposed ally plays a double game in Afghanistan, mixes an unstable political system and weak civilian government with nuclear weapons, and acts as an incubator for religious intolerance. Obviously, Islamabad has its own, sometimes well-founded complaints against America. But there may be no more dangerous nation today than Pakistan.

An important cause of conflict in that divided society is the educational system. All too often, both public schools and private madrassas promote intolerance and extremism. These attitudes have encouraged increasing violence which threatens to consume the entire country with deadly effect.

In November the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom published a report written by Ashar Hussain (International Center for Religion and Diplomacy), Ahmad Salim (Sustainable Development Policy Institute), and Arif Naveed (also SDPI).

Pakistan’s birth was bloody, featuring violent conflict between and mass movement of Hindus and Muslims within the areas which became India and Pakistan. Although Pakistan’s Islamic character was clear, founder Mohammad Ali Jinnah declared: “Minorities, to whichever community they may belong, will be safeguarded. Their religion or faith of any kind will be secure. There will be no interference of any kind with their freedom of worship.”

Pakistan would be a much better place if these sentiments continued to reflect that nation’s reality. However, much has changed over the last six decades. For instance, General Muhammad Zia-ul-Haq promoted Muslim fundamentalism to win public support for his military rule. Rising Islamic currents around the world created greater receptivity to extremism. Most recently, American military operations in both Afghanistan and Pakistan generated widespread antagonism.

These factors alone would have created a tough environment in which to protect the human life and dignity of religious, ethnic, and political minorities. However, the education system for a growing youth population has created an equally serious barrier. As the Commission observed: “education plays a critical role in the fabric of Pakistani life, with the potential of bringing the society together or tearing it apart.” Today, unfortunately, education, so-called, is far too often doing the latter.

For years schooling in Pakistan was largely secular, but the public system failed to educate most students. Gen. Zia increased the money going to education, but simultaneously “infused the education system with rigid Islamic content,” explained the USCIRF. Before dying in a suspicious plane crash in 1988, the dictatorial Zia changed curriculum and textbooks for the worse.

His government stated that “The highest priority would be given to the revision of the curricula with a view to reorganizing the entire content around Islamic thought and giving education an ideological orientation so that Islamic ideology permeates the thinking of the young generation.” The problem was not that the system emphasized Islam, but instead promoted intolerant fundamentalism. Dr. Nasim Ashraf of the Middle East Institute said the Zia years were “the turning point for Pakistan’s educational system,” creating “the bedrock on which militant extremism was founded.”

The most obvious impact is that many religious minorities suffer through an education which directly attacks their faith. Noted the Commission, minority students “are forced to study from textbooks and curricula that are biased against them and routinely face discrimination and intimidation from Muslim students and teachers.” So much for Article 22 of the 1973 Pakistani constitution, which states that “No person attending any educational institution shall be required to receive religious instruction, or take part in any religious ceremony, or attend religious worship, if such instruction, ceremony or worship relates to a religion other than his own.”

Even worse, though, warned the Commission, the educational system “presents a challenge to the full implementation of protections for religious minorities, and in some cases has even been linked to physical violence against them.” And not just against non-Muslims. In effect, the Pakistani government now is training those who are determined to kill even Muslims to get their way. Last year Islamic extremists murdered a liberal Muslim governor as well as a Christian government minister. The killers came from the generation which studied under the Zia educational “reforms.”

Inflammatory textbooks are an important problem. Noted the Commission, “The portrayal of religious minorities in textbooks is generally either derogatory or omitted entirely.” Indeed, non-Muslims “are often portrayed as inferior or second-class citizens who have been granted limited rights and privileges by generous Pakistani Muslims, for which they should be grateful.” The harshest attacks are on Hindus, though Christians, Jews, and Sikhs do not receive a fair description.

In 2006 Islamabad revised its curricula guidelines for the better. However, nearly six years later, reported the USCIRF, “textbooks incorporating these revisions in line with the 2006 guidelines have not been created.” Unfortunately, the authorities have backtracked some over that time. Moreover, in the intervening years English language textbooks were changed for the worse, actually eliminating accurate descriptions of religious minorities.

More worrisome is the situation in private madrassas. They operate with minimal government oversight and choose their own educational materials. In general, Pakistani researchers (who conducted the Commission study) found that the most recent books, used for astronomy, grammar, and mathematics, date from the 14th century. Other texts are even older.

It should surprise no one that such materials present non-Muslims in a less than positive light. Noted the USCIRF: “Non-Muslims are generally portrayed in the madrassa textbooks reviewed in one of three ways: (1) kafirs (infidels) or mushrakeen (pagans), (2) dhimmis (non-Muslims living under Islamic rule), or (3) murtids (apostates, i.e., people who have turned away from Islam). Non-Muslims are never described as citizens with the constitutionally-protected rights which accompany citizenship.”

Over the last decade Islamabad has initiated some limited madrassa reform efforts, including spending more money, creating an oversight board, and prohibiting extremist indoctrination. However, in practice the government has spent most of its time attempting to convince madrassas to teach more modern and secular subjects and has not enforced its ban on hate-mongering, whether intentional or incidental. In this case Islamabad is allowing others to actively undermine the foundational principles of the nation.

In both public schools and private madrassas the problems caused by dubious curriculums and textbooks are compounded by profoundly disturbing teacher attitudes. In general public school teachers knew little about religious minorities and “expressed a strong sense of self-righteousness regarding sectarian issues.”

Large numbers believed that sectarian differences were wide and that religious minorities were not citizens. The vast majority believed that violent jihad was mandatory for Muslims. Many teachers were critical of the behavior of religious minorities and proselytized in class. Overall, reported the Commission, “As many as 80% of the respondents considered non-Muslims to be enemies of Islam.”

No surprise, madrassa teachers were even more negative towards religious minorities. After all, observed the religious panel, “As opposed to public school teachers, madrassa teachers teach (and often live) in an environment without religious diversity.”

The result? “Madrassa teachers expressed hostility for the followers of most religions.” They believed the sectarian divide was large and in jihad which was “sometimes to be directed violently against religious minorities.” While accepting religious minorities as citizens, madrassa teachers believed they should not have political power. The instructors were prone to believe in conspiracies.

Overall, the Commission found that many teachers were personally intolerant and publicly insensitive toward students of minority faiths. Teachers often reinforced discriminatory stereotypes while offering little encouragement to non-Muslim children, sending “covert and overt messages to non-Muslim students to convert to Islam.”

Thus, the problem of extremism in Pakistan has become self-perpetuating. The educational system teaches intolerance to those who will become instructors, who in turn will shape the next generation, transmitting the same intolerance. Even if the central government changes the curriculum and textbooks, the teachers will perpetuate today’s abuses.

As one would expect, given both texts and instructors, public school students were unfriendly to religious minorities. The children tended to see Pakistan as Islamic, often by sect. Although nominally respectful of religious minorities, reported the Commission, “when probed on other issues, the respect in many instances seemed vacant. Students often expressed negative views of followers of other religions.” Kids generally perceived jihad in narrow, violent terms, and many did not consider religious minorities to be citizens. Perhaps more ominously, “the majority of students simply identified non-Muslims as the enemies of Islam.”

Madrassa students had less contact with non-Muslims but, paradoxically, were more likely to view the latter as citizens with basic rights. However, the principal reason these students wanted to promote good relations was to advance proselytism. And at the same time “a majority of them considered non-Muslims as enemies of Islam, with some considering members of other Muslims sects to be enemies.”

Hostility toward Jews, Hindus, Ahmadis, and Shias was particularly noteworthy. The USCIRF added: “madrassa students indicated that Jews and Hindus, and to some extent Christians, were considered as the biggest enemies of Islam.” America, India, and Israel also were singled out as “as enemies of Islam.”

The direct victims of intolerance in the Pakistani educational system are non-Muslim students. The Commission detailed several cases. For instance, a Christian fourth-grader was singled out for the dirtiest janitorial duties and corporal punishment, and his father was threatened with loss of his job for filing a complaint. All the Christian girls at one school were failed; a protest forced the administration to regrade the annual exam. A 13-year-old girl wrote of pressure to convert and social isolation, when “teachers and my fellow students refused to eat and drink with me.” Another was insulted and beaten by his teacher and called a “dirty Christian.”

Of greater concern to Americans is the collective impact on the Pakistani people. Reported the Commission, a number of educational experts shared “a sense that discrimination is pervasive throughout Pakistani society, influencing and being influenced by the formal educational system.” They pointed to misrepresentation of the tenets of other faiths, treatment of non-Muslims as outsiders, view of religious minorities as threats to Islam and Pakistan, and insistence that Islam is the norm for Pakistanis.

Shah Jahan Baloch of Save the Children warned: “Biases created in schools at the early age have an effect in the long run and we can see them.” Dr. Khalil Masood, former Chairman of the Council of Islamic Ideology, said religious differences were “also about culture and caste.” Although religious minorities helped create Pakistan, “this political representation of non-Muslims was systematically brought to an end.” Peter Jacob of the National Commission for Peace and Justice observed: “These biases create a big chain of discrimination in all walks of life.”

Although causation is never easy to prove, those who study Pakistan’s educational system linked “biases in the education and the incidences of extremism, hatred, and violence in the country.” For instance, Jahan concluded that “it has a huge effect on religious harmony because it promotes misperceptions about sectarian diversity.” Some of the scholars saw educational intolerance encouraging the violence that has become so common against religious minorities. Yet, complained Dr. Tariz Rahman of Qaid-e-Azam University, policymakers “haven’t taken initiatives to solve these problems.”

America’s educational system obviously is far from perfect, and many problems afflict Pakistani society. However, violence threatens not only religious minorities, who face sometimes deadly persecution, but increasingly any Pakistani who eschews extremism. If those in power do not want to be consumed by the fires of Islamic extremism, they must transform an educational system which is stoking the flames.

There is nothing the U.S. can do directly. And, given the state of bilateral relations, even Washington’s indirect influence is limited. However, American officials should raise the issue, since what happens in Pakistan matters well beyond its own borders. Should Islamabad’s fragile political superstructure collapse, the consequences would be enormous, and reverberate outward throughout the region and beyond.

Pakistan began with great promise. But it increasingly looks like a failed state with nuclear weapons. Unfortunately, many of that nation’s problems are self-inflicted, starting with an educational system that helps normalize intolerance and violence.

The Problem Of Pakistan: Teaching Intolerance And Violence - Forbes
 
sorry dear, from india no one is moving out to pakistan...can't say the same for pakistan.. institutionalized crimes against minorities is the main reason

Ok mate India is great Incredible shiny. Pakistan is the pits. you happy??
 
Ok mate India is great Incredible shiny. Pakistan is the pits. you happy??

no sir, I want you to debate on this heinous crime which are committed inside the jinnah's pakistan...as you live outside of pakistan you should not show apthy to them..y humble request sir..please do debate on this..I will keep you informed.
 
M_Id_100713_jaswant_singh.jpg


Gandhi died by the hands of an assassin; Jinnah died by his devotion to Pakistan. (Lord Pethick Lawrence,My Brother(1987),biography by Fatima Jinnah.)

Mr Jinnah, was great as a lawyer, once great as a Congressman, great as a leader of Muslims, great as a world politician and diplomat, and greatest of all as a man of action, By Mr. Jinnah's passing away, the world has lost one of the greatest statesmen and Pakistan its life-giver, philosopher and guide. (Surat Chandra Bose,My Brother(1987),biography by Fatima Jinnah.)

Jinnah is one of the most extraordinary men in history. (Jawaharlal Nehru, first prime minister of India)


Although without Ghandi, Hindustan would still have gained independence and without Lenin and Mao, Russia and China would still have endured Communist revolution, without Jinnah there would have been no Pakistan in 1947. (John Biggs-Davison)

One of the greatest leaders in the Muslim world. (Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League)


[He was] the originator of the dream that became Pakistan, architect of the State and father of the world's largest Muslim nation. Mr. Jinnah was the recipient of a devotion and loyalty seldom accord to any man. (Harry S Truman, US President)


Ali Jinnah is a constant source of inspiration for all those who are fighting against racial or group discrimination.' (Nelson Mandela had come to Islamabad in 1995 and had insisted on including Karachi as a destination to visit Jinnah's Grave and his house in Karachi where upon reaching he drove straight to the Quaid's Mazar) At another occasion while addressing the ANC Mandela mentioned three names Ali Jinnah, Gandhi and Nehru as sources of inspiration for the movement against apartheid.' (Nelson Mandela, Ex-South African President)


Jinnah is Incorruptible and Brave' (Gandhi - Interview with Louis Fischer)

There is no man or woman living who imputes anything against his honour or his honesty. He was the most upright person that I know, but throughout it all, he never, as far as I know, for one moment, attempted to deceive any body, as to what he was aiming at or as to the means he attempted to adopt to get it. (Sir Patrick Spen, the last Chief Justice of undivided India)


Vis - a - Vis

SNl4S.jpg
 
So far its obvious that Azad's predictions were correct about pakistan splitting, the secterian strife in pakistan, pakistan becoming a tool in the hands of foreign powers and pakistan being ruled by military junta. While Azad became a legendary leader in independent India, establishing prides of the nation IIT, IISC etc and giving hope to the leaderless millions and millions muslims of India.

Pakistani retort has been predictable - calling Azad perverted, trailtor, slave to hindus, ghulam etc etc - in line with their upbringing and one even took a shot at Gandhi calling him ghandi gee!! LOL, highly intellectual stuff indeed, by their standards. And no retort is incomplete without posting about india's socio-economic problems (as if they don't exist in Pakistan).

After this blinding display of highly intellectual debating by pakistanis, one thing we can all agree on

WE ALL THANK JINNAH!!!
 
Pakistan authorities must do more to protect religious minorities

The Pakistan Government has failed to protect religious minorities from systematic campaigns of violence and vilification, Amnesty International said today on the first anniversary of the assassination of Minorities Minister Shahbaz Bhatti.

The only Christian member of the federal cabinet and one of a handful of Pakistan’s leading politicians to call for changes to the country's controversial blasphemy laws, Bhatti died after armed men opened fire on his car as he travelled to work in the capital, Islamabad.

“Pakistani officials should honour Bhatti’s legacy by challenging the systematic campaign of vilification and attacks on minorities,” said Sam Zarifi, Asia-Pacific director at Amnesty International.

Although Shahbaz’s brother Dr Paul Bhatti was made a special adviser to the President for religious minorities after his death, no one has replaced him as Minister for Minorities.

“The ministerial post remains vacant at this critical time, a sad reflection of the government’s inaction in the face of continued violence against minorities.”

The Pakistani Taleban claimed responsibility for killing Bhatti over his criticism of the country’s blasphemy laws – British-era criminal sanctions that were amended in the 1980s under the rule of Gen. Zia ul Haq, making it an offence to defile the Quran or Prophet Muhammad punishable by life imprisonment or death respectively.

Religious minorities have been disproportionately accused of blasphemy, but the largest proportion of victims are mainstream Muslims, reflecting the danger these laws pose to all members of Pakistani society and the rule of law.

“A year has passed since Bhatti was assassinated yet the perpetrators remain at large with no clear sign that they will be brought to justice any time soon.”

In 2009, a year after replacing military ruler Gen. Pervez Musharraf, the current government pledged to review “laws detrimental to religious harmony,” which includes the blasphemy laws.

But the government fell silent after former Punjab governor Salmaan Taseer was assassinated in January last year by one of his own security guards over his criticism of the blasphemy laws.

“After Taseer’s assassination, Minister Bhatti remained resolute in his criticisms,” Sam Zarifi said.

“Since Bhatti’s death, the Pakistan government has allowed itself to be intimidated into silence. Pakistani officials must break that silence and speak out against those who seek to harm others because of their religion.”

This year a coalition of extremist and militant religious groups has openly called for the murder of Shi’a and some Sufi Muslims, Ahmadis and Christians, and have held large rallies across Pakistan’s major cities.

On Tuesday 28 February, eighteen Shi’a Muslims were brutally shot dead in the Kohistan district of Pakistan’s north-west, after the perpetrators stopped their bus and singled them out from other passengers because of their religion.

The Pakistani government must do all it can to protect its citizens regardless of their religious background, especially where perpetrators candidly speak of committing violence against them.

“The failure to bring Bhatti’s killers to justice or protect the most vulnerable citizens from violence while extremist groups publicly call for them to be killed tells the perpetrators of abuses that they will go unpunished if they disguise their crimes as the protection of religious sentiments, even when the targets are senior government officials,” Sam Zarifi said.

“Violence against religious minorities is leading to a break down in the rule of law and increased tension within Pakistan’s diverse society.”

“The Pakistan government must take urgent, concrete measures to improve the quality of police investigations, and reform laws like those on blasphemy that promote abuses against religious minorities.”

Pakistan authorities must do more to protect religious minorities | Amnesty International
 
Oh and sachin thank you for your concern it is nice to see and so healthy you concentrating on Pakistan as we poor Pakistanis have so many problems and Indians like you have the time not only to sort your own but ours. Very healthy I would never have the time to go on idf on a Saturday to advise another Indians. Once again thanks

So far its obvious that Azad's predictions were correct about pakistan splitting, the secterian strife in pakistan, pakistan becoming a tool in the hands of foreign powers and pakistan being ruled by military junta. While Azad became a legendary leader in independent India, establishing prides of the nation IIT, IISC etc and giving hope to the leaderless millions and millions muslims of India.

Pakistani retort has been predictable - calling Azad perverted, trailtor, slave to hindus, ghulam etc etc - in line with their upbringing and one even took a shot at Gandhi calling him ghandi gee!! LOL, highly intellectual stuff indeed, by their standards. And no retort is incomplete without posting about india's socio-economic problems (as if they don't exist in Pakistan).

After this blinding display of highly intellectual debating by pakistanis, one thing we can all agree on

WE ALL THANK JINNAH!!!

I think his statements were self serving. Its a pity so few of his own community listened to him
 
Syama contrary to the persona that you see here that is produced by provocation I feel for all the hungry and downtrodden wherever they may be in the world immaterial of religion

I have always believed, that self-control is what defines one as an individual.

If you can't control yourself on the internet, how can you be sure, you can control yourself among your loved ones?
 
Oh and sachin thank you for your concern it is nice to see and so healthy you concentrating on Pakistan as we poor Pakistanis have so many problems and Indians like you have the time not only to sort your own but ours. Very healthy I would never have the time to go on idf on a Saturday to advise another Indians. Once again thanks

Thanks for the appreciation...but this is my duty to keep on informing you that inspite of having zillion problem no minorities are seeking asylum in a foreign country but pakistanis minorities are seeking asylum in india because of the atrocities happening to them in pakistan. I believe every right minded pakistani should speak against them and keep the values and principles of great jinnah intact.
 
M_Id_100713_jaswant_singh.jpg


Gandhi died by the hands of an assassin; Jinnah died by his devotion to Pakistan. (Lord Pethick Lawrence,My Brother(1987),biography by Fatima Jinnah.)

Mr Jinnah, was great as a lawyer, once great as a Congressman, great as a leader of Muslims, great as a world politician and diplomat, and greatest of all as a man of action, By Mr. Jinnah's passing away, the world has lost one of the greatest statesmen and Pakistan its life-giver, philosopher and guide. (Surat Chandra Bose,My Brother(1987),biography by Fatima Jinnah.)

Jinnah is one of the most extraordinary men in history. (Jawaharlal Nehru, first prime minister of India)


Although without Ghandi, Hindustan would still have gained independence and without Lenin and Mao, Russia and China would still have endured Communist revolution, without Jinnah there would have been no Pakistan in 1947. (John Biggs-Davison)

One of the greatest leaders in the Muslim world. (Abdul Rahman Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League)


[He was] the originator of the dream that became Pakistan, architect of the State and father of the world's largest Muslim nation. Mr. Jinnah was the recipient of a devotion and loyalty seldom accord to any man. (Harry S Truman, US President)


Ali Jinnah is a constant source of inspiration for all those who are fighting against racial or group discrimination.' (Nelson Mandela had come to Islamabad in 1995 and had insisted on including Karachi as a destination to visit Jinnah's Grave and his house in Karachi where upon reaching he drove straight to the Quaid's Mazar) At another occasion while addressing the ANC Mandela mentioned three names Ali Jinnah, Gandhi and Nehru as sources of inspiration for the movement against apartheid.' (Nelson Mandela, Ex-South African President)


Jinnah is Incorruptible and Brave' (Gandhi - Interview with Louis Fischer)

There is no man or woman living who imputes anything against his honour or his honesty. He was the most upright person that I know, but throughout it all, he never, as far as I know, for one moment, attempted to deceive any body, as to what he was aiming at or as to the means he attempted to adopt to get it. (Sir Patrick Spen, the last Chief Justice of undivided India)


Vis - a - Vis

SNl4S.jpg

well what more needs to be said. Here we internet warriors are getting so excited about nothing lol

n. I believe every right minded pakistani should speak against them and keep the values and principles of great jinnah intact.

thank you mate couldn't agree with you more I as a Pakistani was moved to follow the great man to do an LLB in UK
 
Now what we can say----

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship

NEW DELHI: More than 700 Pakistanis have acquired Indian citizenship in the last three years, the Lok Sabha was informed Tuesday.

In a written answer, Minister of State for Home Mullappally Ramachandran said while 321 Pakistanis got the citizenship in 2009, the figure dropped to 150 in 2010 but rose to 300 in 2011.

The government rejected 31 applications in 2009, 54 in 2010 and 14 in 2011.

Among Afghans, 284 became Indian citizens in 2009. The figure dropped to nine in 2010 and rose to 14 in 2011.

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship - Times Of India
 
I have always believed, that self-control is what defines one as an individual.

If you can't control yourself on the internet, how can you be sure, you can control yourself among your loved ones?

You would be amazed lol

Now what we can say----

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship

NEW DELHI: More than 700 Pakistanis have acquired Indian citizenship in the last three years, the Lok Sabha was informed Tuesday.

In a written answer, Minister of State for Home Mullappally Ramachandran said while 321 Pakistanis got the citizenship in 2009, the figure dropped to 150 in 2010 but rose to 300 in 2011.

The government rejected 31 applications in 2009, 54 in 2010 and 14 in 2011.

Among Afghans, 284 became Indian citizens in 2009. The figure dropped to nine in 2010 and rose to 14 in 2011.

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship - Times Of India

Mate the grass is always greener on the other side I wish them well in their future
 
Now what we can say----

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship

NEW DELHI: More than 700 Pakistanis have acquired Indian citizenship in the last three years, the Lok Sabha was informed Tuesday.

In a written answer, Minister of State for Home Mullappally Ramachandran said while 321 Pakistanis got the citizenship in 2009, the figure dropped to 150 in 2010 but rose to 300 in 2011.

The government rejected 31 applications in 2009, 54 in 2010 and 14 in 2011.

Among Afghans, 284 became Indian citizens in 2009. The figure dropped to nine in 2010 and rose to 14 in 2011.

Over 700 Pakistanis got Indian citizenship - Times Of India

I was thinking how Jinnahji has thought about it ??
 
I was thinking how Jinnahji has thought about it ??

Prob the same way Azadji would have thought if he had a look at those stats I put up about India.

Our leaders at partition are probably looking at all of us with some degree of disappointment. We should all try to live in a way that would have made them proud of us
 
Prob the same way Azadji would have thought if he had a look at those stats I put up about India.

Our leaders at partition are probably looking at all of us with some degree of disappointment. We should all try to live in a way that would have made them proud of us

we do not discriminate on people on the basis of Class, creed, religion, sex etc...India is the second fastest economy in the world. The days of disappointment has been over for us.
 

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