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JF17 AESA radar

Just 5-8 years.....impressive considering that this is the same China who's Jets a few decades ago were considered almost of a disposable nature !

Waisee hum loggg kiya itneiii gaiii guzreiii hain that we can't even come up with a damn indigenous radar; what would it cost to research & produce a decent pulse doppler prototype - $100 million ? Isss seh to ziyadaa tou hum awargiyoon mei zayaa kar deiteiii hain ! :undecided:

Our philosophy is different from our neighbors. Specifically, if ready made noodles are available with easy access and free of sanctions.. we would rather not spend money on a ramen factory. Better to come with indigenous development for stuff we cannot get access to rather than one that is freely available.
 
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Our philosophy is different from our neighbors. Specifically, if ready made noodles are available with easy access and free of sanctions.. we would rather not spend money on a ramen factory. Better to come with indigenous development for stuff we cannot get access to rather than one that is freely available.

oh really !

f-16-- comes with string attached. you invested 125 mn usd so that china couldn't touch it.
f-17-- engine is made in russia

Both pretty much defeat your "philosophy"
 
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Our philosophy is different from our neighbors. Specifically, if ready made noodles are available with easy access and free of sanctions.. we would rather not spend money on a ramen factory. Better to come with indigenous development for stuff we cannot get access to rather than one that is freely available.

Hmmmn you know considering the cash crunch we're pretty much always in, thats not such a bad idea !
 
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oh really !

f-16-- comes with string attached. you invested 125 mn usd so that china couldn't touch it.
f-17-- engine is made in russia

Both pretty much defeat your "philosophy"

Nope. Your perception is rather childish.

It is a load of difference between an entire aircraft and a subsystem. The F-16 is a system that is with strings which is why the JF-17 exists, but the F-16 has already seen close to 30 years of service with the PAF and it is the logical choice to keep the edge constantly sharp. The Engine on the JF-17 is currently guaranteed by Russia so there is no issue there. Even then, there are other engines through China and other supplies for it.
The AESA radar is a subsystem, so is the EW system.. they all have guaranteed suppliers at this point so there is no point spending millions on something that is available. Glided bomb were not available, so the PAF went for a indigenous manufacturing option.

So instead of trying to score cheap ego points, try to see the bigger picture from an adult perspective
 
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Nope. Your perception is rather childish.

It is a load of difference between an entire aircraft and a subsystem. The F-16 is a system that is with strings which is why the JF-17 exists, but the F-16 has already seen close to 30 years of service with the PAF and it is the logical choice to keep the edge constantly sharp. The Engine on the JF-17 is currently guaranteed by Russia so there is no issue there. Even then, there are other engines through China and other supplies for it.
The AESA radar is a subsystem, so is the EW system.. they all have guaranteed suppliers at this point so there is no point spending millions on something that is available. Glided bomb were not available, so the PAF went for a indigenous manufacturing option.

So instead of trying to score cheap ego points, try to see the bigger picture from an adult perspective

The planes you are having are only "good times" planes.
you had a pretty bad experience during war of 1965 and 1971 with US, when you had great relation with them. they sanctioned you. now you are in their bad book. if a war break out, it is pretty certain that US will sanctioned you. war is a different game altogether.
with russia, you pretty much expect the same.
if I recall you what former IAF chief had to say about aircraft engine
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/beg-borrow-or-steal-iaf-chief-to-scientists_737459.html
do you understand why he said that, when we have great friends like france, russia and israel. because this is the most critical technology. nations prepare for the worst case scenarios, pakistan though think differently.
 
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The planes you are having are only "good times" planes.
you had a pretty bad experience during war of 1965 and 1971 with US, when you had great relation with them. they sanctioned you. now you are in their bad book. if a war break out, it is pretty certain that US will sanctioned you. war is a different game altogether.
with russia, you pretty much expect the same.
if I recall you what former IAF chief had to say about aircraft engine
http://zeenews.india.com/news/nation/beg-borrow-or-steal-iaf-chief-to-scientists_737459.html
do you understand why he said that, when we have great friends like france, russia and israel. because this is the most critical technology. nations prepare for the worst case scenarios, pakistan though think differently.

Nations prepare for worst case scenarios the best they can with the funds they have available. That is all the answer you need. The rest of your post is just copy paste tirade that has been discussed to death and is off topic.

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My question simple question............... What is role of these kind of Aircrafts in 21st century (Included HAL Tejas) ?

Roles defined by their airforce for their particular threat spectrum. Your answer is irrelevant as not every airforce is going to be fighting all other airforces. This is not the Olympics.
 
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Nations prepare for worst case scenarios the best they can with the funds they have available. That is all the answer you need. The rest of your post is just copy paste tirade that has been discussed to death and is off topic.

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it doesn't make it irrelevant, as you don't have answer to it. engine is the most critical part. I have debunked your so called "philosophy of sanction free", but opposite is the case. your frontline airplanes are very prone to get sanctioned.
 
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Nations prepare for worst case scenarios the best they can with the funds they have available. That is all the answer you need. The rest of your post is just copy paste tirade that has been discussed to death and is off topic.



Roles defined by their airforce for their particular threat spectrum. Your answer is irrelevant as not every airforce is going to be fighting all other airforces. This is not the Olympics.

I see few people trolling often in every other thread and littering them for nothing. I demand a BAN! Not for me :D for trollers!
 
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The Chinese are at least five to eight years Behind in terms of AESA compared to the french. However, the solution offered to the PAF was not only Chinese, the cooling issue will still remain with GaNs but a solution exists for it even now. The PAF has decided to delay the AESA as it is happy with the current radar and does not want to increase costs excessively.

Well Oscar solution for GaAs cooling is available as well that's why been used in US fighter jets so GaNs relatively has less heat dissipation issue but as u said it remains their so I believe it may require a less robust cooling system then GaAs but any ways you have answered well because the most important part is how we manage our funds so till adversary doesn't have an extraordinary capability to counter till then our capability is enough to kept them at the gates.

One more question is their any Russian or European solution available to us or any possibility if we are interested to integrate in JF ... And about F-16 we have invested in our older ones a lot to bring them at par with Blk52+ I believe we don't have AESA option available to us neither Saber system from Northrope nor Lockheed or we would have not chosen 68-V9
 
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was i said anything wrong?

yes, I am agree with Oscar also. What they said..:-)

Did I mention you ?? or you your self thinks you are trolling :lol: their are to many trollers trolling and littering every other thread so CHILL OUT BUDDY ;)
 
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@unnamed The issue is often who is informed and who is just writing garbage. Seriously, I have been around since the start of internet. And I have posted in total more then most of you. I have read many posts on almost all famous forums. The conclusion I can tell you is that you Indians have no idea what the reality is. I mean serious. You have failed to produced a simple basic trainer yet you dream about being developer of LCA, Brahmos and many more. Maybe even PAKFA...

Back to basic. If I write something about JF17 then it is because I know the reality by talking to informed persons. I am able to distract information from pictures, articles or even not so open info. It is not that I want to brag like 99% of your kind. Your kind hides behind western names, shout crap and probably eats crap. But still thinks it is a superpowaaah.
The statements like" Indians have no idea of reality" shows your immaturity.. By stating brahmos, LCA as failed projects you proved your lack of knowledge.. Internet and these so called forums are not someones monopoly, we are also much familier with these.. Your supa powaa statement clearly shows your mentality, no wonder you makes such stupid posts..
 
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The statements like" Indians have no idea of reality" shows your immaturity.. By stating brahmos, LCA as failed projects you proved your lack of knowledge.. Internet and these so called forums are not someones monopoly, we are also much familier with these.. Your supa powaa statement clearly shows your mentality, no wonder you makes such stupid posts..

Lil Mathew? Don't you have the courage to use your real name? You guys are the same all over the net. Indians are not able to produce something decent. That is the reality.

About their Mars Probe... It is only 18 kilo. The route was planned by Nasa. Most equipment is pretty much bought on the market. Indians asked NASA to help them to correct the picture quality. And this time they did not crash something on the moon but kept in in the orbit. And then call it being part of the few doing this. Let me see a decent trainer... Oops failed. Imported PC6. Maybe a jet trainer... Oops, looking for import. Advanced trainer. oops. Imported Hawk. Maybe light fighterjet... Well after the longest development program mankind ever had it is still a dead baby. And they call Indian superpowaaah.

LCA.. Latest:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/fo...n-skies-601935


For Tejas, a Long Way to Go Before it Protects the Indian Skies
All India | Written by Sudhi Ranjan Sen | Updated: October 04, 2014 21:33 IST

The Indian Air Force's (IAF) Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) - Tejas, which has been in the making since 1983 and is expected to join the force by March, 2015, still suffers from some teething problems.

Some of the modifications that IAF has to make on the Tejas include pushing back the cockpit panels by few centimeters to prevent the toes of an ejecting pilot from getting entangled with instruments and aides and adding another 60 centimetres in length to the aircraft body to allow easy access and replacements of critical circuitry.
Apart from these critical changes, the IAF and State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) are in the process of shaving off about 550 kilograms from the aircraft, making it lighter and adding more power to it.

Senior Defence Ministry officials told NDTV that the LCA Mark-I is still somewhat far from being given any operational duty. The aircraft is expected to replace the Russian-made MiG-21 aircrafts which have already been decommissioned.

"There are several changes that are being carried out," senior IAF officials told NDTV.

On Wednesday, the first of the aircraft, built to series production, completed a 25-minute-long sortie. The Tejas LCA is expected to cost the Indian exchequer Rs. 50,000 crore.

Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Arup Raha told reporters today, "I think things will be fall in place. The first limited series production of LCA has already flown based on IOC II (Initial operational clearance). We are sure that teething problems of LCA will get over soon."

Drawing attention to the depleting fighter fleet of the IAF, Air Marshal Raha said that "the draw down has to be prevented by quick induction by induction of LCA and MMRCA." The "draw down" that Air Marshal Raha refers to is the phasing out of legacy planes like the MiG 21.

Sources said several "test points" and operational parameters still need to be validated by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification in Bangalore, ensuring that the process would take at least 12 months for completion. The LCA continues to be riddled by inadequacies and problems in integrating its radars and sensors.

"Training manuals, maintenance manuals haven't yet been prepared," an officer said adding that "the IAF expects the first squadron to be available by 2017-18."

Sources told NDTV that prior to the modifications, pilots with shoe size nine or above would have found it impossible to eject in an emergency.

"The feet would get stuck preventing a clean bail out," the officer said.

Also, critical circuits and parts that could require replacements were placed so deep inside the aircraft body that the turn-around time between sorties varied between two to three hours - considered to be exceptionally long.


"The length of the aircraft was increased to rearrange the circuits and parts to allow easy access and faster replacement," the officer added.

The first squadron of the LCA Tejas is scheduled to be based in Sulur in Tamil Nadu.

"Since there are several issues that need to be sorted, the first few jets will be based in Bangalore alongside Hal to allow for faster problem solving," officials said.

Sources said that the IAF is pinning its hopes not on the LCA Mark I but on advanced LCA (Mark-II) to replace its ageing fleet of MiG-21 variants. The LCA Mark-II or second generation of LCA is expected to have a better design besides a more powerful engine - General Electric GE-414. This is expected to generate as much as 90-96 kN thrust as against the current engines - GE-IN20 which generate only about 80-85kN thrust.

The LCA Mark-II is scheduled for flight trials by 2018. The IAF, however, feels that trials will be delayed by at least two if not three years as the current platform will have to undergo major re-engineering to accommodate the heavier GE 414 engines.
 
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Lil Mathew? Don't you have the courage to use your real name? You guys are the same all over the net. Indians are not able to produce something decent. That is the reality.

About their Mars Probe... It is only 18 kilo. The route was planned by Nasa. Most equipment is pretty much bought on the market. Indians asked NASA to help them to correct the picture quality. And this time they did not crash something on the moon but kept in in the orbit. And then call it being part of the few doing this. Let me see a decent trainer... Oops failed. Imported PC6. Maybe a jet trainer... Oops, looking for import. Advanced trainer. oops. Imported Hawk. Maybe light fighterjet... Well after the longest development program mankind ever had it is still a dead baby. And they call Indian superpowaaah.

LCA.. Latest:

http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/fo...n-skies-601935


For Tejas, a Long Way to Go Before it Protects the Indian Skies
All India | Written by Sudhi Ranjan Sen | Updated: October 04, 2014 21:33 IST

The Indian Air Force's (IAF) Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) - Tejas, which has been in the making since 1983 and is expected to join the force by March, 2015, still suffers from some teething problems.

Some of the modifications that IAF has to make on the Tejas include pushing back the cockpit panels by few centimeters to prevent the toes of an ejecting pilot from getting entangled with instruments and aides and adding another 60 centimetres in length to the aircraft body to allow easy access and replacements of critical circuitry.
Apart from these critical changes, the IAF and State-run Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) are in the process of shaving off about 550 kilograms from the aircraft, making it lighter and adding more power to it.

Senior Defence Ministry officials told NDTV that the LCA Mark-I is still somewhat far from being given any operational duty. The aircraft is expected to replace the Russian-made MiG-21 aircrafts which have already been decommissioned.

"There are several changes that are being carried out," senior IAF officials told NDTV.

On Wednesday, the first of the aircraft, built to series production, completed a 25-minute-long sortie. The Tejas LCA is expected to cost the Indian exchequer Rs. 50,000 crore.

Chief of Air Staff Air Marshal Arup Raha told reporters today, "I think things will be fall in place. The first limited series production of LCA has already flown based on IOC II (Initial operational clearance). We are sure that teething problems of LCA will get over soon."

Drawing attention to the depleting fighter fleet of the IAF, Air Marshal Raha said that "the draw down has to be prevented by quick induction by induction of LCA and MMRCA." The "draw down" that Air Marshal Raha refers to is the phasing out of legacy planes like the MiG 21.

Sources said several "test points" and operational parameters still need to be validated by the Centre for Military Airworthiness and Certification in Bangalore, ensuring that the process would take at least 12 months for completion. The LCA continues to be riddled by inadequacies and problems in integrating its radars and sensors.

"Training manuals, maintenance manuals haven't yet been prepared," an officer said adding that "the IAF expects the first squadron to be available by 2017-18."

Sources told NDTV that prior to the modifications, pilots with shoe size nine or above would have found it impossible to eject in an emergency.

"The feet would get stuck preventing a clean bail out," the officer said.

Also, critical circuits and parts that could require replacements were placed so deep inside the aircraft body that the turn-around time between sorties varied between two to three hours - considered to be exceptionally long.


"The length of the aircraft was increased to rearrange the circuits and parts to allow easy access and faster replacement," the officer added.

The first squadron of the LCA Tejas is scheduled to be based in Sulur in Tamil Nadu.

"Since there are several issues that need to be sorted, the first few jets will be based in Bangalore alongside Hal to allow for faster problem solving," officials said.

Sources said that the IAF is pinning its hopes not on the LCA Mark I but on advanced LCA (Mark-II) to replace its ageing fleet of MiG-21 variants. The LCA Mark-II or second generation of LCA is expected to have a better design besides a more powerful engine - General Electric GE-414. This is expected to generate as much as 90-96 kN thrust as against the current engines - GE-IN20 which generate only about 80-85kN thrust.

The LCA Mark-II is scheduled for flight trials by 2018. The IAF, however, feels that trials will be delayed by at least two if not three years as the current platform will have to undergo major re-engineering to accommodate the heavier GE 414 engines.

A) Can you please provide the links to prove about MOM's claim?

B) Did you know that Indian Moon mission is the first one who proved the presence of water in moon surface?

C) and at least they didn't use US/ china rockets to send MOM or Smaller Sats.

D) No one can denied the fact that indian reached mars in First attempt whereas no Country done that in first attempt...... being jealous. China mission can't even leave earth.

E) When you First JF-17 was inducted in PAf , it can't even fly in night....... now wonder why any AF inducted a plane which can't even fly in night? but PAF did.

F) PAF, relay on f-16 for bombing , which shows how much ready your JF-17 is.

G) The problems mentioned is not major ones. although IAF want much more advance plane which can overcome.

F) one can judge from the fact that, when PAF was deciding on Su-27 flanker from Russia , at same time India was planning for SU-30 MKI from Russia. See the difference.
 
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About their Mars Probe... It is only 18 kilo. The route was planned by Nasa. Most equipment is pretty much bought on the market. Indians asked NASA to help them to correct the picture quality. And this time they did not crash something on the moon but kept in in the orbit. And then call it being part of the few doing this.
You closed your eyes and saying darkness everywhere.. So according to you everything done by NASA??? Poor boy.. You know nothing about India's mars mission..Internet boy just search India mars mission and read the result links..
Every countries congratulate India after its success.. China lauds it as " PRIDE OF ASIA".. Read space journals which applauds Indian mars missions.. NASA congratulates us and now signed agreement to collaborate in future Mars missions.. Each and every space journals magazine's applause mars mission and explains the difficulty in achieving the goal of reaching mars orbit..
Think tank title not means all things you saying is correct.. Please keep quiet in subjects you dont have knowledge..
 
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