JF-17B Updates, News & Discussion

[araz]

An IRST would be interesting particularly for combat at night. If its not on the JF-17 PAF probably doesn't find it useful and perhaps the NVGs are good enough. Even F-35 doesn't have a proper IRST. Eurofighter does though. As does Rafale. And the Su-35. Maybe doesn't make sense for the smaller size of the platform.

But then the M3/5 have FLIR and IRST. The size and the load carrying capacity of JFT is far better than that of M3/5. So this logic does not seem to apply. I suspect placement in a small platform remains an issue but with redesigning of Block 3, could this have been considered and if not why? One other problem is the placement of the cannon which seems to have prevented the mounting of IRST underneath the nose. Is there an alternate solution as to me it seems that repositioning of the gun takes away another placs where a sensor POD could have been mounted like the 16. I dont know the answer but it might be an idea worth looking into. Could the gun have been mounted underneath the nose laeving 2 inlet hardpoints for sensors?
A

 

[Armchair]

But then the M3/5 have FLIR and IRST. The size and the load carrying capacity of JFT is far better than that of M3/5. So this logic does not seem to apply. I suspect placement in a small platform remains an issue but with redesigning of Block 3, could thks have been considered and if not why? One other problem is the placement of the cannon which seems to have prevented the mounting of IRST underneath the nose. Is there an alternate solution as to me it seems that repositioning of the gun takes away another placs where a sensor POD could have been mounted like the 16. I dont know the answer but it might be an idea worth looking into. Could the gun have been mounted underneath the noselaeving 2 inlet hardpoints for sensors?
A

Are you sure the Rose has an IRST as opposed to an FLIR?
Also, good point about the gun placement. Check out some of the images of IRST equiped fighters and what it looks like and where it is typically placed...

 

[GriffinsRule]

But then the M3/5 have FLIR and IRST. The size and the load carrying capacity of JFT is far better than that of M3/5. So this logic does not seem to apply. I suspect placement in a small platform remains an issue but with redesigning of Block 3, could this have been considered and if not why? One other problem is the placement of the cannon which seems to have prevented the mounting of IRST underneath the nose. Is there an alternate solution as to me it seems that repositioning of the gun takes away another placs where a sensor POD could have been mounted like the 16. I dont know the answer but it might be an idea worth looking into. Could the gun have been mounted underneath the nose laeving 2 inlet hardpoints for sensors?
A

Beneath the nose is not possible as that is where the land gear is. Besides, you dont want the gun going off right next to radar and other instrumentation due to vibrations and doubt there is enough space either. I think one LDP is just fine. What really would help is a stronger engine with a slightly larger and strengthened wing to enable an extra hardpoint. Right now, JF-17s load out is very small (given its a small aircraft) but even the MERs carry two instead of three bombs.

 

[ziaulislam]

Beneath the nose is not possible as that is where the land gear is. Besides, you dont want the gun going off right next to radar and other instrumentation due to vibrations and doubt there is enough space either. I think one LDP is just fine. What really would help is a stronger engine with a slightly larger and strengthened wing to enable an extra hardpoint. Right now, JF-17s load out is very small (given its a small aircraft) but even the MERs carry two instead of three bombs.

Stronger engine is needed...but for hard points they might find space on the otherside air intake..

Or can work on CFTs which will empty up 2 hard points that will be used for fuel tanks in almost all mission profiles

8 hard points with cfts and 98kn engine will make it a aircraft as potent as early f16a/b in range and payload

 

[SQ8]

But then the M3/5 have FLIR and IRST. The size and the load carrying capacity of JFT is far better than that of M3/5. So this logic does not seem to apply. I suspect placement in a small platform remains an issue but with redesigning of Block 3, could this have been considered and if not why? One other problem is the placement of the cannon which seems to have prevented the mounting of IRST underneath the nose. Is there an alternate solution as to me it seems that repositioning of the gun takes away another placs where a sensor POD could have been mounted like the 16. I dont know the answer but it might be an idea worth looking into. Could the gun have been mounted underneath the nose laeving 2 inlet hardpoints for sensors?
A

Stronger or having greater weight capability isn’t the only restriction. There are structural limitations on certain areas of the airplane and then CG limitations as well. The same way certain free weight exersize if done incorrectly can damage even if with light weights.

 

[MastanKhan]

Stronger or having greater weight capability isn’t the only restriction. There are structural limitations on certain areas of the airplane and then CG limitations as well. The same way certain free weight exersize if done incorrectly can damage even if with light weights.

Centripetal and centrifugal forces---????

 

[CriticalThought]

But then the M3/5 have FLIR and IRST. The size and the load carrying capacity of JFT is far better than that of M3/5. So this logic does not seem to apply. I suspect placement in a small platform remains an issue but with redesigning of Block 3, could this have been considered and if not why? One other problem is the placement of the cannon which seems to have prevented the mounting of IRST underneath the nose. Is there an alternate solution as to me it seems that repositioning of the gun takes away another placs where a sensor POD could have been mounted like the 16. I dont know the answer but it might be an idea worth looking into. Could the gun have been mounted underneath the nose laeving 2 inlet hardpoints for sensors?
A

Don't confuse between FLIR and IRST. FLIR is for IR imaging meant for human vision, IRST is for automatic tracking.

https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/...ighter-aircraft/10.1117/12.472580.short?SSO=1

Modern systems, especially the ASELPOD, combine both functionalities into one unit:

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/cap...ptical-systems/aselpod-advanced-targeting-pod

And FWIW, Aselsan provides a separate IRST unit as well:

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/cap...ared-imaging-infrared-search-and-track-system

So let there be no confusion that IRST will be available on Block 3 through ASELPOD.

 

[SQ8]

Centripetal and centrifugal forces---????

To an extent, but just basic weight distribution and structural strong points.
CG in an aircraft is critial, when I fly I have to ensure that fuel tanks balance my weight or I need to trim the aircraft a little bit until I use up the fuel in the heavier wing. Same way, hanging stuff off the aircraft causes a CG shift which not only changes the behavior of aircraft in level flight but also when maneuvering.

 

[messiach]

@All @Oscar @MastanKhan
Because of radar change, a new IFF transponder will be incorporated for BVR engagements. Russians are definitely interested in tot wrt their turbofan technology. You will see progress herein. We are now in process of getting new airborne AWACS radars.

 

[Chak Bamu]

@All @Oscar @MastanKhan
Because of radar change, a new IFF transponder will be incorporated for BVR engagements. Russians are definitely interested in tot wrt their turbofan technology. You will see progress herein. We are now in process of getting new airborne AWACS radars.

Hmmm....

So then we would have 3 types of airborne early warning radar assets (Saab, Korakoram, & another addition)? That does not seem to be a very healthy state of affairs.

Good to know that we have options for turbofan ToT. Pakistan can make use of your talents & education.

 

[araz]

@All @Oscar @MastanKhan
Because of radar change, a new IFF transponder will be incorporated for BVR engagements. Russians are definitely interested in tot wrt their turbofan technology. You will see progress herein. We are now in process of getting new airborne AWACS radars.

@messiach.
Thank you for your informative posts. Please keep updating us as your input is valued. It is interesting that as soon as the WS13 is coming on line the Red Bear wants to provide us TOT. Hmm.
A

Don't confuse between FLIR and IRST. FLIR is for IR imaging meant for human vision, IRST is for automatic tracking.

https://www.spiedigitallibrary.org/...ighter-aircraft/10.1117/12.472580.short?SSO=1

Modern systems, especially the ASELPOD, combine both functionalities into one unit:

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/cap...ptical-systems/aselpod-advanced-targeting-pod

And FWIW, Aselsan provides a separate IRST unit as well:

http://www.aselsan.com.tr/en-us/cap...ared-imaging-infrared-search-and-track-system

So let there be no confusion that IRST will be available on Block 3 through ASELPOD.

Thank you and I stand corrected.
A

Hmmm....

So then we would have 3 types of airborne early warning radar assets (Saab, Korakoram, & another addition)? That does not seem to be a very healthy state of affairs.

Good to know that we have options for turbofan ToT. Pakistan can make use of your talents & education.

Is @messiach referring to the Saab Awacs or something else? needs clarification

 

[MIRauf]

Wasn't the PAF plan to upgrade Karakoram Eagles to the KJ-500 AESA radar level ?

 

[GumNaam]

Wasn't the PAF plan to upgrade Karakoram Eagles to the KJ-500 AESA radar level ?

they probably already have. these things are kept under wraps man, don't expect any news anytime soon.

 

[MIRauf]

they probably already have. these things are kept under wraps man, don't expect any news anytime soon.

KJ-500 has a non-rotating Radar, it be very easy to sight the difference from rotating Dish of K-Eagle.

 

[GumNaam]

KJ-500 has a non-rotating Radar, it be very easy to sight the difference from rotating Dish of K-Eagle.

well they aren't gonna take off an land with the dish rotating and probably won't be operating from bases in densely populated areas for obvious reasons...