JF-17 Thunder programme has achieved important milestones: Air Chief

[silent hawk]

Hi,

The bottomline is----Pakistan---the nation---needed an air superiority aircraft for its defense----the person or the organization which needed to procure it---the Pakistan air force---failed in its endeavor---.

In layman's term---the nation of Pakistan asked its air force to go buy a 50 lbs sledge hammer to smash the large concrete block----the PAF took upon itself to get a 5 lbs hammer and then made the excuse that it was EASY ON THE WRISTS----@silent hawk ---what do you say sir.

AoA
PAFs acquisitions may be questionable but there resolve and utilization is not. they have been able to keep IAF at bay even when there was a serious threat of surgical strikes. It is about offense now. I have heard that CAS would be going to Russia soon. Hopefully we would get our heavies then.
Regards

 

[Aamir Hussain]

@MastanKhan

I agree with you loiter time is another area that needs drastic improvement.

Engine thrust in afterburner mode:
RD-93 --- 18,260 lbf. (Platform empty weight 14,143 lbs),
Atar 9C --- 13,320 lbf in afterburner mode (Platform empty weight 15, 540 lbs for Mirage III and 15,763 lbs Mirage IV)
WP-13F ----14,550 lbf (Platform empty weight 11,667 lbs)
F110-GE-100 --- 28,600 lbf / F100-PW-229 EEP --- 29,660 lbs (Platform empty weight 18,900 lbs block 50)

This proves your point.

As far as cockpit visibility is concerned, till today instructors at top gun and other schools teach their pilots to keep the attacking aircraft in sight at all times during a dog fight. Blind spots for a pilot will be the difference between survival and death in close combat maneuvering.

There certainly other areas where improvement is needed: Radar, Use of Composites to reduce weight and increase payload and range.

 

[Foxtrot-Bravo]

Lets all hope and pray that is the case. But if you look at the history of aviation in the last 50 years many corporations and countries are no where to be seen. Even counteries like Argentina, Egypt and Poland had a crack at making fighter jets but you don't see front line fighters made by these countries in modern times. If we want to be seen as country that can make a top class front line fighter then the road for us long and bumpy. Inshallah we will get there

Yup, there you got it. We just have begun and without any doubts our beginning has been great and successful so there will be much more thrilly to see in future Insha'Allah

 

[Humble Analyst]

@MastanKhan

I agree with you loiter time is another area that needs drastic improvement.

Engine thrust in afterburner mode:
RD-93 --- 18,260 lbf. (Platform empty weight 14,143 lbs),
Atar 9C --- 13,320 lbf in afterburner mode (Platform empty weight 15, 540 lbs for Mirage III and 15,763 lbs Mirage IV)
WP-13F ----14,550 lbf (Platform empty weight 11,667 lbs)
F110-GE-100 --- 28,600 lbf / F100-PW-229 EEP --- 29,660 lbs (Platform empty weight 18,900 lbs block 50)

This proves your point.

As far as cockpit visibility is concerned, till today instructors at top gun and other schools teach their pilots to keep the attacking aircraft in sight at all times during a dog fight. Blind spots for a pilot will be the difference between survival and death in close combat maneuvering.

There certainly other areas where improvement is needed: Radar, Use of Composites to reduce weight and increase payload and range.

The Mirage V delivery systems have been tried over time (Exocet etc.) JF 17 is still in testing adopting phase. Until the time we acquire real maritime role Aircraft we will have to rely on Mirage V for that role. The point I am making is that JF17 and Mirage do not fulfill enhanced requirements of Maritime role.

 

[araz]

Here we go again!!!

Please prezs the red button. There is no other answer to this stupidity.
A

 

[Viper0011.]

The latest number thrown around is 275. The document of ACM Khalid mehmood interview. Two things were of importance in it. The number 275 and JF-17 wont stop at block III. We might see IV V VI blocks in JF-17

I think Pakistan should get J-10C TOT, and build it under JFT block III as a different plane (like F-16's were changed and the block 52 is an entirely different plane then previous blocks of F-16, only shares Falcon like looks). And then they should get a smaller J-31 one engine platform and make JFT block 4 stealth optimized. That would be the way to go.

A total of three manufacturing facilities. 1: for block I and II's, 2: for J-10C like JFT block III and 3rd: for stealth optimized JFT's, single engine version of the J-31!!

JF-17 Thunder may not be like F-16 or F-18 but a least these jet fighters will not let Pakistan be much affected by military sanctions imposed by USA during war and other difficult times.

And you create internal aircraft manufacturing, avionics and advanced weapons development industries, millions of new and hi-tech jobs for Pakistanis, no sanctions, over time hundreds of billions saved!!! Not bad at all!!!

@MastanKhan As far as cockpit visibility is concerned, till today instructors at top gun and other schools teach their pilots to keep the attacking aircraft in sight at all times during a dog fight. Blind spots for a pilot will be the difference between survival and death in close combat maneuvering.

That's not what Fighter Weapons School, aka, the Top Gun teaches for Dog Fights anymore. This was pre 4.5 Gen training. Now, the radars track the enemy aircraft, and the computer adjusts the AOA. You just have to keep the airplane within your JHMS. Advanced missiles can now hit a target within a few hundreds meters away and even on the rear. Dog fight by keeping the enemy at your six, are gone.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

The Mirage V delivery systems have been tried over time (Exocet etc.) JF 17 is still in testing adopting phase. Until the time we acquire real maritime role Aircraft we will have to rely on Mirage V for that role. The point I am making is that JF17 and Mirage do not fulfill enhanced requirements of Maritime role.

You r right. 32 Mirage V PA will remain in service beyond 2015 or till such time when Exocet is integrated or an alternate weapon systems is mated with the new delivery platform.

But mind you, the Mirage is nearing its end of life cycle pretty quick

 

[MastanKhan]

The Mirage V delivery systems have been tried over time (Exocet etc.) JF 17 is still in testing adopting phase. Until the time we acquire real maritime role Aircraft we will have to rely on Mirage V for that role. The point I am making is that JF17 and Mirage do not fulfill enhanced requirements of Maritime role.

Hi,

Thank you for your post---. Today's naval battle is a different kind of war---. The war ships are different with so much enhanced capabilities than of those 20 years ago---.

Bot these aircraft that you mentioned are too small to do the job----. They cannot stay in the the air for long---they cannot carry a heavy load either----.

The loiter time is very small---so they cannot circle the prey and strike at an opportune moment----. For that reason these two aircraft have a very narrow window of opportunity to slip thru and strike at the target.

AoA
PAFs acquisitions may be questionable but there resolve and utilization is not. they have been able to keep IAF at bay even when there was a serious threat of surgical strikes. It is about offense now. I have heard that CAS would be going to Russia soon. Hopefully we would get our heavies then.
Regards

Hi,

Thank you sir----resolve is not the question---dedication is not the issue---. The problem is with TOO MUCH RESOLVE---sort of over confidence----that is the issue---. And seemingly---the decisions being made in the last 14 years reflect heavily on that.

This is how the PAF thinks-----looking from their past record---the picture does not look very good---.

I can heave all the praise on the PAF---but then I would be a liar and be dishonest to the country and the nation----.

" Michael Shermer puts it in his book *[The Believing Brain----the human brain is a “belief engine.”

We are pattern-seeking machines. We look for connections everywhere. We get things right a lot of times, but we often get things totally wrong ".

 

[monitor]

What are they going to manufacture after JF 17 ?


If you are not going to give j10

I hope J-31 under license .

 

[Saurabh jindals]

JF-17 is a great plane.
The best thing is, it can fly & shoot missiles unlike the neighbors teja bhai who free loads on trailer all day long.


In Block III, we should add AESA radar, new & better targeting pod, dual seater version, better engine than RD93, & it should come in black.


Nice wallpaper btw

What can be achieved by JF-17 by paf in defense ? Why china not inducted in it air force ? First example a fighter not inducted by own air force but still able to export to another country's Air force. Also I dont know but want to know about Paks contribution other then assembling in JF 17. I mean which sub systems are developed in pak of JF 17 ?

 

[I S I]

What can be achieved by JF-17 by paf in defense ? Why china not inducted in it air force ? First example a fighter not inducted by own air force but still able to export to another country's Air force. Also I dont know but want to know about Paks contribution other then assembling in JF 17. I mean which sub systems are developed in pak of JF 17 ?

JF17 suits our needs. For China, it doesn't. Just like Teja bhai doesn't fulfill IAF requirements.

 

[Imran Khan]

What can be achieved by JF-17 by paf in defense ? Why china not inducted in it air force ? First example a fighter not inducted by own air force but still able to export to another country's Air force. Also I dont know but want to know about Paks contribution other then assembling in JF 17. I mean which sub systems are developed in pak of JF 17 ?

how many SU-30s russian air force have ? 0.00 its mean SU-30 is useless aircraft even its own producer did not use it ?

 

[Sinnerman108]

Hi,

Well--it is a force multiplier from the bottom upwards----.

If paf had procured the 72 BLK 52s in 2005----this aircraft would be the perfect fill in needed to replace all those aircraft---.

The problem we are seeing is the large imbalance of power between the top tier and the bottom tier----. For tht reason you are concerned and I am concerned as so many others who do not kow tow to the ideology of the paf.

I am increasing inclined to accept that most of these problems is because the PAF is making the Jets,

I do believe that PAF should have restricted it's role to that of a user, and setting requirements;
whereas a completely different and independent entity should have been given a budget to produce the best.

 

[Quwa]

I am increasing inclined to accept that most of these problems is because the PAF is making the Jets,

I do believe that PAF should have restricted it's role to that of a user, and setting requirements;
whereas a completely different and independent entity should have been given a budget to produce the best.

The thing is that most of Pakistani defence 'industry' is in reality an arm of the military, though to our credit we have been federating these out into relatively independent bureaus over the past decade (e.g. NESCOM). It is time that PAC AMF should also be an independent R&D bureau, independent of the PAF and staffed with a heavy civilian and well exposed retired officer (i.e. those who've worked for Thales, LM, Boeing, etc after leaving PAF) presence.

 

[Bratva]

I am increasing inclined to accept that most of these problems is because the PAF is making the Jets,

I do believe that PAF should have restricted it's role to that of a user, and setting requirements;
whereas a completely different and independent entity should have been given a budget to produce the best.

Look towards the neighbor and see how there experiment of LCA turned out. with HAL and ADA being a separate entity