What's new

JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

16684097_10208538056395678_3426329197857193528_n.jpg

Thunder with WS-13

What is the dry and wet thrust of ws-13e?

RD93 has more petals vs WS-13 if this is WS-13
jf-17_thunder_exhaust_idle_1.jpg

Google Translation....and excerpt from the same article as following.... @messiach your valuable input please. Thanks.

Armament analysis | advanced in the three arrows Qi Xia Falcon eagle foreground bright

WS-13 "Tarzan" project, the WS-13 is not a simple copy RD- 93, but to modernize it . Improvement plan sub-small change, change, big change, (not the subject of the corresponding "three arrows").

image


1 , "small change" is to maintain RD-93 engine outline size and weight basically unchanged, in the succession of domestic mature technology, based on the use of a large number of mature advanced technology and high thrust-weight ratio engine a number of technical achievements, RD -93 engine in the structure of the various components of the optimal design and improved design, in some very small aspects have also been redesigned, making it a higher reliability and durability of the WS-13 "Taishan" engine. WS-13 in 2001 to start pre-research, in 2003 formally entered the engineering design, the total division Huang Weina (now Vice President of the turbine), 05 in the Air Group project, the first in 2006 the whole machine platform test success, Completed in 2008 high-altitude platform assessment , completed in 2009 pilot flight test, 2010-4-18 Xiaolong maiden flight success, the spring of 2012 stereotypes . Can be considered a decade of grinding sword, your hair through the development of WS-13, technically a new level.

" Tarzan" WS-13 turbofan engine on the basis of the RD-93 engines, made the following aspects to improve: (1) intake port 4 to strut front swept 20 Ge variable camber inlet guide Leaf . (2) fan rotor drum from the traditional radial pin-connected structure to the entire fan rotor with electron beam welding for a whole structure. (3) high-pressure compressor rotor electron beam welding and bolted connection of the mixed structure , the first three discs with BT-9 titanium alloy, the first 4 to 6 disk made of high-temperature titanium alloy, 1 to 6 with electronic Beam welding as one. 7 to 9 disc made of powder metallurgy, with a long bolt before the 7 disc, and after the grate plate and rear axle connected as a whole. (4) the use of FGH4097 nickel-based high- temperature alloy powder directly hot isostatic pressing parts, manufacturing turbine disk, compressor drum drum shaft and other high- temperature rotating parts. (5) Afterburner and tail nozzle to optimize the design, the use of new high-temperature alloy materials , improved cooling design, reduce weight. Other details of the engine there are many other improvements, not detailed here. The improved 8.7-tonne WS-13 has an average life of 2775 hours, greatly improving service life, while maintaining serviceability and reducing operating and maintenance costs.

image



2 , "change" is reported last year, 2012-02-1 3 increase by pushing the first type WS-13E , maximum thrust increased to 9 tons. The main improvement is (1) Although the fan is still four, but the first stage fan has improved, speed + 1.1%, flow + 7.1% (7kg / s), pressure ratio + 7.4%, efficiency increased 2.9%. (2) using three generations of single crystal blades, and improve the turbine inlet temperature of 50 ℃ . (3) control system using all-digital engine control system. System also comes with anti-surge protection devices and fault detection and diagnosis system. (4) Through the use of new smoke-free combustor technology, WS-13E in the work of the smoke generated by a significant reduction.

CCTV fighters in the introduction of falcon, said the assembly is made of domestic engine, according to time projections should be WS-13 rather than push-type WS-13E. In the interview, the general division of Sun Chang responded "black smoke", said 31001 is to verify the aircraft platform, so use a mature engine. WS-13E in 2012-08-14 completion of the flight test (scheduled type), formal formal in 2015 , the figure is assembled WS-13E engine Xiaolong, you can see the use of the nozzle and RD-93 are significantly different .


image


Last year, the media reported that Pakistan decided to continue to use the Russian production of RD-93, so the end of 2014 China and Russia signed 100 units. I believe that this is because the Russian launch of the thrust of 9 tons, with FADEC (power transfer) of the RD-33MK (below), although WS-13E is also 9 tons with FADEC, but the Pakistani side to consider more logistics . Bika Guigang in 2016 will be put into the WS-13E mass production, there is no suitable for domestic aircraft fighters, then the assembly is certainly in the order for the third country and the production of Fierce Dragon.

image


3, "big change" is the 2012 air show on display 9500Kg program. The engine's retrofit is based on increased intake air, which increases the efficiency of the fan and compressor. Turbine Court envisaged to fan to three, the core of the various parts of the machine also has a larger change.

image


image


2014 Zhuhai Air Show, the turbines on display a "high-load two-stage fan", the total pressure ratio of 4.27 , which is much higher than RD-93 3.48, F414 is only 4.03.

image

 
. .
@Deino is this ws13?


No and from what I know the WS-13 has not a different number of pedals in comparison to the RD-93.
From what I read, the WS-13 however has in fact these silverish pedals.
By the way this side-by-side comparison of both nozzles is way off, since the WS-13 (assuming it is in fact one) has the nozzle fully open whereas the RD-93 is closed.

Deino
 
. .
The above is RD93 with more petals and blueish color
WS13 has less petals and golden metallic/golden color as follows if it is true

image


RD 93 as folllows open afb
jf-17_thunder_exhaust_idle_1.jpg
there is a bit difference between ws-13 , ws-13a and especially ws-13e with the silver one most probably ws-13e
 
. .
Reportedly FC-31 V2.0 flew with WS-13E and nozzle petals were black.
since ws-13e was expected to enter masss production in 2k16 , its possible that the installed units on fc31v2 were new out of the factory with some modifications as this engine isnt mature still
 
.
since ws-13e was expected to enter masss production in 2k16 , its possible that the installed units on fc31v2 were new out of the factory with some modifications as this engine isnt mature still

There are no credible sources quoting as such about finalization of WS-13E but only the same was reported with FC-31 V2.0 though, IMO, we have to wait for credible news or some deliberate leaks/hints as confirmation. However, the same is not yet officially matured nor entered into mass production and we can expect the same by end of this year (read here reported mass production in 2016).
 
.
There are no credible sources quoting as such about finalization of WS-13E but only the same was reported with FC-31 V2.0 though, IMO, we have to wait for credible news or some deliberate leaks/hints as confirmation. However, the same is not yet officially matured nor entered into mass production and we can expect the same by end of this year (read here reported mass production in 2016).
yes u r right but my argument was based on sayings of chinese military spokesamn who said earlier that 2016 is mass production year...
 
.
@The Eagle
1- GAIC designs and fabricates WS series engines incld series 13. Its a mature design, 100+ kN - 22,450 lb.
2- Its a eight stage axial compressor , twin spool - different from RD engines - greater efficiency @ low airspeed. and High bypass effect for series A and E.
3- There were three variants designed, A - augmented bypass, E ~ Ab, & C - variant C was an R&E design.
4- Outlet is not the same of RD engines, based on a different nozzle geometry altogether.
 
.
@The Eagle
1- GAIC designs and fabricates WS series engines incld series 13. Its a mature design, 100+ kN - 22,450 lb.
2- Its a eight stage axial compressor , twin spool - different from RD engines - greater efficiency @ low airspeed. and High bypass effect for series A and E.
3- There were three variants designed, A - augmented bypass, E ~ Ab, & C - variant C was an R&E design.
4- Outlet is not the same of RD engines, based on a different nozzle geometry altogether.

so in short much batter than RD-93 but than why PAF decided to continue to use RD-93, logistics cold not be the only reason .... can you plz share some more about the WS-13 engine and would also like to read your opinion about the PAF's decision to avoid it ...
 
.
Any post about WS series on JF17 is rubbish

There has never been a prototype JF17 flown by indigenous engine end off

Fanboy dreams however die hard and they will continue to post out of date crap

Did J-31 use indigenous engine ? Yes
 
.
It is to do with the very initial agreement between china and russia over continuous supply of RD turbines, to which china is the principal guaranteer. Both PLAAF and PAF want long-term relationships with RuAF. Russians have been helpful to us. JF17 could not have materialized without them. @aziqbal WS13 E/C and lately RD33-3 both have been tested onboard FC-1.


so in short much batter than RD-93 but than why PAF decided to continue to use RD-93, logistics cold not be the only reason .... can you plz share some more about the WS-13 engine and would also like to read your opinion about the PAF's decision to avoid it ...
 
. .
It is to do with the very initial agreement between china and russia over continuous supply of RD turbines, to which china is the principal guaranteer. Both PLAAF and PAF want long-term relationships with RuAF. Russians have been helpful to us. JF17 could not have materialized without them. @aziqbal WS13 E/C and lately RD33-3 both have been tested onboard FC-1.
IIRC at the 2015 Dubai Air Show PAC officials told IHS Jane's that the RD-33MK was under consideration. But I don't see the point of fitting a 4,000 hour engine on airframes with less than 4,000 hours of life in them. New engines will almost certainly becoming with new JF-17 frames. It would really be a nice way to round out the Block-III, but it doesn't seem like an engine switch (in the PAF) would come that early.
 
.
Back
Top Bottom