JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Goku-kun]

Let's take this conversation to New Fighter for PAF doctrine thread.

how much does pakistan get from selling one thunder?
i mean:
engine:rd-93:russia
ejection seat:martin baykar:uk
targeting pod:aselpod:turkey
than pakistan and china..
so if one bird is of 25million usd than how much does pakistan get from selling one bird?

 

[PakFactor]

how much does pakistan get from selling one thunder?
i mean:
engine:rd-93:russia
ejection seat:martin baykar:uk
targeting pod:aselpod:turkey
than pakistan and china..
so if one bird is of 25million usd than how much does pakistan get from selling one bird?

Long run you don’t make money by selling the plane but through parts and services to the end user along with armaments.

 

[Akh1112]

Based on my understanding, yes. The reason is optimization. Aircraft are optimized to a high degree so changing a thing here and a thing here can sometimes have unexpectedly drastic consequences. For example, moving the engine 10 cm up vertically in the airframe might make the RCS 10 times smaller (totally made up example to make a point) but doing that is next to impossible for an existing jet. Furthermore, composites and metals interact in complicated ways so that must be taken into account.

That being said, you can make small changes to reduce the RCS of an existing aircraft, but the benefit will probably be quite limited. In my opinion RAM are the only viable option for reducing the RCS of an existing design, assuming that you can develop a RAM that doesn't peel off every 10 hours or something and doesn't do other bad things like that.

Yep, makes perfect sense, wanted to double check with you. Thank you!

I do wonder whether you could retrofits stuff like radar blockers, the flanker family intakes should be somewhat similar yet the 35 carries blockers, admittedly, I’m not sure whether they’re an engine side thing or an airframe side thing thougj

 

[MastanKhan]

Ok.
But I distinctly remeber an f22 captured in a rafale's gunsights.

Thanks
That was precisely my point.
But one wonders , why an aircraft so overwhelmingly superior is slated to be retired by 2030.
Any way, their aircraft , their decision.

Hi,

You kids are so innocent when it comes to the americans.

Because they have created something that is far more advanced than it.

 

[BON PLAN]

DELTA is its own limitations its built for high altitudes less maneuverability unless its will have canards or TVC

??? Mirage 2000 is able to deal with F16 in WVR fight (it has to win quick thanks to its better instantaneous turn rate. If not it loose too much energy and F16 wins thanks to a better sustain turn rate)

 

[White and Green with M/S]

??? Mirage 2000 is able to deal with F16 in WVR fight (it has to win quick thanks to its better instantaneous turn rate. If not it loose too much energy and F16 wins thanks to a better sustain turn rate)

Both designs have their own limitations no design is %

 

[The Eagle]

how much does pakistan get from selling one thunder?
i mean:
engine:rd-93:russia
ejection seat:martin baykar:uk
targeting pod:aselpod:turkey
than pakistan and china..
so if one bird is of 25million usd than how much does pakistan get from selling one bird?

Such a math is different as compare to how few of us look at it like shopping in super mart. Pod is not must equipment and customer will pay additionally. A clean sheet Thunder might cost around 30m$ a piece but you are missing the service charges, after sale services, infrastructure building and supply. Not just that, such huge business is being run based on earning in years. It's not like weekly or monthly grocery shopping.

 

[CriticalThought]

Yep, makes perfect sense, wanted to double check with you. Thank you!

I do wonder whether you could retrofits stuff like radar blockers, the flanker family intakes should be somewhat similar yet the 35 carries blockers, admittedly, I’m not sure whether they’re an engine side thing or an airframe side thing thougj

Here is another way to look at it. PAC has no prior design experience of making a fifth gen aircraft. It is foolishness to expect a jump straight to fifth gen. On the other hand, Thunder is the perfect platform to test various fifth gen concepts. No one is talking about a light weight fifth gen aircraft. But there is a definite possibility of seeing fifth gen concepts on Thunder. As an example, inlet design may be so subtly updated that your eyes won't be able to tell the difference, but on a heat map it can lead to drastically reducing the heat signature. It doesn't make Thunder a fifth gen aircraft, but it is a fifth gen concept. Similarly, key areas of the aircraft can be optimized to reduce the radar signature. This includes a stealth nose and inlets, judicious use of composites and RAM coating, managing the heat signature, controlling EM emissions etc. And then there are the software features such as LPI AESA radar, AI, HMD/S etc. If a higher rated engine is used, you can get more power for these electronic features. Another 4+ gen feature is super cruise which can be possible by a combination of better engine and materials.

The point is, there are many avenues left to take Thunder to the next level. I do not believe the design has been maxed out yet.

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

Hi,

You kids are so innocent when it comes to the americans.

Because they have created something that is far more advanced than it.

Watch your mouth mastan khan
I know you are a septugenarian. But it would be prudent to act like one. Stop calling others as kids.
It never reflects you as a better person.
About your knowledge depth....., I am aware, May be selling too many used cars have led you to an addiction for gasoline sniffing..... triggering senility.

I am no kid, I have seen 45 years of life.
Regards

 

[Windjammer]

 

[MastanKhan]

Watch your mouth mastan khanI know you are a septugenarian. But it would be prudent to act like one. Stop calling others as kids.
It never reflects you as a better person.About your knowledge depth....., I am aware, May be selling too many used cars have led you to an addiction for gasoline sniffing..... triggering senility.
I am no kid, I have seen 45 years of life.Regards

Hi,

Okay---if you say so.

 

[SQ8]

Watch your mouth mastan khan
I know you are a septugenarian. But it would be prudent to act like one. Stop calling others as kids.
It never reflects you as a better person.
About your knowledge depth....., I am aware, May be selling too many used cars have led you to an addiction for gasoline sniffing..... triggering senility.

I am no kid, I have seen 45 years of life.
Regards

Have you heard of Dunning-Kruger effect? - can be lifelong.

 

[Engima Chaudhry]

Have you heard of Dunning-Kruger effect? - can be lifelong.

Yes,
Have been suspecting that, reading his contempt-ridden---nearly a decade long ---disdain for PAF .

 

[Akh1112]

Here is another way to look at it. PAC has no prior design experience of making a fifth gen aircraft. It is foolishness to expect a jump straight to fifth gen. On the other hand, Thunder is the perfect platform to test various fifth gen concepts. No one is talking about a light weight fifth gen aircraft. But there is a definite possibility of seeing fifth gen concepts on Thunder. As an example, inlet design may be so subtly updated that your eyes won't be able to tell the difference, but on a heat map it can lead to drastically reducing the heat signature. It doesn't make Thunder a fifth gen aircraft, but it is a fifth gen concept. Similarly, key areas of the aircraft can be optimized to reduce the radar signature. This includes a stealth nose and inlets, judicious use of composites and RAM coating, managing the heat signature, controlling EM emissions etc. And then there are the software features such as LPI AESA radar, AI, HMD/S etc. If a higher rated engine is used, you can get more power for these electronic features. Another 4+ gen feature is super cruise which can be possible by a combination of better engine and materials.

The point is, there are many avenues left to take Thunder to the next level. I do not believe the design has been maxed out yet.

I can’t imagine PAC has much input on engine thermal management.

aside from the list you’ve left, we’re forgetting the main function of the jf-17, it’s a cheap and capable little plane to defend our airspace. It’s very clear what the PAF wants from azm, and what that is, is not what the jf17 offers, rather, tfx, or to a lesser extent some fc31 variant.

yes. This is not the final iteration of the jf-17 IMO either, but it’s not what you think, rather,a variant with greater domestic content, not ‘LO’ features.

having a pointy nose does not make an aircraft ‘LO’. Jamd’s Answer kinda also answers this, it’s not as simple as pointy nose+ ram - stealthy, and it doesn’t need to be anyway.

Wrt your point of pac not having experience, yeah, that’s why they’re explicitly asking for a partner

 

[Gripen9]