JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Marker]

Is this jet made in 2018 ?

JF-17 S# pattern

yy-bs#

yy - 20yy (last two digit of year of production)
b - Block number for JF-17A starting from 1 to 5 and 6 is designated for JF-17B Block 2
s#- last two digits of s# indicates the block wise order of production of JF-17.

 

[Aryeih Leib]

JF-17 S# pattern

yy-bs#

yy - 20yy (last two digit of year of production)
b - Block number for JF-17A starting from 1 to 5 and 6 is designated for JF-17B Block 2
s#- last two digits of s# indicates the block wise order of production of JF-17.

Ok thanks

 

[Irfan Baloch]

JF-17 S# pattern

yy-bs#

yy - 20yy (last two digit of year of production)
b - Block number for JF-17A starting from 1 to 5 and 6 is designated for JF-17B Block 2
s#- last two digits of s# indicates the block wise order of production of JF-17.

in the process of steering the discussion back to the subject matter I started looking up what engine powered the Gripen originally and it was a GE404 based Volvo RM12 engine with almost same performance like the RD 93. knowing Western European technology to be more reliable due to better engineering and performance we will always flirt with the possibility of equipping JF-17 with the western technology if it brings performance and reliability improvements and looking at Sweden makes sense if the components (engines, radars, weapons etc) are without any sanctions prone elements

 

[Akh1112]

Thanks for the reply

np

 

[MIRauf]

in the process of steering the discussion back to the subject matter I started looking up what engine powered the Gripen originally and it was a GE404 based Volvo RM12 engine with almost same performance like the RD 93. knowing Western European technology to be more reliable due to better engineering and performance we will always flirt with the possibility of equipping JF-17 with the western technology if it brings performance and reliability improvements and looking at Sweden makes sense if the components (engines, radars, weapons etc) are without any sanctions prone elements

For Engine, I do not see an Option from West:
French, Safran --> Susceptible to Pressure, in bed with Indians. Very slim chance if any that they will sell to Pakistan.
UK RR --> Better chance then France to sell, however can cave under US pressure more then the Frenchies.
Sweden: Copy of US Engine or mostly US made parts.

Radar / Avionics: Italian ? very likely to sell to Pakistan, PAF, PN, PA, however small chance of releasing the source code to incorporate Chinese or Local Munition. Now you have to create separate Munition sources for their Avionics (Radar. ) Swedish ? fickle as they crave for bigger slice from India, they are like "Hanging on the promises in songs of yesterday,' waiting for a carrot that is taking forever to fall in their lap and likely will keep on waiting.

If you would prefer Western, then just go for the US, least you know if you will be sanctioned or not. More then likely you will be sanctioned sometime in future and that is just given and you don't have to wait to hear if the supplier is going to cave under US pressure or not.

So in a nut shell, JF-17 will stay with the Ruskie Engine, Chinese Avionics, Chinese and Pakistani Munitions. Perhaps one day in future the Avionics will be part Pakistani if not all and same case for the munition.

 

[Marker]

in the process of steering the discussion back to the subject matter I started looking up what engine powered the Gripen originally and it was a GE404 based Volvo RM12 engine with almost same performance like the RD 93. knowing Western European technology to be more reliable due to better engineering and performance we will always flirt with the possibility of equipping JF-17 with the western technology if it brings performance and reliability improvements and looking at Sweden makes sense if the components (engines, radars, weapons etc) are without any sanctions prone elements

Engine/Specifications	RD-93	RM-12
Length	4.229 m	4.04 m
Diameter	1.04 m	0.889 m
Weight	1055 kg	1054 kg
Military thrust	50 kN	54 kN
Wet thrust	81.3 kN	80.5 kN

Since there is a noticeable difference in dimensions ie length and diameter of both engines, therefore structural change may be required to house the engine.

Dry thrust is more in RM-12, however wet thrust is slightly less.

PAF may consider this engine as an option for JF-17 provided, the same is available without any hitches and restrictions.

There was some rumor about testing an European engine on JF-17, but I was unable to verify it.

 

[Irfan Baloch]

For Engine, I do not see an Option from West:
French, Safran --> Susceptible to Pressure, in bed with Indians. Very slim chance if any that they will sell to Pakistan.
UK RR --> Better chance then France to sell, however can cave under US pressure more then the Frenchies.
Sweden: Copy of US Engine or mostly US made parts.

Radar / Avionics: Italian ? very likely to sell to Pakistan, PAF, PN, PA, however small chance of releasing the source code to incorporate Chinese or Local Munition. Now you have to create separate Munition sources for their Avionics (Radar. ) Swedish ? fickle as they crave for bigger slice from India, they are like "Hanging on the promises in songs of yesterday,' waiting for a carrot that is taking forever to fall in their lap and likely will keep on waiting.

If you would prefer Western, then just go for the US, least you know if you will be sanctioned or not. More then likely you will be sanctioned sometime in future and that is just given and you don't have to wait to hear if the supplier is going to cave under US pressure or not.

So in a nut shell, JF-17 will stay with the Ruskie Engine, Chinese Avionics, Chinese and Pakistani Munitions. Perhaps one day in future the Avionics will be part Pakistani if not all and same case for the munition.

I agree with your prudent analysis

 

[mshan44]

 

[Shabi1]

in the process of steering the discussion back to the subject matter I started looking up what engine powered the Gripen originally and it was a GE404 based Volvo RM12 engine with almost same performance like the RD 93. knowing Western European technology to be more reliable due to better engineering and performance we will always flirt with the possibility of equipping JF-17 with the western technology if it brings performance and reliability improvements and looking at Sweden makes sense if the components (engines, radars, weapons etc) are without any sanctions prone elements

The Volvo RM-12 is basically a highly modified GE404 assembled in Sweden. Major components are of US origin making any sale to a project where China is involved unlikely. So not an option that can be considered at any point for JF-17. RR EJ-200 has more likely hood of integration if chosen by a client as it has been stated that JF-17 has the ability to take alternate engines but PAF chose to stick with RD-93 variants.

Volvo RM12 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[MastanKhan]

how much is the CAP loiter time with this configuration? considering efficient use of fuel

Hi,

If it is from 1 1/2 hrs to 3 1/2 hrs would that be okay.

 

[maverick1977]

Engine/Specifications	RD-93	RM-12
Length	4.229 m	4.04 m
Diameter	1.04 m	0.889 m
Weight	1055 kg	1054 kg
Military thrust	50 kN	54 kN
Wet thrust	81.3 kN	80.5 kN

Since there is a noticeable difference in dimensions ie length and diameter of both engines, therefore structural change may be required to house the engine.

Dry thrust is more in RM-12, however wet thrust is slightly less.

PAF may consider this engine as an option for JF-17 provided, the same is available without any hitches and restrictions.

There was some rumor about testing an European engine on JF-17, but I was unable to verify it.

Is there a possibility to get a GE404 class engine, with 70KN of dry thrust and 120KN of wet trust for JF17 ?

 

[Marker]

Is there a possibility to get a GE404 class engine, with 70KN of dry thrust and 120KN of wet trust for JF17 ?

PAF F-16s have Pratt & Whitney F-100 engine which closely meet the specifications you mentioned.

Engine/Specifications	RD-93	F-100-PW-220	F-100-PW-229
Length	4.229 m	4.9 m	4.9 m
Diameter	1.04 m	0.88 m	0.88 m
Weight	1055 kg	1467 kg	1737 kg
Military thrust	50 kN	64.9 kN	79 kN
Wet thrust	81.3 kN	105.7 kN	129.7 kN

Structural change will be required to house the new engine.

However, availability depends on the geopolitical relationship between Pakistan and US.

 

[ziaulislam]

For Engine, I do not see an Option from West:
French, Safran --> Susceptible to Pressure, in bed with Indians. Very slim chance if any that they will sell to Pakistan.
UK RR --> Better chance then France to sell, however can cave under US pressure more then the Frenchies.
Sweden: Copy of US Engine or mostly US made parts.

Radar / Avionics: Italian ? very likely to sell to Pakistan, PAF, PN, PA, however small chance of releasing the source code to incorporate Chinese or Local Munition. Now you have to create separate Munition sources for their Avionics (Radar. ) Swedish ? fickle as they crave for bigger slice from India, they are like "Hanging on the promises in songs of yesterday,' waiting for a carrot that is taking forever to fall in their lap and likely will keep on waiting.

If you would prefer Western, then just go for the US, least you know if you will be sanctioned or not. More then likely you will be sanctioned sometime in future and that is just given and you don't have to wait to hear if the supplier is going to cave under US pressure or not.

So in a nut shell, JF-17 will stay with the Ruskie Engine, Chinese Avionics, Chinese and Pakistani Munitions. Perhaps one day in future the Avionics will be part Pakistani if not all and same case for the munition.

exactly a apart from italy, turks and may be Britain ..any western procurement will buckle under India and USA pressure

better procure directly from USA, china and invest on your own R&D while get parts sub parts from italy, turkey

this also tells us that we shouldnt be under the impression then india and china will forever be enemies..if that changes we will be in trouble

 

[maverick1977]

PAF F-16s have Pratt & Whitney F-100 engine which closely meet the specifications you mentioned.

Engine/Specifications	RD-93	F-100-PW-220	F-100-PW-229
Length	4.229 m	4.9 m	4.9 m
Diameter	1.04 m	0.88 m	0.88 m
Weight	1055 kg	1467 kg	1737 kg
Military thrust	50 kN	64.9 kN	79 kN
Wet thrust	81.3 kN	105.7 kN	129.7 kN

Structural change will be required to house the new engine.

However, availability depends on the geopolitical relationship between Pakistan and US.

I am assuming China doesnt have 229 and 220 class PW engines with similar specs.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

I am assuming China doesnt have 229 and 220 class PW engines with similar specs.

But they have WS-10 its in a same class of P&W or GE engines currently fitted on F-16, but i don't thinks so its viable to Install high thrust class engines in JFT, because if you want to install WS-10 in JFT you should redesign whole JFT because Center of gravity/Center of pressure changes if if you want to install high thrust class engines, JFT need Medium class engines like F-414/RD-93 MA or Chinese up coming WS-19 with a thrust range of 20,000 to 22,000 lbs