JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Sine Nomine]

Sir, with all due respect, I am sure you probably know just as much aviation as I do. But an engine having more maintenance needs doesn't mean that "thousands" can't be air-born. After all, this was Russia's real first attempt to produce a Western Pratt Whitney type engineered system with certain by passed and compact combustion chambers in place.

As I am sure you know, the maintenance, whether a lot or little, is done on a rotational schedule. No country decides to put 75 or 100% of their aircraft into maintenance yards. So thousands can be air-born whether the engine requires more or less maintenance. Thanks

Certainly engine maintenance is scheduled and resources taking process but MBTO of RD 33 has improved alot as compared to first engine.PAF has taken some serious considerations while dealing it,which earned us zero engine failure till now.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Certainly engine maintenance is scheduled and resources taking process but MBTO of RD 33 has improved alot as compared to first engine.PAF has taken some serious considerations while dealing it,which earned us zero engine failure till now.

Sir, I said this in my first post. That the RD-93 version the Chinese bought per the PAF's requirements, came in with tweaks to increase MTBF and MTBO. The PAF told the Chinese the same thing the Malaysians told the Russians, that their requirements were 1.4* the MTBF vs. what it had been. So from the beginning, the PAF like the Malaysians, got a better engine. And I wouldn't say "zero" engine failures, there have been two JFTs crashed, primarily due to engine failures. But regardless, the RD-93 in PAF's possession is a different RD-93 that they put on Mig-29's initially over two decades ago. RD-93 MA, even though still an RD family engine, masks a lot of characteristics from Pratt & Whitney engines and should be a much better choice going forward for the PAF.

 

[Basel]

why dont you just put him in your naughty (ignore) list and call it day with him?
same applies to you too @MastanKhan

If you compare RD-93 with EJ200 for JFT which one is better and why PAF should adopt it and what they customize for their requirements?

 

[Blue Marlin]

If you compare RD-93 with EJ200 for JFT which one is better and why PAF should adopt it and what they customize for their requirements?

rd93 cause its already on the jf-17
if it aint broke dont fix it

 

[DJ_Viper]

If you compare RD-93 with EJ200 for JFT which one is better and why PAF should adopt it and what they customize for their requirements?

EJ200 is a much superior engine build on much superior tech Sir. The RD-93 at its base technology was built similar to the P&W F-100 engines from the 70's, the Russians decided to follow a similar engineering process through by passing additional combustion channels and kept a two step burn and thrust process than how the Russian engines used to work. Resulting in creating a longer MBTF (still inferior to top line Western engines but much better than previous Russian engines). But EJ-2000 fully digital and top of the line engine with much efficient fuel production.

 

[Thorough Pro]

What is your proof for this glaring statement?

Sir, I said this in my first post. That the RD-93 version the Chinese bought per the PAF's requirements, came in with tweaks to increase MTBF and MTBO. The PAF told the Chinese the same thing the Malaysians told the Russians, that their requirements were 1.4* the MTBF vs. what it had been. So from the beginning, the PAF like the Malaysians, got a better engine. And I wouldn't say "zero" engine failures, there have been two JFTs crashed, primarily due to engine failures. But regardless, the RD-93 in PAF's possession is a different RD-93 that they put on Mig-29's initially over two decades ago. RD-93 MA, even though still an RD family engine, masks a lot of characteristics from Pratt & Whitney engines and should be a much better choice going forward for the PAF.

 

[DJ_Viper]

What is your proof for this glaring statement?

Sir, what is the proof that God exists? or there is no Gravity anywhere in the Space? For all we know, there may be another Universe keeping our universe together due to their Gravitational pull. Well to answer these questions, you take your belief system, supported by scientific evidence and some prior facts and historical knowledge.

If you noticed, the few senior members on here from the PAF didn't counter my statement like you have. Why? Because they probably know it too. It was also published in news a while ago on one of the aircraft as I heard it and then saw similar content on a few Chinese sites too. And by the way, out of 100-150 aircraft running the most sorties every day and majority of CAPS and test flights (thousands of flying hours), a couple crashing is not really a big deal.

That means, on a 100% production (if you build 100 jets), your defect rate is 2%, if you've built and tested more than 100 jets, then your defect rate drops. I don't know if you understand Six Sigma (99.9% defect free products, processes and operations, google it to understand it). having a 1.5% defect rate is actually pretty impressive, specially with thousands of flying hours, rigorous stress you put on the aircraft's air-frame, avionics, engine, etc. Thanks

 

[The SC]

The Block II variant is expected to be followed by the Block III, which might feature a more powerful engine (WS-13B?), a new AESA radar developed by NETRI/14th Institute(KLJ-7A, range 170km, track 15, engage 4), IRST, HMD, full authority digital FBW and additional types of weapons. A tandem-seat trainer version (JF-17B) was first unveiled at the 2013 Paris Airshow by CATIC, whichfeatures an IFR probe. JF-17B is expected to fly by the end of 2016.

And some wild weasel technologies: SEAD

Current


An F-16CJ of the 20th Fighter Wing.
A change in aircraft design theory to stress versatile multi-role aircraft meant that the F-4G was the last aircraft in the USAF inventory specifically outfitted for the SEAD role. The Wild Weasel mission is now assigned to the F-16 Fighting Falcon, using the Block 50 and Block 52, with production beginning in 1991. The single-seat Block 50/52 F-16C is specifically tasked with this mission. The pilot now performs both the role of flying the airplane and targeting and employing against ground threats. Other aircraft, while capable of taking out anti-air emplacements, are typically tasked with other primary missions; the A-10 Thunderbolt II "Warthog", primarily tasked with CAS missions, lacks the avionics to perform a true SEAD mission in its original "A" variant, and the newer "C" variant, with conversions beginning in 2005, has yet to meet an enemy force possessing significant air defenses beyond man-portable SAMs. The F-15E, possessing advanced air-to-ground avionics but also high speed and long range, is typically tasked with "deep strike" missions, which can include SAM installations but typically focuses on high-value targets such as enemy command & control, infrastructure and production.

The Tornado ECR is currently the only aircraft dedicated to SEAD missions and is operated by the German Air Force and Italian Air Force. The Royal Air Force uses the IDS variant to conduct similar missions, though they are mainly utilised in the interdiction role.

The F-35 Lightning II is slated to gradually replace these aircraft for various air-to-ground roles, including SEAD, beginning with its introduction in 2016. Its stealth capabilities promise a significant increase in effectiveness against air-defense radars, though to maintain its lowest radar signature, its payload capacity would be limited to the internal weapons bays, reducing the number of missile site attacks per sortie. However, it can carry more or larger air to ground weapons internally than even the F-22 and is more advanced in a ground attack capacity, potentially making it the best manned aircraft for destroying sophisticated enemy air defenses.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wild_Weasel

 

[Thorough Pro]

why are you going on different tangent, what is the proof that the two crashes were caused by engine failure?

Sir, what is the proof that God exists? or there is no Gravity anywhere in the Space? For all we know, there may be another Universe keeping our universe together due to their Gravitational pull. Well to answer these questions, you take your belief system, supported by scientific evidence and some prior facts and historical knowledge.

If you noticed, the few senior members on here from the PAF didn't counter my statement like you have. Why? Because they probably know it too. It was also published in news a while ago on one of the aircraft as I heard it and then saw similar content on a few Chinese sites too. And by the way, out of 100-150 aircraft running the most sorties every day and majority of CAPS and test flights (thousands of flying hours), a couple crashing is not really a big deal.

That means, on a 100% production (if you build 100 jets), your defect rate is 2%, if you've built and tested more than 100 jets, then your defect rate drops. I don't know if you understand Six Sigma (99.9% defect free products, processes and operations, google it to understand it). having a 1.5% defect rate is actually pretty impressive, specially with thousands of flying hours, rigorous stress you put on the aircraft's air-frame, avionics, engine, etc. Thanks

 

[nomi007]

 

[Windjammer]

 

[volatile]

Smokey at its best

 

[PakEye]

View attachment 349960

smok and difference of nose cone look like JFT-Block-I i think old photo.

 

[araz]

View attachment 349960

Smokey at its best

Smoke can bee seen in certain environments much more than in others. If you look at the previous air shows in Zuhai there will be smoke as well.
A

 

[volatile]

Smoke can bee seen in certain environments much more than in others. If you look at the previous air shows in Zuhai there will be smoke as well.
A

Yes i agree ,Does it impact on overall characteristic of jet means more smokey means more chances of getting locked down or subject to SAM`s .
IMO as an Engineer i believe the engine is burning too much unburnt fuel or consuming Lubrication during certain performances .It will be interesting to know if we know something about fuel mix for JF17 as i imagine higher Octane numbers can solve some of the problem also ECU unit needs tune up/ settings at certain throttle modes . Bear with my ignorance for Jet Engines but still it depends upon compression and basic rule for ignition remains .Fuel /Air /Ignition .