JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Cookie Monster]

the way they tried to prove that f-16 was shot is full of lies. first they talked about some serial no written by a marker on a piece of the wreckage and tried to prove it as f-16 which later on proved to be a lie. then they talked about an engine part of the wreckage but their lie was busted by their own engineers on media.the pix of the madrassh they showed were either old or photoshopped. so in a nutshell whatever indian media claims about the victories of their military have been proven as untrue.

Yes that's the point I'm trying to make that Indian media can't be trusted as a reliable source of info.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Deino you are going to unconfirm what a former air chief has already confirmed? Please tell me which intelligence agency you are working for

PAF a professional Air Force with its track record is going to give two of its highest honours and awards to two pilots based on lies?

They don’t have enough hero’s that now they will lie to make fake ones?

Former air chief has stated the facts if you don’t think he’s credible then don’t believe anything you read again

Deino’s approach is correct. We need further confirmation for the additional IAF fighters shot down. That doesn’t mean you have to stop believing Pakistani sources, both in the open domain or confidential, but you shouldn’t criticize him or take umbrage at his evidence based approach.

 

[aziqbal]

You simply cannot take a evidence approach in this situatuon we are not following military developments

This is war time incidents and governments cover up

Years down the line you can still be waiting for evidence based approach

But if someone wants to it’s up to then

 

[PakEye]

Indian media also says PAF F16 was shot down and a whole bunch of other lies. Why are u selectively believing some of what they say and not other things? Either u take Indian media as a credible source of info or u don't.

https://www.facebook.com/

 

[aftab_s81]

When, in your point of view, we will have zero dependence on F-16s? I was reading an article on Hushkit, the writer opined that performance of JF-17 is highly inflated by Pakistanis. I think we need Project Azm to counter Indian Rafale?
@messiach @MastanKhan
Reference to the said article:
https://hushkit.net/2019/03/16/2019...-compared-to-its-peers-and-potential-threats/

 

[ahtan_china]

Honestly in return, and who are you that you believe everything without any doubts? Or are facts irrelevant as long as the news fits your opinion?

Me too I have some sort of favour, but overall I'm interested in the truth and facts. So if there is a Su-30MKI downed it is fine but I believe it only with confirmation. In the same way I would regret a downed F-16, but I believe Indians claims also only after proof.
And until this is not given, both claims are nothing but unconfirmed claims.

I find it strange that most often the same who deny any IAF claims are the same who believe everything the PAF reports and vice versa. At least for me everything without proper proof remains unconfirmed.

At this sensitive moment, I believe CHN, PAK and IND government know the truth. But they don't want to let us know the truth. That's all. The deal is made under table.

 

[Deino]

You are going to unconfirm what a former air chief has already confirmed? Please tell me which intelligence agency you are working for PAF a professional Air Force with its track record is going to give two of its highest honours and awards to two pilots based on lies?
They don’t have enough hero’s that now they will lie to make fake ones?
Former air chief has stated the facts if you don’t think he’s credible then don’t believe anything you read again

Indeed I do, I accuse both sides - especially in the social media, local media but also higher ups - of the most severe false agitation, lying and propaganda and at least I have strong reservations on anything that was said and is reported by both sides as long it is not confirmed by facts. I'm not sure how I would act in case my country would be involved, but as an strictly external observer this conflict again proved in so many examples by both sides, the truth is always the first victim of war.

Therefore I do not know and regardless who confirmed what in that war, as long as there is no physical proof it remains unconfirmed for me; I studied nature since - in fact Chemistry - and I only believe in facts. Not sure what's your profession, but it seems to be not a scientific one at least in your alleged unbias to this conflict.

And if you always believe what high ranking officers say, your surely also agree that the IAF downed a PAF fighter? There are so many media reports including official IAF statements, rewards to the returned pilot and official acclamation that CONFIRMED that kill. So if you would be unbiased, this kill is also confirmed?

You simply cannot take a evidence approach in this situatuon we are not following military developments
This is war time incidents and governments cover up
Years down the line you can still be waiting for evidence based approach
But if someone wants to it’s up to then

Just only one strong disagreement: in such a case, You can ONLY follow an "evidence approach in this situation" since everything else is opening all doors for propaganda and fake report.

Just take a look at several forums - and if You like I can point to certain post - in which fan-boys deliver "direct proof" for example by that video of a JF-17 chasing and then downing a MKI, the same with the faked PL-15 images ... they were mocking and having fun, but right after it became clear they were deliberately ignoring the facts.

IMO this tells much more about a person and its true intention than about another person, who has reservations and prefers to wait for facts.

Nice evening.

 

[aziqbal]

A diplomatic reply Deino and I respect that you have your view and me mine

I believe Mig21 and Su30 MKI was downed by 2 BVR missiles by 2 JF17 as confirmed by former Air Force chief

Btw I am Asif Iqbal from SDF and people know I have a PhD in biophysical applications in moleculer biology, very much scientific

 

[ghazi768]

Indeed I do, I accuse both sides - especially in the social media, local media but also higher ups - of the most severe false agitation, lying and propaganda and at least I have strong reservations on anything that was said and is reported by both sides as long it is not confirmed by facts. I'm not sure how I would act in case my country would be involved, but as an strictly external observer this conflict again proved in so many examples by both sides, the truth is always the first victim of war.

Therefore I do not know and regardless who confirmed what in that war, as long as there is no physical proof it remains unconfirmed for me; I studied nature since - in fact Chemistry - and I only believe in facts. Not sure what's your profession, but it seems to be not a scientific one at least in your alleged unbias to this conflict.

And if you always believe what high ranking officers say, your surely also agree that the IAF downed a PAF fighter? There are so many media reports including official IAF statements, rewards to the returned pilot and official acclamation that CONFIRMED that kill. So if you would be unbiased, this kill is also confirmed?




Just only one strong disagreement: in such a case, You can ONLY follow an "evidence approach in this situation" since everything else is opening all doors for propaganda and fake report.

Just take a look at several forums - and if You like I can point to certain post - in which fan-boys deliver "direct proof" for example by that video of a JF-17 chasing and then downing a MKI, the same with the faked PL-15 images ... they were mocking and having fun, but right after it became clear they were deliberately ignoring the facts.

IMO this tells much more about a person and its true intention than about another person, who has reservations and prefers to wait for facts.

Nice evening.

I agree with you, the final proof if one party does not accede to other parties claim is a wreckage.

Making claims and counter claims have gone for as long as air battles have taken place so misinformation and confusion is part of the game. But I think their is enough eye witness reports and videos that an independent observer can come to conclusion that a second jet got hit as well. Now to which party that belongs is open to debate and controversy..

 

[Deino]

A diplomatic reply Deino and I respect that you have your view and me mine

I believe Mig21 and Su30 MKI was downed by 2 BVR missiles by 2 JF17 as confirmed by former Air Force chief

Btw I am Asif Iqbal from SDF and people know I have a PhD in biophysical applications in moleculer biology, very much scientific

Thanks a lot for that honest reply. Very much appreciated.

Best,
Deino

 

[CriticalThought]

Indeed I do, I accuse both sides - especially in the social media, local media but also higher ups - of the most severe false agitation, lying and propaganda and at least I have strong reservations on anything that was said and is reported by both sides as long it is not confirmed by facts. I'm not sure how I would act in case my country would be involved, but as an strictly external observer this conflict again proved in so many examples by both sides, the truth is always the first victim of war.

Therefore I do not know and regardless who confirmed what in that war, as long as there is no physical proof it remains unconfirmed for me; I studied nature since - in fact Chemistry - and I only believe in facts. Not sure what's your profession, but it seems to be not a scientific one at least in your alleged unbias to this conflict.

And if you always believe what high ranking officers say, your surely also agree that the IAF downed a PAF fighter? There are so many media reports including official IAF statements, rewards to the returned pilot and official acclamation that CONFIRMED that kill. So if you would be unbiased, this kill is also confirmed?




Just only one strong disagreement: in such a case, You can ONLY follow an "evidence approach in this situation" since everything else is opening all doors for propaganda and fake report.

Just take a look at several forums - and if You like I can point to certain post - in which fan-boys deliver "direct proof" for example by that video of a JF-17 chasing and then downing a MKI, the same with the faked PL-15 images ... they were mocking and having fun, but right after it became clear they were deliberately ignoring the facts.

IMO this tells much more about a person and its true intention than about another person, who has reservations and prefers to wait for facts.

Nice evening.

You should post that in the talk section of Wikipedia's JF-17 page.

 

[MastanKhan]

When, in your point of view, we will have zero dependence on F-16s? I was reading an article on Hushkit, the writer opined that performance of JF-17 is highly inflated by Pakistanis. I think we need Project Azm to counter Indian Rafale?
@messiach @MastanKhan
Reference to the said article:
https://hushkit.net/2019/03/16/2019...-compared-to-its-peers-and-potential-threats/

Hi,

Thank you for the tag---. The writer is living in the same time zone as many an indian posters and many a pakistani posters were living in---.

This is a first in fighter aircraft combat of two modern air forces pitching 4th gen air craft against each other---but there is one difference that we found out---.

The battle is not between just TWO opposing aircraft---but against two Air Battle Air Combat Systems---.

That writer was also as lost as anyone else could have been about the origin of the JF17---if AM Latif had not cleared it---there was still argument about its birth DNA---.

If the JF17 was a nothing---the IAF would not have stopped---.

You cannot stop dogs from barking---these guys are paid to bark from the fighter aircraft producing nations---to put this aircraft down as much as they can---.

Deino’s approach is correct. We need further confirmation for the additional IAF fighters shot down. That doesn’t mean you have to stop believing Pakistani sources, both in the open domain or confidential, but you shouldn’t criticize him or take umbrage at his evidence based approach.

A diplomatic reply Deino and I respect that you have your view and me mine

I believe Mig21 and Su30 MKI was downed by 2 BVR missiles by 2 JF17 as confirmed by former Air Force chief

Btw I am Asif Iqbal from SDF and people know I have a PhD in biophysical applications in moleculer biology, very much scientific

Hi,

The truth had come out in the first address of Gen Ghafoor---but when the identity of the pilot became known to be israeli ( per Zafar Hilali )---a newer version of truth came out---.

So---till that issue is not resolved---it will stay in the gray zone---.

 

[BATMAN]

Hi,

The truth had come out in the first address of Gen Ghafoor---but when the identity of the pilot became known to be israeli ( per Zafar Hilali )---a newer version of truth came out---.

So---till that issue is not resolved---it will stay in the gray zone---.

I don't find any logic for Israelis to jump in Su-30 and chase Pakistani pilots into Pak airspace just like a cowboy.
As far Zafar Hilali is concerned, i also have an opinion he tend to over sensationalize.
I actually never bothered to listen him.

 

[Vortex]

I don't find any logic for Israelis to jump in Su-30 and chase Pakistani pilots into Pak airspace just like a cowboy.
As far Zafar Hilali is concerned, i also have an opinion he tend to over sensationalize.
I actually never bothered to listen him.

Maybe it was only a weapons system officer / copilot because indians don’t know how to use spice... to hot for them ?

 

[Adam WANG SHANGHAI MEGA]

Pakistani Air Force JF-17 fighter successfully tested the Takbir satellite-guided bomb
2019-03-18 06:00:46
https://www.toutiao.com/a6669483113229320716/
Recently, the Pakistan Air Force announced the first successful test of the JF-17 "Thunderbolt" fighter aircraft video and video data of the Takbir satellite-guided bomb. This means that the JF-17 "Thunderbolt" fighter aircraft will have a new range of long-range precision strike capability.

According to Pakistani domestic media reports, Takbir is an advanced satellite-guided bomb independently developed by the country, with a projection weight of about 250 kg, which is at the same level as the US JDAM GBU-38 (V) series of satellite-guided bombs. However, the Takbir satellite-guided bomb is equipped with a collapsible hang glider, so its range can reach 80-100 km, while the US JDAM series of satellite-guided bombs without an extended-range hang glider usually has a range of 28 km. This means that after the JF-17 "Thunderbolt" aircraft is equipped with the Takbir satellite-guided bomb, it can accurately strike the important ground targets of the Indian Army beyond the range of the Indian medium-range air defense missile system. Its tactical deterrence is self-evident. .

The Takbir satellite-guided bomb was first publicly released at the 2014 Karachi International Defence Exhibition in Pakistan. Although Pakistan claims that this type of guided bomb is self-developed, its shape and design layout are very similar to those of the FT-2 satellite-guided bomb developed by China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation. Therefore, the outside world speculated that the Takbir satellite-guided bomb should be the FT-2 satellite-guided bomb that China Aerospace Science and Technology Corporation transferred to Pakistan for technology production. Moreover, after the realization of domestic assembly production, Pakistan also pushed the Takbir satellite-guided bomb to the international market as one of the main supporting weapons for the JF-17 "Thunderbolt" fighter.

The CEP accuracy of the FT-2 satellite-guided bomb is 15 to 20 meters, and the Takbir satellite-guided bomb should be roughly equivalent. This data is still a certain gap compared with the US JDAM series satellite-guided bomb (CEP accuracy can reach 7 meters). However, the biggest advantage of Pakistan's introduction of FT-2 satellite-guided bomb technology is that it can get rid of its dependence on the US GPS global positioning system and switch to the Chinese "Beidou" global positioning system. In the future, if possible, Pakistan also hopes to introduce the China Aerospace Science and Technology Group's FT-6A guided bomb technology to comprehensively improve the performance of the Takbir satellite-guided bomb. Especially after the semi-active laser seeker is installed in the head, the accuracy of the CEP accuracy of the Takbir satellite-guided bomb will be less than 5 meters, and the damage effect on the target will be doubled.

From the current JF-17 "Thunderbolt" aircraft mounting situation, only one Tabbir satellite-guided bomb can be mounted on the middle pylons on both sides of the wing. The wingtip pylons are still mounted with two PL-5Es. The combat air-to-air missiles are used for self-defense, while the belly and wing inner pylons also need to be equipped with three auxiliary fuel tanks to ensure the necessary combat radius. Therefore, the relatively limited mounting capacity of the JF-17 "Thunderbolt" fighter is also an important factor that restricts its combat effectiveness. If the Pakistan Air Force can integrate the Takbir satellite-guided bomb on the F-16 with the help of Chinese military companies, its long-range offensive capability will undoubtedly be more comprehensive.

https://www.toutiao.com/a6669483113229320716/

巴基斯坦空军JF-17战机成功试射Takbir卫星制导炸弹 对印远程精确打击能力再获提升
原创 现代兵器杂志 2019-03-18 06:00:46
https://www.toutiao.com/a6669483113229320716/
近日，巴基斯坦空军公布了JF-17“雷电”战机首次成功试射Takbir卫星制导炸弹的视频和图片资料。这意味着JF-17“雷电”战机这款巴基斯坦空军主力装备又将具备一种全新的远程精确打击能力。

根据巴基斯坦国内媒体报道，Takbir是一种由该国自主研发的先进卫星制导炸弹，投射重量为250公斤左右，与美国JDAM GBU-38（V）系列卫星制导炸弹属于同一级别。不过，Takbir卫星制导炸弹加装了可折叠的滑翔翼，因此其射程可达80～100公里，而未加装增程滑翔翼的美国JDAM系列卫星制导炸弹的射程一般为28公里。这意味着JF-17“雷电”战机挂载Takbir卫星制导炸弹后，能够在印度中程防空导弹系统的射程之外，对印军的重要地面目标实施精确打击，其战术威慑力不言而喻。

Takbir卫星制导炸弹首次对外公开是在2014年巴基斯坦卡拉奇国际防务展上。虽然巴基斯坦国内声称该型制导炸弹为自主研发，事实上，其外形以及设计布局与中国航天科技集团研制的FT-2卫星制导炸弹非常相似。所以，外界据此推测，Takbir卫星制导炸弹应该就是中国航天科技集团向巴基斯坦转让技术生产的FT-2卫星制导炸弹。而且，在实现国产组装生产之后，巴基斯坦也将Takbir卫星制导炸弹推向了国际市场，作为JF-17“雷电”战机的主要配套武器之一。

FT-2卫星制导炸弹的CEP精度为15～20米，Takbir卫星制导炸弹应该也大致相当，这一数据与美国JDAM系列卫星制导炸弹相比还是有一定的差距（CEP精度可达7米）。不过，巴基斯坦引进FT-2卫星制导炸弹技术的最大优势在于可以摆脱对于美国GPS全球定位系统的依赖，转而采用中国“北斗”全球定位系统。将来如果有可能，巴基斯坦还希望引进中国航天科技集团的FT-6A制导炸弹技术，全面提升Takbir卫星制导炸弹的性能。特别是在头部加装半主动激光导引头以后，Takbir卫星制导炸弹的CEP精度将达到5米以内，对目标的毁伤效果将会成倍提高。

从目前JF-17“雷电”战机的挂载情况来看，只能在机翼两侧的中间挂架各挂载1枚Takbir卫星制导炸弹，翼尖挂架依然挂载2枚PL-5E近距格斗空空导弹用于自卫，而机腹和机翼内侧挂架还需要挂载3具副油箱以保证必要的作战半径。所以，JF-17“雷电”战机相对有限的挂载能力也是制约其战斗力提升的重要因素。如果巴基斯坦空军能够在中国军工企业的帮助下，将Takbir卫星制导炸弹整合在F-16战机上，其远程进攻能力毫无疑问将获得更为全面的提升。这也是巴基斯坦空军在无力采购一款更大、更先进的全新战机的情况下唯一的选择。

https://www.toutiao.com/a6669483113229320716/