JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[CriticalThought]

It won't be when fighters are moving under AWACS cover and heavy ES from own assets.

That is only one scenario. Now imagine a CAP tasked with ID'ing an unknown aircraft. You need to get close to escort any unwanted crafts out of your skies. What if you get engaged at WVR range in this scenario? What if yout BVRs do miss and the enemy closes in on you? Let's consider all of MastanKhan's sore points. You don't need Mach 2 speed, so you won't be able to run away. You don't need T/W and agility, so you won't be able to fight. You don't need cannons so you can't even fire. You are a sitting duck.

 

[Sine Nomine]

That is only one scenario. Now imagine a CAP tasked with ID'ing an unknown aircraft. You need to get close to escort any unwanted crafts out of your skies. What if you get engaged at WVR range in this scenario? What if yout BVRs do miss and the enemy closes in on you? Let's consider all of MastanKhan's sore points. You don't need Mach 2 speed, so you won't be able to run away. You don't need T/W and agility, so you won't be able to fight. You don't need cannons so you can't even fire. You are a sitting duck.

What matters more a CAP or a pre-planned mission?

 

[PakEye]

View attachment 546016

Wow war prooven JF-17 Thunder (mki killer)
One SU-30mki
&
One Mig-21Bison

 

[Deino]

Wow war prooven JF-17 Thunder (mki killer)
One SU-30mki
&
One Mig-21Bison

Again ... NOTHING on the MKI is proven!

 

[messiach]

Beyond sd10a which was a co-produce, all AAMs will be endogenous effort.

Any timeline for indigenous solution?

 

[Nasr]

I would politely caution fellow Pakistanis to be refrain from claiming Su-30MKi kill by JF-17 Thunder. There has no claim made by Pakistan Air Force, officially and as such we ought to leave the matter as is. Somewhere down the line, a few years from now, the truth will come out, and when it does, we can be enlightened by it.

 

[The Eagle]

Hi,

There was NO shock in its capability---. The shock was only for those who did not know---.

Indeed.

I stated about 10 years ago about Better quality EW package and a better missile will win---.

Engine horsepower---climbing up like having an eternal hardon is only good for the shows and not in actual combat---.

Engine producing smoke---makes no difference---20 k lbs thrust or 30 k lbs thrust---it all depends on how quickly the thrust is available to make the difference---.

Top speed of over 1200 mph is for show---it is of no function in the every day combat

Planners had it coming even 15 years or so before... Today's Thunder is not an over night product. Smoke doesn't matter except that people with idea of driving on road, had the pollution concern. Combatants does know well what & how much power + speed is required beside available options. We cannot ignore the fact of economy constraints along with few other reasons.

Air Marshall Latif was no ordinary program director---. He was one of the most 'concerned about' pakistani officer by the the americans----they never allowed him to become the air chief---otherwise---the Paf would have been at a totally different pleteau---and the americans would not allow that to happen.

Sorry to say but same ordinary lines w.r.t. blames. Shahid Latif did what he could & promotion, is something totally different than what is being told to commoners. Time to let it go.

Only if the JF17 was 25% larger in size---there were so many goodies that could have been installed on it---that it would have wreaked havoc on the enemy---and would have been second to none other than the 5th gen aircraft---.

The size it flew with, is the targeted goal and achieved accordingly. Was, should have been, if it could have been are not the concern. Thunder in its current form was stated from the day one as per its role & our need. Bigger size may not be Thunder anymore rather a whole new product. Not the whole team is incompetent. If I don't know much of the things, it doesn't mean that institute is not capable.

The point to learn over here is that the ---young pakistani kids should never brag about the ability of war horses before them going into combat---.

Exactly and even, the small size horse did the best. Isn't it?

Always make your product look worst that what it is---never give out the abilities of your primary war machines---.

That is exactly being done in this case as well. Not every plan or reason or goals are ever shared. Thunder in its current form, size, undisclosed goodies and other capabilities are kept away from adversary unless, a head on during clash.

 

[PakEye]

Again ... NOTHING on the MKI is proven!

Pl. Saw my quoted post in which a badge.
But
I read in a post that IAF not sent MIG-21Bison alone without SU-30MKI cover

 

[PakEye]

Again ... NOTHING on the MKI is proven!

 

[Thorough Pro]

Some people don't realize that air battles have changed. There would still be WVR knife fights but less than BVR fights. Anyone who survives a BVR high tails it, doesn't come looking for more. The proof is in MKI pilot who allegedly dodged 4 AAMRAMS and ran away to safety.

If he was so skill full to dodge 4 BVR's he should have gained a lot of confidence to hunt a smoke producing factory JF17. But he did not.

Hi,

Paf never displays un-necessary weapons---and air to air missiles---hardly ever---.



Hi,

There was NO shock in its capability---. The shock was only for those who did not know---.

I stated about 10 years ago about Better quality EW package and a better missile will win---.

Engine horsepower---climbing up like having an eternal hardon is only good for the shows and not in actual combat---.

Engine producing smoke---makes no difference---20 k lbs thrust or 30 k lbs thrust---it all depends on how quickly the thrust is available to make the difference---.

Top speed of over 1200 mph is for show---it is of no function in the every day combat

There are certain thing in the JF17 that cannot be disclosed---even amongst the friends---.

Air Marshall Latif was no ordinary program director---. He was one of the most 'concerned about' pakistani officer by the the americans----they never allowed him to become the air chief---otherwise---the Paf would have been at a totally different pleteau---and the americans would not allow that to happen.

Only if the JF17 was 25% larger in size---there were so many goodies that could have been installed on it---that it would have wreaked havoc on the enemy---and would have been second to none other than the 5th gen aircraft---.

The point to learn over here is that the ---young pakistani kids should never brag about the ability of war horses before them going into combat---.

Always make your product look worst that what it is---never give out the abilities of your primary war machines---.

 

[Mrc]

The proof is in MKI pilot who allegedly dodged 4 AAMRAMS and ran away to safety.

All 4 hit some thing b it an aircraft or a heli

 

[Thorough Pro]

I don't think so, he just followed the Indian military tradition of lying to become a fake hero. He was only locked without firing any let alone 4 BVR's to keep away from the engagement zone and they succeeded. He just made himself a hero by lying. If his ELTA was so good to jam/dodge 4 BVR's, why did he ran away? Once you know you have successfully jammed the most potent weapon of the enemy, you don't just run away, you get more confident and bold and fight and shoot down the opponent. But what did he do? What Indians do best, bark and run away and then bark again from the distance.

All 4 hit some thing b it an aircraft or a heli

 

[MastanKhan]

What matters more a CAP or a pre-planned mission?

Hi,

CAP is more important---that is where you are trained and programmed to taking an existing situation---assess---analyze and react on the run---.

Because if you don't---you are in deep sh-it---.

That is what tells the enemy that you are awake and you are alive---and when you strike at an ingressing enemy during CAP---you made your position very clear---.

Letting them get away---declared that you had weaknesses---that you were indecisive---you were not prepared in advance to react---you felt insecure as how to react---basically---you had not prepared yourself for the UNEXPECTED.

Indeed.





Planners had it coming even 15 years or so before... Today's Thunder is not an over night product. Smoke doesn't matter except that people with idea of driving on road, had the pollution concern. Combatants does know well what & how much power + speed is required beside available options. We cannot ignore the fact of economy constraints along with few other reasons.




Sorry to say but same ordinary lines w.r.t. blames. Shahid Latif did what he could & promotion, is something totally different than what is being told to commoners. Time to let it go.




The size it flew with, is the targeted goal and achieved accordingly. Was, should have been, if it could have been are not the concern. Thunder in its current form was stated from the day one as per its role & our need. Bigger size may not be Thunder anymore rather a whole new product. Not the whole team is incompetent. If I don't know much of the things, it doesn't mean that institute is not capable.



Exactly and even, the small size horse did the best. Isn't it?



That is exactly being done in this case as well. Not every plan or reason or goals are ever shared. Thunder in its current form, size, undisclosed goodies and other capabilities are kept away from adversary unless, a head on during clash.

Hi,

Clever answers are fine amongst friends or associates---they don't win wars---.

Raise your standards of thinking---.

Your segmented response reflects that you were as clueless as the rest opf the pakistani poster about what modern air warfare is---.

Your cleverness can only work amongst the pakistani diaspora---but won't work against outsiders---.

 

[The Eagle]

Hi,

Clever answers are fine amongst friends or associates---they don't win wars---.

Raise your standards of thinking---.

Your segmented response reflects that you were as clueless as the rest opf the pakistani poster about what modern air warfare is---.

Your cleverness can only work amongst the pakistani diaspora---but won't work against outsiders---.

I haven't came with all the gun blazing to get some likes. Rather, it was very careful detail with selective restraint of approach in regard to discuss matters. The word "I" is nothing for me so I am confident not just because of nationalism but what I know at my end.

Such clever answers or discussion is being held and many like me, have been reading it, supporting it, learning & appreciated as well. Why does it need to shove down more than that one can have it (information in regard to preparation)? and you do acknowledge as well that there is no need to show our cards.

Muhtaram! lets not undermine what has been crafted/engineered with a lot of input by professionals, a JF-17 in its current size.

A bigger bird will not be Thunder anymore rather a whole new package. We have come a long way and now are rightly aligned to adopt natural course of science for our progress from smaller scale to medium & if needed, larger side.

And above all, I never consider myself clever, smarter than others or even master of anything. What keeps us all moving ahead is, learning attitude & adopting the best as per available environment (economy, resources, tech, friends and need as per doctrine).

 

[Deino]

View attachment 546865

Yes ... it shows some Indian guys holding a piece of an AMRAAM.
And you call this a clear proof that a MKI was shot-down?