JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Windjammer]

Zhuhai Airshow-2018.

yes

 

[CriticalThought]

Sure...

In reference to post 6157, an image which I posted on this forum yrs ago to explain the lethality of the AESA radar...

Image C contains 9 logical arrays. The process is called 'subarray partitioning'. And lest you think I made up that phrase...

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6068503/

Image C contains 9 subarrays or logical radars.

The black dots are three subarrays. To keep it short, the three subarrays SIMULTANEOUSLY serves as volume search and height/elevation radars.

But it is the six subarrays -- the many (+) pluses -- that make the AESA so lethal, even for SPECTRA.

1- Each subarray can transmit in a different freq with variable pulse characteristics.

2- Each subarray will be frequency agile.

3- Each subarray will be in LPI mode. See item 2.

4- All subarrays will be operating SIMULTANEOUSLY at the same target.

5- The subarray choreography software coordinate the transmit patterns and process the returns. See item 3.

SPECTRA will not be overwhelmed. The Raffle will simply NOT know it is being painted. But even if we are generous and tell SPECTRA that the Raffle is being painted, it is unlikely that SPECTRA can compensate for six SIMULTANEOUS assault in different freqs.

So for what you posted, the Raffle is hardly an ideal body. The jet is not shaped for radar low observability to start.

What I posted about image C is not speculative. It is real in the lab and in the field. I do not mean that image C have been executed in that exact manner, even though it can be. I mean that our AESA systems can do radar things that no one expected.

Finally, as an FYI regarding the three black dots lines for the volume and height/elevation subarrays...

For any non-circular antenna/array, the beam shape and sweep pattern is always perpendicular from the antenna/array physical shape. That is why the AWACS antenna is nearly flat and mounted horizontal. Its beam shape is also flat and projected as vertical. The sweep pattern is ideally for volume search.

Everything I posted above -- you can use the appropriate keywords for your own research.

The Rafale's body is not supposed to provide LO characteristics. It is supposed to concentrate the reflected signal such that a large portion of it falls at certain spots in space from where it can be measured and cancelled. You don't need to tell the Rafale it is being painted. The Rafale will actively cancel everything it measures at those spots. Apparently, the Indians asked for a wider range of frequencies than initially available. Finally, if surface material causes non-linear phase shifts, the wide range of frequencies does not matter, but that is a big if.

 

[M.AsfandYar]

Pretty much all wont matter that much in most scenarios except 3 and 4. And i am not so sure That there is that great a difference between JFT and rafales 4.

Seems this AESA is not good enough for PAF...They are salivating for italian beauty..!!
For the rest Rafale is Superior in :
1. Range
2. Payload
3. Avionics
4. Weaponry.
5. Engjne
6. Look.

 

[punit]

Pretty much all wont matter that much in most scenarios except 3 and 4. And i am not so sure That there is that great a difference between JFT and rafales 4.

If u want to ignore range and payload ...U are most welcome..

 

[M.AsfandYar]

If u want to ignore range and payload ...U are most welcome..

in most scenarios were the key words.

 

[gambit]

The Rafale's body is not supposed to provide LO characteristics. It is supposed to concentrate the reflected signal such that a large portion of it falls at certain spots in space from where it can be measured and cancelled. You don't need to tell the Rafale it is being painted. The Rafale will actively cancel everything it measures at those spots. Apparently, the Indians asked for a wider range of frequencies than initially available. Finally, if surface material causes non-linear phase shifts, the wide range of frequencies does not matter, but that is a big if.

The Raffle is good against pre-F-22/35 adversaries. The point of LPI is to spread the total scanning power over a range of freqs at an amplitude that is usually discarded by %99.999 of radars, so LPI is already problematic for SPECTRA, now compound that by at least twice, if not more, via subarrays from an AESA system. Sorry, I understand that people would love to put the American fighters down a notch or two, but SPECTRA ain't it.

 

[punit]

The Raffle is good against pre-F-22/35 adversaries. The point of LPI is to spread the total scanning power over a range of freqs at an amplitude that is usually discarded by %99.999 of radars, so LPI is already problematic for SPECTRA, now compound that by at least twice, if not more, via subarrays from an AESA system. Sorry, I understand that people would love to put the American fighters down a notch or two, but SPECTRA ain't it.

Well sir...We are not fighting any air war against uncle sam any time soon ! For the rest it still.has edge. Isnt it ?

 

[CriticalThought]

The Raffle is good against pre-F-22/35 adversaries. The point of LPI is to spread the total scanning power over a range of freqs at an amplitude that is usually discarded by %99.999 of radars, so LPI is already problematic for SPECTRA, now compound that by at least twice, if not more, via subarrays from an AESA system. Sorry, I understand that people would love to put the American fighters down a notch or two, but SPECTRA ain't it.

i think you misunderstood me. Amongst many other thoughts I shared, I said that AESA doesn't automatically mean LPI. You need the appropriate software/hardware to make it LPI. Would KLJ-7A or LKF-601E be LPI radars? We don't know yet. How would SPECTRA fare against LPI? I would like to see a scientific study. I wouldn't rely on tall claims by either Americans, or the French. So the question mark remains. The point being, Pakistan would be extremely naive to simply write off the Rafale just because we now have an AESA radar.

 

[YeBeWarned]

If u want to ignore range and payload ...U are most welcome..

Pay load and range does not matter much in Indo Pakistan war scenario , most of the battles would be over border areas or inside Pakistan which has not much geographical depth . And as for payload , JF can carry 4 bvr and 2 wvr which is more than enough to bring down 2-4 fighters .. its matter of who detect who first and fire and turn around .

 

[The Eagle]

If u want to ignore range and payload ...U are most welcome..

IAF still need two years to write competitive library after delivery of first Rafale. For those two years, 2021 is the year to wait for and to stop measuring contest here; you are out of here for a week.

Regards,

 

[LKJ86]

 

[delta2]

Things are changing at a much faster pace ... china is projected to beat us as world largest economy by 2030 therefore most likely the center of scientific research and deveĺopment will change in near future ...

Secondly you are completely wrong about US leaving Afganistan ... the moment they leave Afghanistan they will start trwating us like slaves ... there will be more chance of sanctions


Worst idea ... why dont you accept india as your dady like banhladesh and then there will be no need of weapons

The USA can throw sanctions at Pakistan as much as they want, it won't make much difference. The USA is no longer the political and moral leader of the West. Half of the US population is poor and has no social safety nets. The Europeans aren't fools, they've been bitten once.

Once the USA leaves Afghanistan it will lift a huge burden from Pakistan. Afghanistan now has access to another trade route via Iran's Chabahar port and isn't effectively land locked. This means Pakistan can seal the border completely shut except strictly controlled trade. An end of a war is always a good news and beats any would be sanctions.

 

[gambit]

How would SPECTRA fare against LPI? I would like to see a scientific study.

If SPECTRA actually 'fare' against LPI, then there would be a study, but that study would not be revealed for obvious reasons.

I wouldn't rely on tall claims by either Americans, or the French. So the question mark remains. The point being, Pakistan would be extremely naive to simply write off the Rafale just because we now have an AESA radar.

As far as US airpower goes, who would want to test their claims against ours?

 

[ziaulislam]

Pay load and range does not matter much in Indo Pakistan war scenario , most of the battles would be over border areas or inside Pakistan which has not much geographical depth . And as for payload , JF can carry 4 bvr and 2 wvr which is more than enough to bring down 2-4 fighters .. its matter of who detect who first and fire and turn around .

Pakistan is at serious disadvantage when it comes to strike mission bit for air defence missions you are partly right

 

[BATMAN]

If u want to ignore range and payload ...U are most welcome..

If you want to ignore the SD-10B, low RCS and agility advantage, ur are also welcome.