JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[MastanKhan]

1-2 years ago AVIC officials told Alan Warnes that it was unlikely that China and Italy/UK would work together in pairing the SD-10 to the Vixen. So you either go all in with China, go all in with Western COTS, or make your own stuff and be trusted by outside partners to keep their stuff (e.g., source codes) under wraps.

Hi,

Italy will not be able to keep the source codes secure for us from a threat from the US or UK---.

So---the chinese have made the right decision---.

 

[Hassan Guy]

I have a better Idea, recognize Israel and implement the JF-17 with end-to-end jewish avionics.

Aircraft is just a single link of a complete kill chain and we might not be able to move away from whatever kill chain we have develop with JF-17, now for JF-17 the only option is to upgrade the current package I mean we will lose all of our investment in Avionic production, our purpose to develop link-17 will be lost, our Karakorum Eagle AEW&C will only be become redundant , and the weapon package. We could not afford to move in other direction other than Chinese option at this stage of JF-17 program

Vixen 1000E/Grifo-E and AMRAMM won't work with link-17 and KE AWACS?

 

[HRK]

Vixen 1000E/Grifo-E and AMRAMM won't work with link-17 and KE AWACS?

Link-17 is national solution and a non-standard system in global market and to make both link-16 and link-17 inter-operable PAF is using some additional arrangements, as far as I know based on open source information F-16 and JF-17 can not directly data link with each other, same is the case with Karakorum Eagle and SAAB-2000.

BVR guidance is related to Radar so yes Vixen-1000 or Grifo-E would be able to guide AMRAAM If AMRAAM is integrated with both radars, if Vixen-1000 is chosen for our fleet of JF-17 than our already existing weapon package of JF-17 will become redundant due to non-availability of source code from OEM who would not share it with the other.

 

[denel]

I have a better Idea, recognize Israel and implement the JF-17 with end-to-end jewish avionics.


Vixen 1000E/Grifo-E and AMRAMM won't work with link-17 and KE AWACS?

There is no such thing as jewish electronics.... please dont use this verbiage. thank you.

 

[delta2]

The West still is and will remain for the foreseeable future the center of scientific and technological knowledge. Learn from them as much as you can and then some!

In my humble opinion Pakistan needs to cleanse itself from the corruption in state affairs that has become a norm. Once that has been taken care of, Pakistan needs to move forward in a full fledged manner to catch up.

Once the USA has withdrawn from Afghanistan, the current points of friction should soon disappear. This doesn't mean to forget the lessons learned. An empire after all is an empire, it has no friends. Only clients, bases and enemies.

JF-17 is the right step in the right direction. As long as the cat catches mice, it doesn't matter if it is black or white, Chinese or American.

 

[Quwa]

Link-17 is national solution and a non-standard system in global market and to make both link-16 and link-17 inter-operable PAF is using some additional arrangements, as far as I know based on open source information F-16 and JF-17 can not directly data link with each other, same is the case with Karakorum Eagle and SAAB-2000.

BVR guidance is related to Radar so yes Vixen-1000 or Grifo-E would be able to guide AMRAAM If AMRAAM is integrated with both radars, if Vixen-1000 is chosen for our fleet of JF-17 than our already existing weapon package of JF-17 will become redundant due to non-availability of source code from OEM who would not share it with the other.

So there are two issues: (1) the existing weapons inventory and (2) getting a new weapons package.

There's no point in writing-off (1), so the existing Block-I/IIs should get a Chinese AESA radar. Full-stop.

The question is really on (2), i.e. for future JF-17s starting with Block-III. Be it Chinese or Western, you now have a longer-range radar with more capabilities, so to max-out the use, you need new BVRAAM and AShM.

Personally, I'd rather we actually try producing our own BVRAAM and AShM, e.g., via a partnership with Turkey or South Africa, and not worry about going all-in on any one source. Otherwise, (2)'s weapons and electronics would need to come from one source.

 

[MastanKhan]

Please don't insult---

 

[YeBeWarned]

So there are two issues: (1) the existing weapons inventory and (2) getting a new weapons package.

There's no point in writing-off (1), so the existing Block-I/IIs should get a Chinese AESA radar. Full-stop.

The question is really on (2), i.e. for future JF-17s starting with Block-III. Be it Chinese or Western, you now have a longer-range radar with more capabilities, so to max-out the use, you need new BVRAAM and AShM.

Personally, I'd rather we actually try producing our own BVRAAM and AShM, e.g., via a partnership with Turkey or South Africa, and not worry about going all-in on any one source. Otherwise, (2)'s weapons and electronics would need to come from one source.

Would it be bad in war times of our block 1-2 along with k-eagles operate separate with block-3 ? I mean we can still bring b3 in link 16 with help of vixon 1000 , add amraam , jhmc +hobs .. that is another lvl thunder we are talking about..

 

[The Accountant]

The West still is and will remain for the foreseeable future the center of scientific and technological knowledge. Learn from them as much as you can and then some!

In my humble opinion Pakistan needs to cleanse itself from the corruption in state affairs that has become a norm. Once that has been taken care of, Pakistan needs to move forward in a full fledged manner to catch up.

Once the USA has withdrawn from Afghanistan, the current points of friction should soon disappear. This doesn't mean to forget the lessons learned. An empire after all is an empire, it has no friends. Only clients, bases and enemies.

JF-17 is the right step in the right direction. As long as the cat catches mice, it doesn't matter if it is black or white, Chinese or American.

Things are changing at a much faster pace ... china is projected to beat us as world largest economy by 2030 therefore most likely the center of scientific research and deveĺopment will change in near future ...

Secondly you are completely wrong about US leaving Afganistan ... the moment they leave Afghanistan they will start trwating us like slaves ... there will be more chance of sanctions

I have a better Idea, recognize Israel and implement the JF-17 with end-to-end jewish avionics.


Vixen 1000E/Grifo-E and AMRAMM won't work with link-17 and KE AWACS?

Worst idea ... why dont you accept india as your dady like banhladesh and then there will be no need of weapons

 

[The Accountant]

Link-17 is national solution and a non-standard system in global market and to make both link-16 and link-17 inter-operable PAF is using some additional arrangements, as far as I know based on open source information F-16 and JF-17 can not directly data link with each other, same is the case with Karakorum Eagle and SAAB-2000.

BVR guidance is related to Radar so yes Vixen-1000 or Grifo-E would be able to guide AMRAAM If AMRAAM is integrated with both radars, if Vixen-1000 is chosen for our fleet of JF-17 than our already existing weapon package of JF-17 will become redundant due to non-availability of source code from OEM who would not share it with the other.

Would it be bad in war times of our block 1-2 along with k-eagles operate separate with block-3 ? I mean we can still bring b3 in link 16 with help of vixon 1000 , add amraam , jhmc +hobs .. that is another lvl thunder we are talking about..

I think link 16 and 17 are connected via saab 2000 ... saab 2000 job is to connect both networks on real time basis ...

 

[Hassan Guy]

Worst idea

explain

 

[YeBeWarned]

I think link 16 and 17 are connected via saab 2000 ... saab 2000 job is to connect both networks on real time basis ...

Can you provide a source for it bro ?

 

[Mrc]

BVRAAM and AShM.

Interesting point ... there will b no AshM with vixen ... it will be purely a sanction pro platform with ability to fire a BVRAM which likely will never be delivered

Quality issues shud also be assessed with availability issues

Every one seems to be fussing that oh the colors on Chinese videos are not as same as western tv screens

They might be as good but they are not same ... and that's all we seem to care

 

[The Accountant]

explain

Don't you see what happened when we released asia bibi even based on justice ...

Our nation's overwhelming majority don't want it ... We as a nation hate Israel and unless you want a full chaos and civil unrest in the country and want us to destroy ourselves recognition of Israel is a no go area ...

Its in our nation's DNA ... Even Arab don't hate Israel that much as we Pakistani do ...

Can you provide a source for it bro ?

I don't remember the exact name but a senior member shared this on this very forum ... However, I will check this with a friend as well ...

 

[Kompromat]

The answer is to develop your own air to air missiles.

Till then use the imported systems as a stop gap.

That's whats planned under project Azm.

This is something the Israelis realised and solved a long time ago.

Weigh that question against the other question, "so what do we do if western equipment (sanction prone as it is) comes under sanctions, will they then perform as per expectations?" and enlighten us with your result. Where does the scale tip?

So far this is just a CGI image with no cite-able source.

From what i understand the Block-III will not feature any significant changes in the airframe.

It "might" feature a tail like the B variant.

Block-III upgrade is essentially a "plug & play" package including a new AESA radar, associated parts, new upgraded software and a full compatibility with 5th generation weaponry and sighting systems.

It has a full FBW.

The use of composite materials is to offset the increase in weight.

There's no new engine, so the priority is to maintain the TWR by all means possible.

The acceptable price ceiling is $30m.

The body kit of Corolla is in the works..