JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Kompromat]

I hope the performance of these two Chinese radars and the upcoming BVRAAM upgrade proves to be a useful solution to our air power challenges.

If not, then we have to find alternatives.

In the end, this AC is a weapon and it must have all the capability required to do deliver the kind of service we are paying for.

No body called you a policy maker or a salesman.

Without going into debate mode, i would maintain that it is this route leads to disaster and kills the whole purpose of the project. Adding sanction prone tech into it, even for export customers, is simply a bad idea.

It was meant to be sanction proof, with the said plan, it will become sanction prone.

 

[CriticalThought]

No body called you a policy maker or a salesman.

Without going into debate mode, i would maintain that this route leads to disaster and kills the whole purpose of the project. Adding sanction prone tech into it, even for export customers, is simply a bad idea.

It was meant to be sanction proof, with the said plan, it will become sanction prone.

There is no problem if they want to act as system integrators and sell to other countries who want the western solutions. The main problem is what they get into PAF inventory.

 

[Kompromat]

PAF knows what to do far better than we can. You and can speculate and comment.

They will neither get aesa nor missiles nor helmet... they will waste all the money... set back progress by 10 may be 20 years...
So if any one thinking I am talking treason please look at facts and decide who is traitor here

There is no problem if they want to act as system integrators and sell to other countries who want the western solutions. The main problem is what they get into PAF inventory.

Perhaps they'd keep all of the options open.

 

[Mrc]

If they do opt to go that way ... u can put block 3 in the list next to block 52s...

The ones we never received

 

[CriticalThought]

I hope the performance of these two Chinese radars and the upcoming BVRAAM upgrade proves to be a useful solution to our air power challenges.

If not, then we have to find alternatives.

In the end, this AC is a weapon and it must have all the capability required to do deliver the kind of service we are paying for.

It is to be noted that China faces the direct threat of AMRAAM, AIM-9X in any war with America. It is in their best interests to make something better than that. I don't know what the big hype is about AMRAAM. It is only a BVRAAM whereas with the advertised ranges of KLJ-7A, we are looking at VLRAAM such as PL-15. This is actually a severe limitation that the Americans face today because stealth fighters conceived in the 1990s didn't leave any room for VLRAAM.

 

[Mrc]

Americans will also want to go intimate with machine before they even agree for a sale that they wont carry through any way

 

[M.AsfandYar]

I am not aware of current status but you will see them in successive blocks.



Parasites & leeches.

People give CSS just to for the supposed Perks, nothing less nothing more. Even some advisors at IST tell student below 2.5 to prepare for CSS.
What can be expected from these?
And now why wouldnt they resist the change if all that is under threat?

 

[Kompromat]

PAF has a clear idea about the actual comparative capabilities of SD-10 vs AMRAAM because they operate both weapons.

If there's a decision to adopt AMRAAMs or Meteor for the JF-17s in the future, it might underline the difference in performance.

The US has notibly increased the effective range of the AMRAAM-D without changing missile's dimensions. Moreover AMRAAM is battle proven and has a respectable kill probability.

The advertised range of KLJ-7V2 is exceptional, however, we already had that long range interception capability through AWACs and ground AESA radars, but we lack an appropriate platform to carry a weapon that can leverage that increase in targeting envelop into a credible firing solution, because it'd be a challenge to adopt a rather huge VLRAAMs on a small tactical fighter.

It is to be noted that China faces the direct threat of AMRAAM, AIM-9X in any war with America. It is in their best interests to make something better than that. I don't know what the big hype is about AMRAAM. It is only a BVRAAM whereas with the advertised ranges of KLJ-7A, we are looking at VLRAAM such as PL-15. This is actually a severe limitation that the Americans face today because stealth fighters conceived in the 1990s didn't leave any room for VLRAAM.

 

[CriticalThought]

PAF has a clear idea about the actual comparative capabilities of SD-10 vs AMRAAM because they operate both weapons.

If there's a decision to adopt AMRAAMs or Meteor for the JF-17s in the future, it might underline the difference in performance.

The US has notibly increased the effective range of the AMRAAM-D without changing missile's dimensions. Moreover AMRAAM is battle proven and has a respectable kill probability.

The advertised range of KLJ-7V2 is exceptional, however, we already hadl that long range interception capability through AWACs and ground AESA radars, but we lack an appropriate platform to carry a weapon that can leverage that increase in targeting envelop into a credible firing solution, because it'd be a challenge to adopt a rather huge VLRAAMs on a small tactical fighter.

Actually, one positive about getting hands on Meteor is that Indians will be wielding those. And there is nothing better for pilot training than having live ammunition so they can understand its flight characteristics and capabilities. For me, the ideal would be to integrate Meteor and AMRAAM and sell to others. We will learn the capabilities as a side effect. Win-Win.

The Thunder should even now be able to carry the VLRAAM. If you look at the armaments on display at Zhuhai, some of them are indeed gigantic. A 2 + 2 configuration should be possible today, or at least with Block 3. If Block 3 doesn't have room for it, well..... hang the whole lot of idiots behind such poor decision making.

 

[Mrc]

With vixen and mateor u are talking about delay of atleast 3 years from now... may b it's for a foreign customer

 

[Cookie Monster]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1061146005431873537

https://twitter.com/x/status/1061142995913842688

According to above Pak is not interested in J10 and focusing on JF17, new LIFT(I assume that's JF17B), and 5th gen fighter(Azm). If we assume that the fighter being worked on under project Azm meets all expected deadlines and is flying in the next 10 years(the first few prototypes?)...then roughly an additional 5 years until PAF starts inducting it. Would the early blocks of F16s last until then? If not would they be replaced by additional JF17s?
@Oscar

 

[HRK]

No body called you a policy maker or a salesman.

Without going into debate mode, i would maintain that this route leads to disaster and kills the whole purpose of the project. Adding sanction prone tech into it, even for export customers, is simply a bad idea.

It was meant to be sanction proof, with the said plan, it will become sanction prone.

I don't think Vixen will be integrated with fleet of JF-17 with PAF but might only be available for export customers and from marketing prospective it is understandable as JF-17 with Vixen AESA, integrated with weapon package of western origin and Link-16 will be a very attractive option for those countries who are already using western origin fighters jets and associated weapon package but for one reason or other might not have option to go for other expensive western fighter jets, in addition to this it will become an alternative option for PAF fleet of F-16s and US origin weapon package in PAF.

As for Chinese AESA I don't think PAF will spend finance to reintegrate and retest the already available weapon package from China and Pakistan for JF-17. We know by adopting Vixen AESA for JF-17 in future we might lose the option to use it in STRATEGIC role.

I hope the performance of these two Chinese radars and the upcoming BVRAAM upgrade proves to be a useful solution to our air power challenges.

If not, then we have to find alternatives.

upgraded PL-12/SD-10 is reported to have same range as PL-15, so I hopeful with AESA upgrade we will definitely see upgrade of BVR and WVR missiles for JF-17

In the end, this AC is a weapon and it must have all the capability required to do deliver the kind of service we are paying for.

Aircraft is just a single link of a complete kill chain and we might not be able to move away from whatever kill chain we have develop with JF-17, now for JF-17 the only option is to upgrade the current package I mean we will lose all of our investment in Avionic production, our purpose to develop link-17 will be lost, our Karakorum Eagle AEW&C will only be become redundant , and the weapon package. We could not afford to move in other direction other than Chinese option at this stage of JF-17 program

 

[The Accountant]

I hope the performance of these two Chinese radars and the upcoming BVRAAM upgrade proves to be a useful solution to our air power challenges.

If not, then we have to find alternatives.

In the end, this AC is a weapon and it must have all the capability required to do deliver the kind of service we are paying for.

I humbly disagree ... whats the use of a weapon that will be banned in case of a war ... in 1971 indians were getting russian ammunition and we were facing american ban and lolypop ... our navy was primarily destroyed due to russian supplied missile boat secretly to india ... so if chinese systems are not upto the level of western equipment then we should work with them to make them better ... it is a win win ... we can start a jv for a bvr missile thag we can own just like thunder ...

Western option is not an option ... i dont when will we learn ... we witnessed pressler amendment ... recently we witnessed turkey and saudia fiasco ... our f16s cannot get upgrades ... still we want to consider western equipments ... we are fooling ourselves

 

[AsifIjaz]

There is a possibility that countrues have approached pakistan looking for the option of a western radar and an associated western weapons package. Morocco.. . Ksa.. Malaysia and just may be argentina may be those countries.
It makes little sense for paf to add more fighters to the arsenal available to us which will be sufficient if we get another batch of jordanians now or later down the line.
Paf would be better off to start block 3 now asap and upgrade earlier blocks with aesa. Block 3 will be a gud oponent to mki and rafael and block 1 and 2 with aesa will give u an edge or bring u at par with bisons, jaguars, mirages or even give u a chance against bigger adversaries like mki and rafael.
An upgrade to vipers or a squadron from scanadavia or jordan wud be a bonus but should not be relied upon.
My 2 cents

 

[Kompromat]

So, what do we do if the Chinese systems don't perform as per expectations?

I humbly disagree ... whats the use of a weapon that will be banned in case of a war ... in 1971 indians were getting russian ammunition and we were facing american ban and lolypop ... our navy was primarily destroyed due to russian supplied missile boat secretly to india ... so if chinese systems are not upto the level of western equipment then we should work with them to make them better ... it is a win win ... we can start a jv for a bvr missile thag we can own just like thunder ...

Western option is not an option ... i dont when will we learn ... we witnessed pressler amendment ... recently we witnessed turkey and saudia fiasco ... our f16s cannot get upgrades ... still we want to consider western equipments ... we are fooling ourselves