JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[Basel]

I don't want to tell you guys how much lower the "treated" MKI's RCS is. Just so you know, the Su-35's frontal RCS is 1m2, which is public knowledge. Even the Mig-29K's RCS is 1m2.

Earlier, the biggest contributor to the Fulcrum and Flanker's RCS was the inlets. But now...

And this is not counting EW.

Right now, you can comfortably assume that the JF-17 B2 and Su-35BM have the same RCS without weapons.



Depending on how it's defined, we are officially going to be skipping a generation through AMCA.

Anyway...

But there is a good chance the private industry's new 5th gen design could eat into the PAK FA and Rafale programs. And its performance and RCS comfortably beat the F-22. An early prototype achieved a figure of -37dBsm. Now, it's even lesser. And the payload and range are superior to the F-22. So, yeah, we have an alternate 5th gen program also.

The problem with Indians is that they think what they have is invincible and what others have is inferior, this can be very dangerous in war.

JFT has the lowest RCS is subcontinent is you think that modifying Inlets can reduce RCS to many folds.

Also PAF knows the true RCS of all your fighter jets, same goes for IAF vise versa.

 

[Armchair]

Don't feed the Indian troll, he is ruining the discussion. We all already know - Tejas Great. Let's move on.

If KLJ-7 v2 detected J-11s earlier than got detected, just imagine what GaN based AESA KLJ-7As can do. This is a game-changer. Which is the point I am trying to make - can even detect the F-22 at greater than 50 kms.

Yes, jamming can reduce range - but this is a pedantic argument as jamming reduces range for all radars. Moreover, it reduces range a lot less for AESA radars, because of the unique technological features of AESA - such as greater freqeuncy range and beam agility. Not to mention GaN is a step even greater - with a difference similar to HD versus regular video (if we were to dumb it down to that level of discourse).

Suddenly you can see the stealthy pimples on the faces of the Hollywood actresses thanks to HD (i.e. GaN). GaN also lowers the cooling requirement for an AESA, making adoption simpler and more straightforward integration.

Now all you need a is tailless delta - twin engined Azm to also put on a bit larger set (with a similar nose to a J-10C). With IRST, a low drag design, semi-recessed weapons, thrust vectoring, and viola, you have a world beating 5.5 Gen fighter. Its just that simple (I say that with some humor in case my humor gets lost in cyberspace).

 

[randomradio]

The problem with Indians is that they think what they have is invincible and what others have is inferior, this can be very dangerous in war.

Not correct. When we try to estimate, we always estimate better than it really is. And then we aim to beat that new standard. So the JFT's electronics are assumed to be at F-16 B52 standards. Even by our standards, we aim to beat systems that we already have, so the expectation is the JFT is as good if not better than the B52.

When it comes to our procurement, we have a tender process that picked out the best Western jet. So our new jet, Rafale, is obviously better than its competitors within the tender, ie, Typhoon, Super Hornet Block 3, F-16 Block 70, Gripen E and Mig-35. Now, if you want to claim the JFT is better than all the above jets, then be my guest.

As for the new 5th gen design, it's available on the internet if you know where to look. The minute you see it, you will understand its superiority over pretty much all existing designs. It was the designer himself who claimed the RCS of the older design is -37dBsm, ie, equal to the F-22.

JFT has the lowest RCS is subcontinent is you think that modifying Inlets can reduce RCS to many folds.

Yes. Treating inlets does that. That's the primary reason why the Su-35's RCS is 1m2. And this was done over 10 years ago. The new standards are even higher.

Also PAF is knows the true RCS of all your fighter jets, same goes for IAF vise versa.

Not really. We know everything about your jets, but you don't. You forget that our most advanced MKIs operate in Pune, far away from PAF's sensors. And it's these jets that will get the first set of Super MKI upgrades. Our most advanced Jaguars are also located in Pune.

 

[randomradio]

Don't feed the Indian troll, he is ruining the discussion. We all already know - Tejas Great. Let's move on.

If you had bothered to read the posts, you'd notice that none of them were about Tejas.

 

[Goku-kun]

Not correct. When we try to estimate, we always estimate better than it really is. And then we aim to beat that new standard. So the JFT's electronics are assumed to be at F-16 B52 standards. Even by our standards, we aim to beat systems that we already have, so the expectation is the JFT is as good if not better than the B52.

When it comes to our procurement, we have a tender process that picked out the best Western jet. So our new jet, Rafale, is obviously better than its competitors within the tender, ie, Typhoon, Super Hornet Block 3, F-16 Block 70, Gripen E and Mig-35. Now, if you want to claim the JFT is better than all the above jets, then be my guest.

As for the new 5th gen design, it's available on the internet if you know where to look. The minute you see it, you will understand its superiority over pretty much all existing designs. It was the designer himself who claimed the RCS of the older design is -37dBsm, ie, equal to the F-22.



Yes. Treating inlets does that. That's the primary reason why the Su-35's RCS is 1m2. And this was done over 10 years ago. The new standards are even higher.



Not really. We know everything about your jets, but you don't. You forget that our most advanced MKIs operate in Pune, far away from PAF's sensors. And it's these jets that will get the first set of Super MKI upgrades. Our most advanced Jaguars are also located in Pune.

You don't possess s-400 yet which has a very high configuration radar..
don't tell me that you think that the current radars you possess can track our jets from inside your territory because that would be a great joke..

 

[Basel]

Not correct. When we try to estimate, we always estimate better than it really is. And then we aim to beat that new standard. So the JFT's electronics are assumed to be at F-16 B52 standards. Even by our standards, we aim to beat systems that we already have, so the expectation is the JFT is as good if not better than the B52.

When it comes to our procurement, we have a tender process that picked out the best Western jet. So our new jet, Rafale, is obviously better than its competitors within the tender, ie, Typhoon, Super Hornet Block 3, F-16 Block 70, Gripen E and Mig-35. Now, if you want to claim the JFT is better than all the above jets, then be my guest.

As for the new 5th gen design, it's available on the internet if you know where to look. The minute you see it, you will understand its superiority over pretty much all existing designs. It was the designer himself who claimed the RCS of the older design is -37dBsm, ie, equal to the F-22.



Yes. Treating inlets does that. That's the primary reason why the Su-35's RCS is 1m2. And this was done over 10 years ago. The new standards are even higher.



Not really. We know everything about your jets, but you don't. You forget that our most advanced MKIs operate in Pune, far away from PAF's sensors. And it's these jets that will get the first set of Super MKI upgrades. Our most advanced Jaguars are also located in Pune.

Hope IAF have same mentality as yours, it will be good for Pakistan.

Your MKIs were not able to avoid F-16s in2008, while they were better then, and now you think with all NCW capabilities PAF will not be able to track IAF birds, what a joke.

 

[randomradio]

You don't possess s-400 yet which has a very configuration radar..
don't tell me that you think that the current radars you possess can track our jets from inside your territory because that would be a great joke..

Our current operational radars are better than the S-400's radar.

We have the Phalcon, Netra, Sword Fish, MF-STAR, EL/M-2084 and a number of other AESA radars deployed.

 

[Basel]

You don't possess s-400 yet which has a very high configuration radar..
don't tell me that you think that the current radars you possess can track our jets from inside your territory because that would be a great joke..

He is a typical Indian who believe that they have invincible weapons and others are just stupid.

 

[Goku-kun]

Our current operational radars are better than the S-400's radar.

We have the Phalcon, Netra, Sword Fish, MF-STAR, EL/M-2084 and a number of other AESA radars deployed.

that's what i'm saying that you are out of your mind because they can't detect jf-17 due to its low RCS but maybe can detect mirage,f-7 etc jets because of high RCS..
they can't even track f-16s..

 

[randomradio]

Hope IAF have same mentality as yours, it will be good for Pakistan.

You mean preparing for the worst? Yes, the IAF have the same mentality as me.

Don't worry, your PAF also lives in reality. The false bravado on this forum doesn't exist there.

Your MKIs were not able to avoid F-16s in2008, while they were better then, and now you think with all NCW capabilities PAF will not be able to track IAF birds, what a joke.

Who said anything about PAF not being able to track IAF jets? You are the one making these insinuations, not me.

All I'm saying is the MKI's been treated to have a lower RCS than you are led to believe. And I gave you a publicly revealed number for the Su-35BM also. You can check it yourself.

that's what i'm saying that you are out of your mind because they can't detect jf-17 due to its low RCS but maybe can detect mirage,f-7 etc jets because of high RCS..
they can't even track f-16s..

You've stopped making sense.

 

[Basel]

You mean preparing for the worst? Yes, the IAF have the same mentality as me.

Don't worry, your PAF also lives in reality. The false bravado on this forum doesn't exist there.



Who said anything about PAF not being able to track IAF jets? You are the one making these insinuations, not me.

All I'm saying is the MKI's been treated to have a lower RCS than you are led to believe. And I gave you a publicly revealed number for the Su-35BM also. You can check it yourself.



You've stopped making sense.

Do you know the clean RCS of JFT?? if we develop Stealthy weapons POD for current JFT, then it will be able to kill all of IAF jets without being detected.

 

[Goku-kun]

You mean preparing for the worst? Yes, the IAF have the same mentality as me.

Don't worry, your PAF also lives in reality. The false bravado on this forum doesn't exist there.



Who said anything about PAF not being able to track IAF jets? You are the one making these insinuations, not me.

All I'm saying is the MKI's been treated to have a lower RCS than you are led to believe. And I gave you a publicly revealed number for the Su-35BM also. You can check it yourself.



You've stopped making sense.

you have any proof to base your argument that su-30mki has ha lower RCS than JF-17 and JF-17 block 3 was the jet PAF always dreamed of but in the beginning we got JFT-17 block-1 and 2 ans one thing more and it is that JFT-17 block-3 is being specially designed to counter su-30mki..

 

[randomradio]

Do you know the clean RCS of JFT?? if we develop Stealthy weapons POD for current JFT, then it will be able to kill all of IAF jets without being detected.

The RCS of the JF-17 is not impressive.

And no, you are overestimating the JF-17 by a massive margin. And this is coming from the IAF where the air chief said even the J-20 does not create such an asymmetry. So forget about the JF-17 being a threat to the IAF.

 

[CriticalThought]

The RCS of the JF-17 is not impressive.

And no, you are overestimating the JF-17 by a massive margin. And this is coming from the IAF where the air chief said even the J-20 does not create such an asymmetry. So forget about the JF-17 being a threat to the IAF.

Really? Did you guys actually measure the Thunder's RCS? Do share. But I know you don't have this information.

 

[Basel]

The RCS of the JF-17 is not impressive.

And no, you are overestimating the JF-17 by a massive margin. And this is coming from the IAF where the air chief said even the J-20 does not create such an asymmetry. So forget about the JF-17 being a threat to the IAF.

Einstein, you dont know any thing about PAF and trying to lecture us. First get some info how RCS are being reduced and JFT is being developed to have lower RCS and it has capability to become silent thunder just like silent eagle & super advance hornet.