JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[araz]

IMO at best only the PL-12 and PL-10 ... I don't think the the PLA will agree to sell the PL-15 so soon, even to Pakistan.

Deino

Agreed. Plus can the size be a physical hinderance unless 2 can be mounted on the Central pylon? But then clearance might be an issue. Just a prod in the dark rather than anything concrete.

A

 

[Deino]

If they offer J20 to Pakistan then this is very small thing.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/chin...eneration-stealth-fighter-to-pakistan.109672/

Pardon to say so, but this is a wet-dream ... exactly for this this reason thread was closed.
J-20 for Pakistan, forget it.

 

[Dazzler]

Pardon to say so, but this is a wet-dream ... exactly for this this reason thread was closed.
J-20 for Pakistan, forget it.

Unless you are a policy maker in China, dont be too fast in discrediting something you have no clue.

I have seen Chinese giving us the best technology they had at a time and things have not changed much since then. My uncle was among those who flew shiny F-7Ps to Pakistan, and these were equipped with avionics, HUD that even China's own J-7 series lacked at that time.

Then, some claimed that pakistan will never be given the Z-10, rather the Z-19 only as it was meant for export. Turns out we received three, tested them all ends out and returned back with suggestions for improvement and a big thanks.

In short, you should abstain from using sweeping remarks like wet dream and what not. Things can be expressed properly without throwing slang unnecessarily.

If you do not agree with something, just say you dont and the message will be there for all to see.

 

[Deino]

Unless you are a policy maker in China, dont be too fast in discrediting something you have no clue.

I have seen Chinese giving us the best technology they had at a time and things have not changed much since then. My uncle was among those who flew shiny F-7Ps to Pakistan, and these were equipped with avionics, HUD that even China's own J-7 series lacked at that time.

Then, some claimed that pakistan will never be given the Z-10, rather the Z-19 only as it was meant for export. Turns out we received three, tested them all ends out and returned back with suggestions for improvement and a big thanks.

In short, you should abstain from using sweeping remarks like wet dream and what not. Things can be expressed properly without throwing slang unnecessarily.

If you do not agree with something, just say you dont and the message will be there for all to see.

Honestly it was not my intention to attack anyone nor to harm anyone's feelings, and even if the Sino-Pakistani-relationship is surely something special, it is far from "China delivers all Pakistan wants" nor the same as it was years before. As such IMO to deduct anything from a F-7P being better equipped than their PLAAF-J-7-counterparts or Pakistan Army getting Z-10s is too far fetched. The J-20 is currently one of the strategically most important assets, it's pure high end and any sale has not only a military technical side but also a political. A J-20 with its extreme long range is pure overkill for Pakistan.

Therefore I agree with you my words were too harsh, but from all I know for the moment, by all political connections put into context and a comparison of the situation once to today I come to the conclusion, Pakistan should not hang too high hopes to get the J-20 but instead should better try to co-develop a smaller, lighter but surely not less advanced design.

Best,
Deino

 

[Dazzler]

Honestly it was not my intention to attack anyone nor to harm anyone's feelings, and even if the Sino-Pakistani-relationship is surely something special, it is far from "China delivers all Pakistan wants" nor the same as it was years before. As such IMO to deduct anything from a F-7P being better equipped than their PLAAF-J-7-counterparts or Pakistan Army getting Z-10s is too far fetched. The J-20 is currently one of the strategically most important assets, it's pure high end and any sale has not only a military technical side but also a political. A J-20 with its extreme long range is pure overkill for Pakistan.

Therefore I agree with you my words were too harsh, but from all I know for the moment, by all political connections put into context and a comparison of the situation once to today I come to the conclusion, Pakistan should not hang too high hopes to get the J-20 but instead should better try to co-develop a smaller, lighter but surely not less advanced design.

Best,
Deino

On the contrary, we always had our own plans and so is the case today. Project Azm has absolutely nothing to do with J-20. I dont care what some naive members chest thump about j-20 here, but it is contrary to the truth. Pakistan never stretched China either for political or military purposes. The history is a testament to that. We never asked for J-11 as we knew Russians will cause problems for Chinese despite at least two of former Air Chiefs had an eye on them. We never even asked them to show us the j-20, let along sell us.

That's called mutual respect and understanding each other's limitations.

We instead went all guns on the jf-17 and accommodated it with every gizmo we could. Today, it has one of the securest datalinks, high performance LPI capable RWR, cutting EW suite with integrated ECM/ ESM system. We also tweaked the radar a little and played around tricks we leaned while assembling/ testing Grifo versions.

The block 3 will show the world that when a light fighter comes to demanding respect, it gets that.

 

[MiG-35-BD]

I think the J-20 is not overkill for the PN. A flight of 4 alone would drastically shift the naval balance in favor of Pakistan. At a cost of 100-120 million a plane, that would be about 500 million dollars for a capability that would allow the PN to dominate the "Indian" ocean.

@Deino your point earlier was China will not give Pakistan the J-20. Not about it being overkill. That I think is a baseless idea on your part.

 

[Deino]

I think the J-20 is not overkill for the PN. A flight of 4 alone would drastically shift the naval balance in favor of Pakistan. At a cost of 100-120 million a plane, that would be about 500 million dollars for a capability that would allow the PN to dominate the "Indian" ocean.

@Deino your point earlier was China will not give Pakistan the J-20. Not about it being overkill. That I think is a baseless idea on your part.

Pardon again and I think you both got me wrong: surely the J-20 WOULD not be an overkill from Pakistan's point of view and quite well suited for the PAF - I don't think on the PN - but as a political sign to sell J-20s to Pakistan it would be an overkill.

Anyway... in the end we can only agree to disagree.

Deino

 

[The-Hack]

I think the J-20 is not overkill for the PN. A flight of 4 alone would drastically shift the naval balance in favor of Pakistan. At a cost of 100-120 million a plane, that would be about 500 million dollars for a capability that would allow the PN to dominate the "Indian" ocean.

@Deino your point earlier was China will not give Pakistan the J-20. Not about it being overkill. That I think is a baseless idea on your part.

Just four planes can change the balance of power in favor of Pakistan, you has to look these figures,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Indian_Navy_ships

The Indian Navy is one of the largest navies in the world,
and as of January 2018 possesses

• 1 aircraft carrier,
• 1 amphibious transport dock,
• 8 Landing ship tanks,
• 11 destroyers,
• 14 frigates,
• 1 nuclear-powered attack submarine,
• 1 Ballistic missile submarine,
• 14 conventionally-powered attack submarines,
• 22 corvettes,
• 4 mine countermeasure vessels,
• 10 large offshore patrol vessels,
• 4 fleet tankers and various auxiliary vessels and small patrol boats

Besides the following navy ships, the Indian Coast Guard operates around 90 - 100 armed patrol ships of various sizes.

 

[ziaulislam]

Just four planes can change the balance of power in favor of Pakistan, you has to look these figures,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_Indian_Navy_ships

The Indian Navy is one of the largest navies in the world,
and as of January 2018 possesses

• 1 aircraft carrier,
• 1 amphibious transport dock,
• 8 Landing ship tanks,
• 11 destroyers,
• 14 frigates,
• 1 nuclear-powered attack submarine,
• 1 Ballistic missile submarine,
• 14 conventionally-powered attack submarines,
• 22 corvettes,
• 4 mine countermeasure vessels,
• 10 large offshore patrol vessels,
• 4 fleet tankers and various auxiliary vessels and small patrol boats

Besides the following navy ships, the Indian Coast Guard operates around 90 - 100 armed patrol ships of various sizes.

true power is 14+11 ships..we need therefore at least 14-18 strong force for the future
their coverttes are more like our FAS(apart from 3 front line kamorta class)
they have 14 subs but half of them in very poor state and require retirement

i had discussed their navy in detail in another thread and i did say that indian navy is in big trouble and will go for more imported ships as stop gap and they did...just ordered 4 more ships

 

[The-Hack]

true power is 14+11 ships..we need therefore at least 14-18 strong force for the future
their coverttes are more like our FAS(apart from 3 front line kamorta class)
they have 14 subs but half of them in very poor state and require retirement

i had discussed their navy in detail in another thread and i did say that indian navy is in big trouble and will go for more imported ships as stop gap and they did...just ordered 4 more ships

You are too right sir, i also aware about the well lubricated picture of Indian Navy,

 

[Sine Nomine]

I don't think on the PN - but as a political sign to sell J-20s to Pakistan it would be an overkill.

I will be happy if you would elaborate it a bit.

 

[nomi007]

Two-seat in Kamra, might be the one ferried by C-17

Two-seat in Kamra, might be the one ferried by C-17

Feb 6, 2018 UAE C17 globemaster at Chengdu

We see a JF17 fuselage

 

[clarkgap]

Two-seat in Kamra, might be the one ferried by C-17



Feb 6, 2018 View attachment 456470 UAE C17 globemaster at Chengdu

We see a JF17 fuselage

 

[GriffinsRule]

They installed a pedestal fan behind the 2nd cockpit! That an engineering feat of its own merit =D

 

[Fawad alam]

pedestal fan behind the 2nd cockpit

Behind the cockpit is the workshop's wall.

View attachment 456512

My be preparing for 23rd March parade, but i wish to see J-20 as Chinese representation.