JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 7]

[BATMAN]

Dear @MastanKhan
I have noticed that JF-17B's front wheel has relatively longer shaft!
As a result nose of JF-17B appears raised. I guess they were looking for some extra clearance underneath, most likely for bigger fuel tanks.. as you have always pointed out.
IMO, this is wrong design, instead they should have added inches at rear wheels, which may have added even more viewing angle for pilot.
or may be my observation is false!

 

[Basel]

Dear @MastanKhan
I have noticed that JF-17B's front wheel has relatively longer shaft!
As a result nose of JF-17 appears raised. I guess they were looking for some extra clearance underneath, most likely for bigger fuel tanks.. as you have always pointed out.
IMO, this is wrong design, instead they should have added inches at rear wheels, which may have added even more viewing angle for pilot.
or may be my observation is false!

PAF still have opportunity to redesign undercarriage similarly done in Gripen.

 

[ziaulislam]

It's not necessary to wait for HMD in order to start rolling out the planes. If the core platform (airframe + engine) is available, then stubs can be placed for other features and production started. The idea is to start operationalizing the new block ASAP. New technologies can be added as they become available.

true but in sub continent scenrio WVR engagement will happen actually more frequent and unless jf-17 has a 5th gen WVR missle plus HMD it will be at disadvantage

 

[CriticalThought]

true but in sub continent scenrio WVR engagement will happen actually more frequent and unless jf-17 has a 5th gen WVR missle plus HMD it will be at disadvantage

I am not an expert on this so if someone knows better please correct me. Logically speaking, JF-17 + F-16 complement each other. Once JF-17 does the initial harassment with BVRs, the F-16s should vector in and use their supreme agility and manoeuvrability to engage the bandit at WVR. Now during the dogfight, if the AWACS can discriminate between our F-16 and enemy fighter and provide correct coordinates to JF-17, it can still keep harassing the bandit with BVRs while F-16 engages from WVR. It would be dangerous except if the BVR is able to accurately differentiate between friend and foe based on input from AWACS. It boils down to the capability of AWACS + BVR which PAF will not be sharing with us.

Another scenario is to send in the Mirages/F-7PGs for close combat while JF-17/F-16 harass from far. If seniors on the forum are to be believed, the PG is an excellent point defence fighter with Mach 2 speeds.

Now with Block 3, technically JF-17 should get a much better engine, and in terms of manoeuvrability should be at par with F-16. HOBS is not the end all in dog fighting, otherwise, none of our fighters stand a chance against Indian fighters.

Another thing to note with HOBS is that in the end, distance matters. If he is able to close in on you and fires from 600m - 1 km at you, you are roast turkey. But if he fires from 10 km, then the usual flares/chaff dispenser can be your good friend.

And, in the end, in a world of network centric warfare, you don't really need HMD/S to fire a HOBS missile. If the AWACS or your buddy has a lock on the bandit, you can fire that HOBS missile without needing an HMD/S.

No wonder PAF is looking for 9 AWACS!!!!

 

[Basel]

I am not an expert on this so if someone knows better please correct me. Logically speaking, JF-17 + F-16 complement each other. Once JF-17 does the initial harassment with BVRs, the F-16s should vector in and use their supreme agility and manoeuvrability to engage the bandit at WVR. Now during the dogfight, if the AWACS can discriminate between our F-16 and enemy fighter and provide correct coordinates to JF-17, it can still keep harassing the bandit with BVRs while F-16 engages from WVR. It would be dangerous except if the BVR is able to accurately differentiate between friend and foe based on input from AWACS. It boils down to the capability of AWACS + BVR which PAF will not be sharing with us.

Another scenario is to send in the Mirages/F-7PGs for close combat while JF-17/F-16 harass from far. If seniors on the forum are to be believed, the PG is an excellent point defence fighter with Mach 2 speeds.

Now with Block 3, technically JF-17 should get a much better engine, and in terms of manoeuvrability should be at par with F-16. HOBS is not the end all in dog fighting, otherwise, none of our fighters stand a chance against Indian fighters.

Another thing to note with HOBS is that in the end, distance matters. If he is able to close in on you and fires from 600m - 1 km at you, you are roast turkey. But if he fires from 10 km, then the usual flares/chaff dispenser can be your good friend.

And, in the end, in a world of network centric warfare, you don't really need HMD/S to fire a HOBS missile. If the AWACS or your buddy has a lock on the bandit, you can fire that HOBS missile without needing an HMD/S.

No wonder PAF is looking for 9 AWACS!!!!

The thing is A Darter can be used as HOBS missile by help of other PAF bird in NCW environment, while AIM-9 which Pakistan purchased with block-50/52s have limited HOBS capacity with JHMCS.

 

[ziaulislam]

The thing is A Darter can be used as HOBS missile by help of other PAF bird in NCW environment, while AIM-9 which Pakistan purchased with block-50/52s have limited HOBS capacity with JHMCS.

a darter was a good opportunity, but Pakistan didnt join the project even though deneil was desperate for a partner

whether this was due to fact that Chinese/South africans wouldnt allow a foreign integration into thunder or lack of interest Pakistani side, plus the question whether darter could have replaced the aim9x requirement into f16 was possible.

the new opturnity over the horizon is the turkish short and long range BVRs but i dont see us showing interest in that either

 

[CriticalThought]

a darter was a good opportunity, but Pakistan didnt join the project even though deneil was desperate for a partner

whether this was due to fact that Chinese/South africans wouldnt allow a foreign integration into thunder or lack of interest Pakistani side, plus the question whether darter could have replaced the aim9x requirement into f16 was possible.

the new opturnity over the horizon is the turkish short and long range BVRs but i dont see us showing interest in that either

The ACM's words are to be carefully analysed. In his recent pronouncement from Skardu, he says

Hamaray western aircraft kay ooper jo kuch limitations lagi hain us ko hum nai poora compensate kia hai JF-17 kay ooper. JF-17 is the pride of this nation. Us ko capability wise, main us ki details main nahin jana chahta hoon for the obvious reasons. Laikin koi bhi jo modern jet kay roles aap expect kar saktay hain Allah ka bara shukar hai key JF-17 is equipped with those roles. Aur buhat achi baat yeh hai keh in main say majority of jo capbilities hum nai F-17 ko di hain woh hum nay kudh apnay engineers aur apni research bodies, un say mil kar yeh capabilities di hain so I'm very proud of the JF-17 program.

In the same interview somebody asks him specifically about SU-30/M2K and acquiring J-10 (does this guy frequent defence.pk???? ) blah blah, and the ACM categorically states that we are prepared for it all. And there you have it.

 

[The Accountant]

Seems like routine

The ACM's words are to be carefully analysed. In his recent pronouncement from Skardu, he says

In the same interview somebody asks him specifically about SU-30/M2K and acquiring J-10 (does this guy frequent defence.pk???? ) blah blah, and the ACM categorically states that we are prepared for it all. And there you have it.

statements

 

[CriticalThought]

Seems like routine

statements

He issued them in response to some very specific and pointed questions.

 

[Bilal Khan 777]

It's not necessary to wait for HMD in order to start rolling out the planes. If the core platform (airframe + engine) is available, then stubs can be placed for other features and production started. The idea is to start operationalizing the new block ASAP. New technologies can be added as they become available.

HMD has been part of cockpit and avionics layout since block 1.

 

[Thorough Pro]

When my Air Chief smiles at the questions regarding enemy threats and states very confidently that we are ready, I trust him and sleep peacefully.

My respect to all defence forces of Pakistan.

The ACM's words are to be carefully analysed.

 

[Liquidmetal]

The ACM's words are to be carefully analysed. In his recent pronouncement from Skardu, he says

In the same interview somebody asks him specifically about SU-30/M2K and acquiring J-10 (does this guy frequent defence.pk???? ) blah blah, and the ACM categorically states that we are prepared for it all. And there you have it.

I love this interview, the ACM rocks, a true leader, and the way he says I am not bothered about the IAF's threats is just so cool, and pricks the air out of the Indian hot air balloon.

 

[CriticalThought]

HMD has been part of cockpit and avionics layout since block 1.

Sir, apologies, I abbreviated HMD/S to HMD.

 

[blinder]

No JF-17 this year at the SIAE Le Bourget, according to their provisional list of attendees

 

[messiach]

You should wait for official statement. There is a video i have seen here of FC1 flying with WS13.

Great news. So it means Ws13 will replace Rd93 on Jf17?