JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[RAMPAGE]

If we are going for more F-16's. Dont raise your hopes for higher end JF-17 in block-III. At most they will introduce an extra hardpoint, a PESA radar, comprehensive NET-centric capability with ability to link with Erieye and F-16 and able to carry Ra'ad ALCM. Forget about IRST,composites and AESA radar till Block IV

I won't be surprised if you turn out to be right. I will be disappointed but that cannot be help.

 

[Mrc]

If we are going for more F-16's. Dont raise your hopes for higher end JF-17 in block-III. At most they will introduce an extra hardpoint, a PESA radar, comprehensive NET-centric capability with ability to link with Erieye and F-16 and able to carry Ra'ad ALCM. Forget about IRST,composites and AESA radar till Block IV

But f16s are very different... and no airforce in world invests in just one fighter.....

There may be even more on top of f16s that they are yet to disclose

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

Machine Gun for close air dog fight

JF-17 Thunder,GSh-23-2 twin-barrel Cannon.
Cannons were considered obsolete in the late 60's after the advent of A2A missiles.. but humbling lessons in Vietnam proved otherwise. Today with the advancement in missile tech people are again considering the usefulness of cannons in A2A combat.
However.. in the current scenario of asymmetric threats.. the cannons have proved very useful in the A2G role as well.
traditional A2A fighters such as the F-15C can also provide a show of force by strafing with their cannon.
And many sorties against the taliban ended up being conducted with strafing runs after going Winchester on other ordnance.

Two or three cannons is debatable on the need for firepower.
A single 20mm cannon is enough to tackle most A2A threats.
Dual 30mm cannons are more suited to handling larger aircraft.
The accuracy of the cannons matters as well as ammo capacity.
Russian jets like the Fulcrum and Flanker carrry much less ammo for their cannons than western counterparts.. much they claim to have much better accuracy than the former.

GSh-23L_cannon

The Gryazev-Shipunov GSh-23 (Russian: ГШ-23) is a twin-barreled 23 mm autocannon developed in the Soviet Union, primarily for military aircraft use. It entered service in 1965, replacing the earlier Nudelman-Rikhter NR-23 cannon.


GSh-23 displayed in the Egyptian Military museum
The GSh-23 works on the Gast Gun principle developed by German engineer Karl Gast of the Vorwerk company in 1916. It is a twin-barreled weapon in which the firing action of one barrel operates the mechanism of the other. It provides a much faster rate of fire for lower mechanical wear than a single-barrel weapon.

Although it cannot match the sustained rate of fire of an electric Gatling gun like the M61 Vulcan GAU, because it doesn't need to spool up, its initial rate of fire is higher. It requires no external power source to operate, but is instead powered by the recoiling of the floating barrels, somewhat like the action of the German MG-42. The Gast principle has been little used in the West, but was popular in the former Soviet Union on a variety of weapons. It is reported to be a very reliable, robust weapon easily maintained in the field.[citation needed]

The cannon comes in a basic GSh-23 variant, and the more popular GSh-23L (ГШ-23Л), differing mostly in adding a muzzle brake, lowering recoil force. This cannon was standard fit on late-model MiG-21 fighters (M, SM, MF, SMT, bis), all variants of the MiG-23, the SOKO J-22 Orao, the HAL Tejas and IAR 93, and the tail turrets of the Tupolev Tu-22M bomber and some late-model Tu-95s. In that application, it had the unusual ability to fire infrared flares and chaff rounds, allowing it to function as both a weapon and a dispenser of anti-missile countermeasures. It is also mounted on late small series Mi-24VP helicopters (in the NPPU-23 movable mounting) and Polish W-3WA Sokół helicopter in fixed mounting. The cannon was also used on cargo aircraft; specifically, Russian/Soviet Ilyushin Il-76 aircraft were designed to accommodate twin Gsh-23L's in a tail turret.[1] An Il-76M with just such a configuration could be seen at the 2002 Ivanovo airshow.[2]

Some 2nd generation MiG-21 models could carry the GSh-23L in an under-fuselage gondola designated the GP-9, carrying the cannon and 200 rounds of ammunition; this was replaced by a more streamlined semi-conformal installation in later variants. There are also several gun pods available for mounting on external hardpoints: UPK-23 for air-to-air use, with one or two fixed GSh-23 guns and 200-400 rounds of ammunition, and SPPU-22 pods with traversable barrels for strafing, from 0° to −30° and carried 280 rounds of ammunition in each (they were most often carried by the Su-17/-20/-22 as well as the Su-25/-39 in pairs).

The infantry should be given some of those cannons

 

[Mrc]

The infantry should be given some of those cannons

True. Can be placed on vehicles

 

[SSGcommandoPAK]

True. Can be placed on vehicles

Ohh really ? i was just being sarcastic

 

[MastanKhan]

Ohh really ? i was just being sarcastic

OHHHHH---the innocence of the young------

 

[razgriz19]

Keep in mind, JF-17 crashed because it was pushed to its limit. Composites or no composites. The G limit will hover b/w 8-8.5

the aircraft crashed just after take off
How was it pulling 8-9g on take off?

 

[MastanKhan]

Keep in mind, JF-17 crashed because it was pushed to its limit. Composites or no composites. The G limit will hover b/w 8-8.5

Hi,

When an air craft has a limiting G factor at 8---it means that it can take around 10 +- G's---because there is always that margin of safety calculated---.

You also want to limit the G's during training so that not to put the frame under undue stress.

 

[Bratva]

the aircraft crashed just after take off
How was it pulling 8-9g on take off?

Hi,

When an air craft has a limiting G factor at 8---it means that it can take around 10 +- G's---because there is always that margin of safety calculated---.

You also want to limit the G's during training so that not to put the frame under undue stress.

Yes you are right. But I dont think they are pushing JF-17 beyond 8.5 and thats for CCS JF-17's. That crash put PAF on a backfoot. That pushing 8 G multiple times in one training sortie will cause bad karma.

 

[fatman17]

PAKISTAN HAS MANUFACTURED 66 JF-17 THUNDER AIRCRAFT: NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BODY TOLD

December 31, 2015

RECORDER REPORT



Secretary Defence Production informed the National Assembly Standing Committee on Defence Production on Wednesday that Pakistan has manufactured as many as 66 JF-17 Thunder aircrafts. The officials of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra (PAC) briefed the parliament's standing committee. A brief presentation was given about the products, services and capabilities of PAC Kamra. Meeting of the committee was held under Khawaja Sohail Mansoor.

Chairman PAC asked the parliamentarians to recommend the government to enhance the retirement age of aeronautical experts and technician of 60 years as there is shortage of technical experts. He further requested the government to device a special pay scale and perks and privileges to the employees of Aeronautical Complex Kamra. The official further stated that board of directors of PAC should be given additional authority to take decision in the development of the aeronautical sector in Pakistan.

The committee was also informed that maintenance of defence equipment in the complex takes two to six months depending on the scope of maintenance work. Pakistan can not import defence related equipments for up-gradation of their defence products despite being a Muslim nuclear power country. "We are working hard to achieve self reliance in defence production", the official said. The official further said that Pakistan is using indigenous defence equipments in war against terror and doing its repairing and maintenance at home. The official admitted that marketing of defence products in international market is a tricky job. Pakistan is signing defence deals without getting option of transfer of technology.

 

[fatman17]

Rare overview

 

[Zarvan]

PAKISTAN HAS MANUFACTURED 66 JF-17 THUNDER AIRCRAFT: NATIONAL ASSEMBLY BODY TOLD

December 31, 2015

RECORDER REPORT



Secretary Defence Production informed the National Assembly Standing Committee on Defence Production on Wednesday that Pakistan has manufactured as many as 66 JF-17 Thunder aircrafts. The officials of Pakistan Aeronautical Complex Kamra (PAC) briefed the parliament's standing committee. A brief presentation was given about the products, services and capabilities of PAC Kamra. Meeting of the committee was held under Khawaja Sohail Mansoor.

Chairman PAC asked the parliamentarians to recommend the government to enhance the retirement age of aeronautical experts and technician of 60 years as there is shortage of technical experts. He further requested the government to device a special pay scale and perks and privileges to the employees of Aeronautical Complex Kamra. The official further stated that board of directors of PAC should be given additional authority to take decision in the development of the aeronautical sector in Pakistan.

The committee was also informed that maintenance of defence equipment in the complex takes two to six months depending on the scope of maintenance work. Pakistan can not import defence related equipments for up-gradation of their defence products despite being a Muslim nuclear power country. "We are working hard to achieve self reliance in defence production", the official said. The official further said that Pakistan is using indigenous defence equipments in war against terror and doing its repairing and maintenance at home. The official admitted that marketing of defence products in international market is a tricky job. Pakistan is signing defence deals without getting option of transfer of technology.

So now we have confirmed 4 squadrons. I hope upgradtion of Block I to Block II has already begun.

 

[krash]

View attachment 284255



Yes you are right. But I dont think they are pushing JF-17 beyond 8.5 and thats for CCS JF-17's. That crash put PAF on a backfoot. That pushing 8 G multiple times in one training sortie will cause bad karma.

Correct me if I'm wrong but @TaimiKhan's post puts the coupling of the added sensor with high Gs as the reason for the crash, not the high Gs. Furthermore, it has since been stated many times that after the accident the wings of the birds were strengthened, including of those that had already been built.

Plus the G limitation would have thoroughly been tested with the prototypes and, since then, on the production aircraft as well. If PAF is actually superstitious enough to believe in bad juju or 'karma' then God help us all.

 

[MastanKhan]

Just want to know, how many Gs by JFT confirmed yet? as i couldn't find maybe some members would have mentioned.
Thanks in advance.

Pakistan Zindabad

Hi,

This link should answer most of the questions of most posters----.

Difficulty in pulling high Gs - Air Power

Allah has provided you kids with a search engine called GOOGLE----think of it as one of the Blessing of Allah---that people in my age group did not have when we were young---and then we had to read a lots of books to find the information or learn about things.

The kids nowadays are so stupid including mine-----that they can't even go and search this blessing of Allah----.

So---anyway---live and learn---.

So now we have confirmed 4 squadrons. I hope upgradtion of Block I to Block II has already begun.

It is almost finishing----or finished.

View attachment 284255



Yes you are right. But I dont think they are pushing JF-17 beyond 8.5 and thats for CCS JF-17's. That crash put PAF on a backfoot. That pushing 8 G multiple times in one training sortie will cause bad karma.

Hi,

Human body cannot take multiple high G turns in the same sortie---it gets beat up and needs to recover---the aircraft---the machine----it can take it as many times as it needs to.

 

[Zarvan]

Hi,

This link should answer most of the questions of most posters----.

Difficulty in pulling high Gs - Air Power

Allah has provided you kids with a search engine called GOOGLE----think of it as one of the Blessing of Allah---that people in my age group did not have when we were young---and then we had to read a lots of books to find the information or learn about things.

The kids nowadays are so stupid including mine-----that they can't even go and search this blessing of Allah----.

So---anyway---live and learn---.



It is almost finishing----or finished.



Hi,

Human body cannot take multiple high G turns in the same sortie---it gets beat up and needs to recover---the aircraft---the machine----it can take it as many times as it needs to.

That's good news so in few months we would have all BLOCK II no BLOCK I. That is great development.