JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 6]

[RAMPAGE]

Not cleared for export yet. Mass production would began in next year or in 2017.

Yaar this is not good at all. Blk 3 should go into production by early 2018. The absence of a 4++ gen fighter in PAF has left it very vulnerable.

 

[Al-Taïr]

Hi,

Take a look at the internal fuel capacities on both aircraft---as the wheels moved outwards and folded in farther away from the fuselage---that area became available for fuel tank + hard points.

Grippen did not increase the wing area---but Paf can do something like that----it can put taller landing gears to have more clearance under the belly----and have more hard points----plus a bigger engine----but that could be in blk4 or 5----

Wont it make the jet a big, fat, slow ,overweight, underpowered, bigger blip on radar.. ?
I dont think even ws-13 would be able to support that kind of a burden. (Combined with AESA chin POD & other stuff) . . U are talking about an engine with bigger dimensions. . Bigger engine means major changes in air frame. Means bigger belly , means bigger over all jet dimensions, means more room for fuel&pods ... & if we are going to make so many changes, why shouldnt we just call it JF-27 ..

Or we can use ws-10 (used in j10b) in dual seater thunder and keep it as an option for an upgrade

 

[Bratva]

Yaar this is not good at all. Blk 3 should go into production by early 2018. The absence of a 4++ gen fighter in PAF has left it very vulnerable.

PL-10 is still there as a backup. HOBS missile is least of the worries for blk 3 . What concerns me is PAF is fixated over Block IV V and so on. They might delay some capability enhancements of blk 3 for to be in Block IV. Just like they pushed blk 2 upgrades to blk 3

 

[MastanKhan]

Wont it make the jet a big, fat, slow ,overweight, underpowered, bigger blip on radar.. ?
I dont think even ws-13 would be able to support that kind of a burden. (Combined with AESA chin POD & other stuff) . . U are talking about an engine with bigger dimensions. . Bigger engine means major changes in air frame. Means bigger belly , means bigger over all jet dimensions, means more room for fuel&pods ... & if we are going to make so many changes, why shouldnt we just call it JF-27 ..

Or we can use ws-10 (used in j10b) in dual seater thunder and keep it as an option for an upgrade

Hi,

Welcome to the board---but you are ill informed about the issues---please search the posts for answers---.

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Unless we solve the power-plant issue, JFT will remain handicapped.

 

[sohail.ishaque]

PL-10 is still there as a backup. HOBS missile is least of the worries for blk 3 . What concerns me is PAF is fixated over Block IV V and so on. They might delay some capability enhancements of blk 3 for to be in Block IV. Just like they pushed blk 2 upgrades to blk 3

PAF need numbers, so that they can phaseout the obselete jets.... I think they dont have the choice to wait for R&D... If the jet is getting delayed due to some feature, they opt for it in the next block and go with whatever options they can have and roll it out...

 

[MastanKhan]

Wont it make the jet a big, fat, slow ,overweight, underpowered, bigger blip on radar.. ?
I dont think even ws-13 would be able to support that kind of a burden. (Combined with AESA chin POD & other stuff) . . U are talking about an engine with bigger dimensions. . Bigger engine means major changes in air frame. Means bigger belly , means bigger over all jet dimensions, means more room for fuel&pods ... & if we are going to make so many changes, why shouldnt we just call it JF-27 ..

Or we can use ws-10 (used in j10b) in dual seater thunder and keep it as an option for an upgrade

Hi,

How much bigger is the Grippen NG from the regular Grippen---even with a bigger engine-----

 

[Al-Taïr]

Hi,

How much bigger is the Grippen NG from the regular Grippen---even with a bigger engine-----

F404 & F414 have exactly the same size i.e 154". Difference in thrust is due to pressure ratio .
Still 1.1m increase in length. And any one with slight experience in designing will tell you. 1100mm is ALOooT... balancing the plane arround center of gravity alone will require redesigning. Then come the wings, probably with bigger surface area and stronger roots to carry new extra-load. . & according to viper (pdf user) thunder needs a bigger nose for bigger AESA . So we will definatly need bigger & stronger stablizers, to keep the jet nimble, Thats alot of R&D . And sadly we dont do R&D.

But we must start R&D

 

[aliyusuf]

F404 & F414 have exactly the same size i.e 154". Difference in thrust is due to pressure ratio .
Still 1.1m increase in length. And any one with slight experience in designing will tell you. 1100mm is ALOooT... balancing the plane arround center of gravity alone will require redesigning. Then come the wings, probably with bigger surface area and stronger roots to carry new extra-load. . & according to viper (pdf user) thunder needs a bigger nose for bigger AESA . So we will definatly need bigger & stronger stablizers, to keep the jet nimble, Thats alot of R&D . And sadly we dont do R&D.

But we must start R&D

Time and adequate resources are couple of things that the PAF don't have.

They need to replace the ageing legacy fighters in the fleet ASAP. They are already behind on their original planned estimates from around 2007 and 2008. They wouldn't want to fall further behind and also incur additional expenses in the process in order to further enhance the current iteration.

What that would mean is that if there is something that is going to delay Block-III then they won't hold back and go ahead and deploy Block-III without that something. They will take care of that something in a later Block-IV if need be and so on. This is evident with Block-I and Block-II. Many things that were a given on the Block-I are eventually coming on Block-II (albeit with upgradation to Block-I as well) and somethings that were supposed to be on Block-II and wasn't feasible wrt time and expense constraints have been scheduled to be included on Block-III.

So where I am headed with all this is that the modifications that @MastanKhan sir is suggesting may not be a probable inclusion on Block-III but could certainly be a part of a Block-IV. The more powerful engines could also be a part of a Block-IV. But that is not necessarily going to slow down the induction cycle of the JFT. I believe the PAF is going to continue building upon what they have learnt on the JFT and bring in changes in increments. We may really see a JFT-NG this way, sooner than later. R&D is taking place but it may not be reflected as frequently on production blocks as we would like.

 

[Mani2020]

PL-10 is still there as a backup. HOBS missile is least of the worries for blk 3 . What concerns me is PAF is fixated over Block IV V and so on. They might delay some capability enhancements of blk 3 for to be in Block IV. Just like they pushed blk 2 upgrades to blk 3

Paf is seriously short on numbers... apparently it seems that the number of squadrons is all right but considering that more than 50 percent of paf's jets need replacement and in past 2decades or so paf hasn't bought anything new that is formidable enough to send our neighbours a strong message except for 18 new f16s.... for the past 10 years we are hearing about a new platform that will soon be inducted but that soon never came and as a result we still haven't found anything that we can induct in foreseeable future... due to urgent needs of replacement paf is doing Hodge podge of things when it comes to jf17....to speed up things they are even missing on things that a true 4 or 4.5 generation aircraft are supposed to have... i wont believe on the words of fanboys and so called insider informations.... paf is in some trouble with ever increasing quantity and quality of iaf's inventory

 

[Bratva]

Hi,

How much bigger is the Grippen NG from the regular Grippen---even with a bigger engine-----

 

[Basel]

Hi,

This is what came out from the top when the Chinese offered 18 J10B's to Pakistan---Pakistan reserved the right to get them in an emergency----but decided to keep their focus on the BLK3----. Aesa and BLK3 are their priority---it is Paf's pet project and it is a matter of life and death for them for it to succeed. It is a matter of total pride and commitment.

So---basically nothing much else can be done---until and unless the defense minister or the army chief says---these are the other aircraft that you are getting and in these numbers.

As a major European weapons contract is now dead---so options are again open for weapons systems---. The air commodore in his interview may have wanted to say more---but did not----.

You are right about "emergency" availability of jets from China, a minister once said in interview that 2 squadrons of jets will be available if emergency arises, they are not in Pakistan but our pilots are mastering them.

 

[MastanKhan]

Paf is seriously short on numbers... apparently it seems that the number of squadrons is all right but considering that more than 50 percent of paf's jets need replacement and in past 2decades or so paf hasn't bought anything new that is formidable enough to send our neighbours a strong message except for 18 new f16s.... for the past 10 years we are hearing about a new platform that will soon be inducted but that soon never came and as a result we still haven't found anything that we can induct in foreseeable future... due to urgent needs of replacement paf is doing Hodge podge of things when it comes to jf17....to speed up things they are even missing on things that a true 4 or 4.5 generation aircraft are supposed to have... i wont believe on the words of fanboys and so called insider informations.... paf is in some trouble with ever increasing quantity and quality of iaf's inventory

Hi,

You are correct---the only focus of the PAF had been the JF 17----it really lost its total sense of over all direction.

This aircraft can carry only 1 CM400AKG AShM----that is not enough---we need something that can carry 4 of them or at least 3---- per aircraft.

That is just gambling it away---. You will have one aircraft that can sneak in and can only deliver one anti ship missile---the odds of it reaching the target before being intercepted are not high.

Until and unless there is not a volley of 3 to 4 missiles on a large ship you cannot with certainty claim a hit.

 

[Al-Taïr]

They can work on shedding some weight by replacing metal with composits, may be carbon fiber sheets for lesser joints and thus weight. And thus smaller RCS. Lighter jet means greater range. And spare power for AESA .
So, if I had to suggest modifications priorities, it will be,

1) composits + whatever is necessary to reduce weight. (& hopefully RCS)
2) bigger & better AESA (in a bigger nose)
3) ws13
4) more air to air missiles
5) more fuel capacity

 

[Thunder.Storm]