JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[Farooqi1]

sorry bro but i can't keep eating this BULL over & over again. FIRSTLY if we wished for it to be such a "secretive" thing we wouldn't be running around with it to every airshow & trying to export it!

Secondly we wouldn't have been looking for a better avionics suite & weapons system for it around the whole continent of europe!

I am sorry but JF-17 like Mastan sir has been saying for the last 3 years on this forum that it is having all sort of "teething problems"! i personally believe that by choosing JF-17 pakistan has kept an elephant as a pet & doesn't have proper doors to fit it through!

Sir Ice- Man

This is what i am trying to argue over here that we are going to Spent 3-5 Billion $ on this project. We would have been much better off had we just take couple of billion out of this project and invest in some more powerful equipment. Now every body is going to come after me.

 

[epinephrine]

sorry bro but i can't keep eating this BULL over & over again. FIRSTLY if we wished for it to be such a "secretive" thing we wouldn't be running around with it to every airshow & trying to export it!

Secondly we wouldn't have been looking for a better avionics suite & weapons system for it around the whole continent of europe!

I am sorry but JF-17 like Mastan sir has been saying for the last 3 years on this forum that it is having all sort of "teething problems"! i personally believe that by choosing JF-17 pakistan has kept an elephant as a pet & doesn't have proper doors to fit it through!

well if u r so much agianst JFT then do u have a better idea??wat PAF should have done?flying decades old mirages ,A-5s,F-7s n bvrless F-16As?JFT has given us a chance to reduce our dependancy on foriegn powers.few years ago we didnt have any aircraft to carry single bvr missile now JFT is carrying atleast 2.may be 4.something is always better then nothing.its gonna take time to mature.their is a huge difference b/w F-16 A n F-16 E.so u never know wat will be the difference b/w blk1 n blk 3 JFT.
all the aircrafts fly in air shows even the raptor has done so.it doesnt make them lose their secrecy.the avionice suite of JFT in mainly chinese.

Sir Ice- Man

This is what i am trying to argue over here that we are going to Spent 3-5 Billion $ on this project. We would have been much better off had we just take couple of billion out of this project and invest in some more powerful equipment. Now every body is going to come after me.

this is the major problem with us as a nation.we never use our minds and money to do anything good.we always wish to remain dependant on others."pakki pakae khanay ka shok hay hamain".we dont even foresee the advantages of independace

 

[Safriz]

PAF attitude gives a strong expression that JF-17 is a still a half baked cookie that's why they are not willing to show it to general public.

what we are forgetting here is that thunder is half chinese and to show it off....pakistan needs chinese consent as many parts in he plane are chinese inventions which they are using or intend to use in their planes even j-20.
so they must have requested pakistan nt to reveal certain details about the plane ajd pakistan has to honour their wishes.

 

[ice_man]

well if u r so much agianst JFT then do u have a better idea??wat PAF should have done?flying decades old mirages ,A-5s,F-7s n bvrless F-16As?JFT has given us a chance to reduce our dependancy on foriegn powers.few years ago we didnt have any aircraft to carry single bvr missile now JFT is carrying atleast 2.may be 4.something is always better then nothing.its gonna take time to mature.their is a huge difference b/w F-16 A n F-16 E.so u never know wat will be the difference b/w blk1 n blk 3 JFT.
all the aircrafts fly in air shows even the raptor has done so.it doesnt make them lose their secrecy.the avionice suite of JFT in mainly chinese.

sadly you don't get it my friend after so much spending on this "PROJECT" we still have not been able to integrate the BVRs that you are talking about. our avionics suite is still as good as a mirage ROSE upgrade! the only thing truly good is the airframe which is NEWER compared to the decades old stressed out MIRAGES.

our avionics suite is chinese which is identical to our F7s. so the truth of the matter is we went around gthe world looking for someone to give us a good avionics suite but no one did hence we turned back to the chinese & accepted whatever they gave us!

to sum it SADLY JF-17 is not the best optipon by far BUT SADLY it is the only option we have due to NO RESOURCES & NO ONE WILLING TO GIVE US PLANES NOW! EUROPE won't supply us currently & even if it does it will send in a TEAM of people to keep an eye on what it gives us.

we missed a golden opportunity in 2004-2007 to order MIRAGE 2000s or JAS GRIPPEN! now we are stuck like i said earlier a white elephant!

 

[Areesh]

sadly you don't get it my friend after so much spending on this "PROJECT" we still have not been able to integrate the BVRs that you are talking about. our avionics suite is still as good as a mirage ROSE upgrade! the only thing truly good is the airframe which is NEWER compared to the decades old stressed out MIRAGES.

our avionics suite is chinese which is identical to our F7s. so the truth of the matter is we went around gthe world looking for someone to give us a good avionics suite but no one did hence we turned back to the chinese & accepted whatever they gave us!

to sum it SADLY JF-17 is not the best optipon by far BUT SADLY it is the only option we have due to NO RESOURCES & NO ONE WILLING TO GIVE US PLANES NOW! EUROPE won't supply us currently & even if it does it will send in a TEAM of people to keep an eye on what it gives us.

we missed a golden opportunity in 2004-2007 to order MIRAGE 2000s or JAS GRIPPEN! now we are stuck like i said earlier a white elephant!

Leaving all the other nonfactual things you said I just want to ask how exactly do you think BVR's aren't integrated by now?

 

[Bratva]

sadly you don't get it my friend after so much spending on this "PROJECT" we still have not been able to integrate the BVRs that you are talking about. our avionics suite is still as good as a mirage ROSE upgrade! the only thing truly good is the airframe which is NEWER compared to the decades old stressed out MIRAGES.

our avionics suite is chinese which is identical to our F7s. so the truth of the matter is we went around gthe world looking for someone to give us a good avionics suite but no one did hence we turned back to the chinese & accepted whatever they gave us!

to sum it SADLY JF-17 is not the best optipon by far BUT SADLY it is the only option we have due to NO RESOURCES & NO ONE WILLING TO GIVE US PLANES NOW! EUROPE won't supply us currently & even if it does it will send in a TEAM of people to keep an eye on what it gives us.

we missed a golden opportunity in 2004-2007 to order MIRAGE 2000s or JAS GRIPPEN! now we are stuck like i said earlier a white elephant!

Frustration should not blind one's senses. BVR integrated. Avionics which JF-17 have are found in J-10B and in J-20B. Label of Made in China on them does make a person skeptical about their capability though.

Transparency in JF-17 program is what making you and me and like of Us frustrated.

 

[ice_man]

Leaving all the other nonfactual things you said I just want to ask how exactly do you think BVR's aren't integrated by now?

well in the current age the mind believes whagt the eye sees! & currently NO ONE and NO EXCERCISE have we seen any signs of a JF-17 carrying any SD-10s have we? if you have please share with us!

stories start with my uncle,someone i know,my friend's brother's friend knows! are NOT FACTUAL information but just rumors & mean nothing!

 

[SQ8]

PAF attitude gives a strong expression that JF-17 is a still a half baked cookie that's why they are not willing to show it to general public.

Unfortunately.. its the same case of the PAF "not seen over Lahore" during 71.
People think operational prudence is reflective of poor performance.
However, I think the recent show off by the PAF of various hardware has put that perception to naught.
I just have never seen the PAF ever show a half baked cookie to the public...
Moreover.. considering that the JF-17 is still working up.. its quite possible that it flying carrying a peacetime load of 2xWVR weapons only..
Perhaps when they do start working up on the SD-10.. during the next high mark.. you may see it come in.
After all.. it was displayed at farnborough so you know it fits the machine.

Sir Ice- Man

This is what i am trying to argue over here that we are going to Spent 3-5 Billion $ on this project. We would have been much better off had we just take couple of billion out of this project and invest in some more powerful equipment. Now every body is going to come after me.

Like what?
What could we have bought in sufficient numbers with that money that would replace some 200 aircraft and be more powerful than the JF-17?

Oscar, would you be needing a hi lo hi mission profile for CAP duties?? for CAS yes but isnt CAP carried out at relatively higher altitudes to preserve more fuel..

Also, would the IAF really abandon its FOBs?? what would happen to the IAF moral if they choose to do so.. and that would definately be a tactical victory for the PAF..

No, the CAP guesstimate is made on a quick climb to stated altitude and transit to CAP sector.

The IAF may not abandon its FOB's as these have sufficient protection from airstrikes..
But may be frustrated by denying them the ability to use their facilities by harassment strikes.
Back in 71 this tactic worked somewhat and allowed the PAF some breathing room..since the generally short legs of aircraft used in that scenario required staging through FOB's..
That is not the case anymore.. Indian aircraft hold the ability(especially the Su-30s) to completely bypass existing Pakistani defences by taking a long dog leg route and attack from western angles.(although whether they will be able to do that without being detected is debatable in another topic).

 

[Bratva]

Unfortunately.. its the same case of the PAF "not seen over Lahore" during 71.
People think operational prudence is reflective of poor performance.
However, I think the recent show off by the PAF of various hardware has put that perception to naught.
I just have never seen the PAF ever show a half baked cookie to the public...
Moreover.. considering that the JF-17 is still working up.. its quite possible that it flying carrying a peacetime load of 2xWVR weapons only..
Perhaps when they do start working up on the SD-10.. during the next high mark.. you may see it come in.
After all.. it was displayed at farnborough so you know it fits the machine.



Like what?
What could we have bought in sufficient numbers with that money that would replace some 200 aircraft and be more powerful than the JF-17?

My post was ambiguous, let me put it in a clear way. When PAF F-16 pics can be shown with Fully loaded armament (AIM-120, Sniper, JDAMS, Sniper) than what's the problem with JF-17 being shown with SD-10A,LS-6,WMD-7,KG300G ? No Night Time capability is demonstrated by JF-17 so Far, it's like what? 3-4 years since it started flying?

 

[SQ8]

My post was ambiguous, let me put it in a clear way. When PAF F-16 pics can be shown with Fully loaded armament (AIM-120, Sniper, JDAMS, Sniper) than what's the problem with JF-17 being shown with SD-10A,LS-6,WMD-7,KG300G ? No Night Time capability is demonstrated by JF-17 so Far, it's like what? 3-4 years since it started flying?

But these pictures exist??

However.. if you mean that you have not seen these systems on the Pakistani JF-17's flying here then you are correct.
The weapons testing and integration(especially more advanced ones) was carried out in China by PT-06 where there is a better instrumentation range for such tests.

Take the example of the EF typhoon..
The first aircraft flew in 1994..and first operational sq started forming in 2006..
The first tranche with block 1 software only had basic A2A capabilities like AI modes on the radar and Aim-9 use.
The block 2 added the Aim-120B.. and only the block 5 brought in A2G capabilities.

So compared to that.. the JF-17 is moving much better.. and is currently in the phase of integrating all weapons on new airframes.
Again.. just the JF-17 being able to fire the SD-10 is not enough..pilots have to be trained on usage.. ground support staff have to be trained on installing it and performing checks on it...that is also a tedious process.

 

[Beast]

what we are forgetting here is that thunder is half chinese and to show it off....pakistan needs chinese consent as many parts in he plane are chinese inventions which they are using or intend to use in their planes even j-20.
so they must have requested pakistan nt to reveal certain details about the plane ajd pakistan has to honour their wishes.

Come on, JF-17 carrying a SD-10 flying around is nothing surprising and secrecy... Even the Chinese show it often on their official PLA website. We just need a photo of a operational JF-17 carrying the BVRAAM if it really has the capabilities. Something like the J-10A...

 

[ziaulislam]

1. f-16s is foreign product thast why secrey isnt an issue but with most of pakistani wepaons we dont see much pictures.
2 . pictures are available from Chinese sources

anyway if thunder pictures are released in Pakistan with those goodies, do expect a reaction in india media and parliament and a demand by IAF from the govt for more money. it has happened in past. they exaggerate small things to a great extent.

 

[Beast]

1. f-16s is foreign product thast why secrey isnt an issue but with most of pakistani wepaons we dont see much pictures.
2 . pictures are available from Chinese sources

anyway if thunder pictures are released in Pakistan with those goodies, do expect a reaction in india media and parliament and a demand by IAF from the govt for more money. it has happened in past. they exaggerate small things to a great extent.

SO far is only Pt06 in chengdu seen flying with SD-10.. But people will question it still in testing phase. The operational PAF JF-17 might not capable of BVR. It needs a photo to quash those doubt.

 

[ziaulislam]

we have heard of so many local products but rarely a photo of them are released when it comes to PAF

 

[monitor]