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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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Sharing what Sir Parvez Shamim shared on Pakdef forum, i guess i am not the only one with a source emphasizing on an AESA in block 2.......

"Brothers, there have been fresh rumors about JF-17 and its weapons. I am not sure if they are true but rumors from certain sources have proved to be true in the past.

1. All SD-10A missiles will be upgraded to SD-10B standard
2. PAF has also received some SD-10B
3. Additional SD-10B will be delivered after PLAAF receives them
4. SD-10B version has key R&D inputs from PAF
5. Block-II will receive a new radar, and all earlier versions will be upgraded with this new radar. Current radar may not be able to support SD-10B which PAF has decided to use as standard weapon.
6. New radar willmay be equipped with a rotating plate(Swash plate) Could it be an AESA similar to Sweedish Gripen NG radar
7. The new radar will be a true and completely multi-functional
8. Small Diameter Bombs are being tested by FC-1 06 for use on JF-17 currently
9. PAC Kamra is expanding and will be able to meet maximum production"

Regarding SD-10B, i am really curious about the input from PAF, we are using AIM 120C5 for over a year now.. ;)
 
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your logical reasoning is flawed.... china had billions of dollar ..no one sold them.

Ummm....not sure if you read your post before you published it. Do you not see a difference in China vs. Pak?
With Pak, they can control their tech like F 16 B 52. With China..they'll never give them their state of art tech. It's like handing your enemy your loaded gun so he can shoot you without fingerprints!
 
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Ummm....not sure if you read your post before you published it. Do you not see a difference in China vs. Pak?
With Pak, they can control their tech like F 16 B 52. With China..they'll never give them their state of art tech. It's like handing your enemy your loaded gun so he can shoot you without fingerprints!
What he was trying to say was that just because you have the 'billions' doesn't necessarily mean that you will get access to all the best technology from the west.
 
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As all you gents must know that a Sukhoi has landed at KHI. It is safe to assume that the Russians are interested in baby steps towards some relationship. I know that this one is a civilian jet but it portends good tidings for Russian-Pakistan relations. You may not get all you desire but it is time to begin working on it.
BTW Algerians bought 40+ Su-30 MKAs which are identical to Su-30 MKIs. Once they realized that, they apparently grounded them. If you desire "parity" with Indians you may want to offer Putin to take those Flankers off his hands in some kind of an exchange in which Russia does not have to pay reparation$ to mon Algerie. ....Perhaps you can subsitute them with an undisclosed number of JF-17 Thunders. Win-win-win for all three nations? Huh?
 
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I would urge you not to trust all things wiki..
There was a move to look for Russian equipment in the 90's.. mainly the Sukhoi's since the Mig-29 was not necessarily desired.
The deal was just doing the initial rounds and a PAF team checked out the Su-27S . However, the Indian lobby in Russia got wind of it and there was massive pressure put diplomatically and financially(threatening to cancel existing deals between India and Russia) which resulted in the PAF team being sent back with a firm NO.
The poles only offered their old Mig-29.. poland NEVER operated the Su-27... again.. wiki's editable content goes against it..
The Mirage 2000 fiasco is well known.. considering that the french were prepared to strip us for it(along with the kickback for the PPP govt).. the PAF high command resisted smartly.. and requested a lite M2K-5.. coming at around 25 million..
However the PPP hounds refused to budge on the pretext that this particular purchase would not land them the whipped cream that they so desired for their coffers...and so that opportunity was also lost.

the gripen was again offered in the 2003-2005 period, However.. by that time the JF-17 had flown..
and the PAF saw nothing in the Gripen C that the JF-17 was not bringing with it.
there has been a whole discussion on the merits and demerits of this decision, I would suggest you read through it if you have the time.
http://www.defence.pk/forums/jf-17-thunder/61786-arguments-choosing-thunder-over-gripen-12.html
As far as I know,
1-French knew it pretty well that they were the monopolist sellers to PAF with all other alternatives either blocked or not viable. So they were asking for a significantly higher price. The move to Sukhoi was a signal by PAF to let french know that they had "other options" opened, had the french not offered them a just price. In my openion Sukhoi was an unviable option for PAF and PAF knew it.
2-The Compitition was between Grippen C/D and F-16 rather than JFT (which was a medium tech AC by then). Even Israel had her nerves raised when Grippen offered its C/D version to PAF (Since the range of Grippen C/D allowed PAF a strategic reach till Israel). However, the infrastructure constraints and Falcon-obsession by PAF baised its choice towards F-16 (An option which was acceptable to all i.e. PAF, Israel and US).
 
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Security Industry

Sweden's 2009 arms sales shot up

March. 11, 2010 at 1:14 PM

STOCKHOLM, Sweden, March 11 (UPI) -- Sweden in 2009 sold arms worth $1.9 billion, a 7 percent increase over the previous year, a government agency said.

"Of the total defense materiel exports, 80 percent went to well-established partner countries, both within the EU and to countries like South Africa and the United States," Andreas Ekman Duse, the head of the Swedish Agency for Non-Proliferation and Export Controls, or ISP, said in a statement.

The ISP monitors and controls weapons exports. It said 2009 saw the biggest yearly growth of arms sales since it began monitoring them in 1996.

Ekman Duse said large-scale, single-product sales such as that of the Combat Vehicle 90 to the Netherlands and the Saab JAS 39 Gripen to South Africa influence the statistics.

The Gripen is a lightweight multirole fighter jet that is cheaper than the Eurofighter; Sweden, Hungary and the Czech Republic already operate the aircraft; Thailand and South Africa have ordered it.

BAE Systems of Britain has a long-standing stake in Saab and the Gripen project but is determined to sell it. Earlier this month, BAE Systems decided to sell 10 percent of its remaining 20.5 percent share.

The CV 90, a Swedish infantry fighting vehicle designed by Swedish company Haegglunds/Bofors and produced by BAE Systems Haegglunds, is being exported mainly to European nations.

The top three export destinations in 2009 were the Netherlands, with $352 million; South Africa, with $240 million; and Pakistan, with $197 million.

While more than half of all exports went to European nations, 27 percent went to what Duse called "well-established partner countries" -- the United States, Australia, South Africa, Canada, South Korea and Singapore.

Weapons exports to more questionable markets -- including Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Thailand and Bahrain -- continued in 2009, to the dismay of Swedish parliamentarians.

Lars Angstroem, a senior official with the Swedish Green Party, said Saudi Arabia should be dropped from the export list.

"Saudi Arabia seriously and systematically violates human rights as defined by the United Nations and it is unacceptable that exports have gone there," he said in a statement.

The ISP said it banned arms exports to Pakistan in 2007 but was honoring contracts signed before that year. The agency can block sales to countries at war or known to commit human rights violations but also has the power to grant exceptions for clear defense or national security reasons.

the reason for not selling offensive systems is that PK is at war.
 
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but why didn't they buy from west ? why they are still embargoed ? no doubt in the entire history that west have made most sophisticated weapons .... they could have buy from them also as they had lot of cash. the point was it is not about money alone as the gentleman put it.

Typical Indian mentality. No wonder they claim Indian will keep on buying and buying while domestic defense capacity will remain stagnant... Always thinking the best is from Europe.

China did not let the Billions goes to waste. It invested in talent, education , improving domestic facilities, incoporate dual use technology. Absorbing advance civilian technology into military. While the new breed of local talented young scientist start to bear food by producing domestic design weaponery...

The route we take need significant investment(billion) and take much longer time to bear food. But it is the best solution in the long run.

China is already into making 5th gen stealth J-20 project while Europe has none at the moment. If China just wait for the Europe to come out a 5th gen project to buy. I bet China will be badly lack behind the American and Russia.
 
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ARMED FORCES Date Posted: 11-Feb-2005

Gripen thrives but Sweden struggles


ROBERT HEWSON, Air-Launched Weapons - Linköping, Sweden


The export programme for Sweden's Gripen JAS-39 multirole fighter is expanding but the Swedish Air Force (SwAF) is grappling with the latest round of budget cuts that will substantially reduce the force and its Gripen fleet.

Manufacturer Saab Aerospace rolled out the first Gripen for the Hungarian Air Force on 25 January. It is one of five that will be delivered to the 59th Fighter Wing, Kecskemét, in March 2006.

Hungary has signed a 10-year lease-purchase deal with Sweden's Defence Materiel Administration (FMV) for 12 Gripens, based on the the JAS 39C, and a pair of two-seat variants, based on the JAS 39D. These aircraft have been rebuilt to C standard, using all-new fuselage sections mated with airframe components from existing Swedish JAS 39As.

Hungary's contract, including maintenance and logistics, runs from 2006-16. A deal to acquire AIM-120C-5 Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles from the US was announced in December 2004. Hungary is expected to issue tenders for further air-to-air and air-to-surface weapons during 2005.

A second batch of two Gripens will be delivered to Hungary by the end of 2006, with five more in 2007 and three in 2008. Build work will continue to mid-2007.

The first group of three Hungarian pilots began training to become instructor pilots on 24 January at the SwAF's Gripen Centrum facility, F7 Wing, Såtenäs.

The SwAF is still coming to terms with the latest round of forces-wide budget cuts announced in December 2004. A cut of SEK3 billion ($428 million) in the 2005 armed forces budget of SEK41 billion has to be implemented by the end of 2007.

Commander of the Swedish Air Force Major General Jan Andersson, assessing the reality affecting his forces, stated the size of the cuts and the timescale were twin shocks.

"We are already making cuts for 2005 and will continue every year into 2008, but if my volume is to be cut back then I will trade that for capability. We lose JAS 39A/Bs but we will keep the JAS 39C/Ds. Our C transition plans remain unaffected. We will get the new [reconnaissance] pod, precision- guided munitions, helmet-mounted display and IRIS-T advanced air-to-air missile." However, he also noted that "the focus is moving away from long-term planning and it's the 2010-2014 Gripen that's under threat".

These concerns are shared across Swedish industry. In the words of one senior official: "There is now very, very little money for new programmes or upgrades. There is, in fact, no money at all to upgrade Gripen or any other weapon system."

The most obvious effect has been the closure of F4 Wing, at Ostersund/Frosën, where all flying will cease by June and the base will shut completely by the end of 2005. Sweden will then have just two front-line Gripen bases and only four operational squadrons, split between F17 (Ronneby) and F21 (Lulëa). Today, all squadrons are operating the JAS 39A, apart from 1 Div (1st Sqn) at F17, which is transitioning to the JAS 39C. Next year this unit will assume the air force's rapid reaction (SWAFRAP) mission. All training operations continue at F7 Wing, Såtenäs.

In a new move to define the future of the Swedish aerospace industry, and the Gripen's place in it, a committee that brings together Saab, Ericsson, Volvo, the national space agency plus Sweden's defence and industry ministries met for the first time in January. Its aim is to support and secure high-tech products like the Gripen as national assets - and to reassure potential customers that the programme still has a growth path for the future.

Saab has delivered 158 Gripens to the SwAF. The total order book stands at 232 aircraft (204 for Sweden, 28 for South Africa) plus the leasing deals covering 28 Gripens for Hungary and the Czech Republic. The Gripen International export team is pursuing medium-term requirements in Switzerland and Thailand, plus opportunities in Eastern Europe (Bulgaria, Romania, Slovakia), the Far East (Vietnam, Malaysia) and Latin America (Mexico, Venezuela). Gripen International also cites potential business in India and Pakistan, although it is difficult to see how sales to both air forces could ever be reconciled. The long-standing Brazilian FX requirement, for which Gripen was a front-runner, has effectively been shelved and it is feared that there will be no new developments there for a year or more.

While Hungary was the first NATO customer for the Gripen it will not be the first NATO operator. That distinction falls to the Czech Republic, which is pursuing an accelerated Gripen acquisition plan driven by the urgent need to replace its sole in-service fighter type, the MiG-21. The first Czech Gripen flew on 18 October 2004 and was officially rolled out on 25 November. The 14 leased aircraft, 12 single-seat and two twin-seat, are being taken from existing Swedish production (Lots 27 and 28 of Batch 3).

The Czech Air Force would like to stand up its Gripens for the national Quick Reaction Alert mission in May and the first deliveries will occur in April/May to 211 Fighter Squadron, Casláv. They will be armed with AIM-9M Sidewinders and the Gripen's own BK 27 cannon. To date, the Czech authorities have not made any further arrangement for weapons such as the AIM-120.

The recent JAS 39C test and development programme has concentrated on clearing the export aircraft for service. This included qualifying the current SwAF avionics and systems fit to meet the contracted Czech requirement, which calls for items such as a new 'identification friend-or-foe', but does not yet include a datalink. In August 2006 the Czech aircraft will receive an Edition 2 upgrade that adds new functionality, such as an electronic warfare suite.

Work on the Gripen precision weapon fit is almost complete, with the aircraft cleared to use the Litening III laser designation pod in conjunction with GBU-10, GBU-12 and GBU-12 Paveway II laser-guided bombs (LGBs). The basic Swedish requirement is for a day-only LGB capability, while Hungary has specified a day and night capability. Furthermore, Hungary has requested clearances for all three GBUs listed above, while Sweden will only adopt the GBU-12. Hungary also plans to acquire AGM-65G/H/K Maverick air-to-surface missiles. There are not yet any contractual provisions to equip the Czech aircraft with an air-to-surface capability.

Testing continues of the final configuration for the Gripen's Cobra helmet-mounted display (HMD). After a few comfort-and-fit test flights in 2004, the oxygen mask and inner lining were redesigned. Trials of the remodelled HMD will begin in the simulator before mid-2005, leading to a first flight of the fully functional helmet in October/November. An integration contract for the IRIS-T agile air-to-air missile is hoped for soon. Two delayed, but essential, elements of the test programme are now getting back on track. These are the first flight of the SPK 39 reconnaissance pod, expected this month or in March and the long-awaited air-to-air refuelling (AAR) qualifications for the JAS 39C. A South African Air Force (SAAF) Boeing 707 tanker will deploy to Sweden for several weeks in March, undertaking 15-20 flights to clear the Gripen's AAR system and also to qualify the SAAF operators on the Gripen.
 
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