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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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Pt-06 being tested rigorously with different things (SD-10, Cruise missiles, satellite guided bombs etc) at Chengdu along with J-10B & J-20 both of the future CAF front line fighters do give an impression that FC-1 is being seriously looked into and being tested as a CAF future fighter jet also. There is no other explanation for the jet being tested so rigorously.

And here is the FC-1 with the smoke winders :)

It seems CAF is very serious in acquiring the fighter.


 
fc-1-jf-17-fire-missile-1.jpg


Has it been determined as to what kind of missiles the JF-17 is firing in the image, since the weapon is missing any front fins. ?? !!
 
^ Taimi, The Nose con area where 06 is written. Compare it with Pakistani version. Is it me that is feeling the difference, That this chinese version has flat area (more inward) and Pakistani version has some what fatter area(more outward) ?




42657115.jpg
 
^ Taimi, The Nose con area where 06 is written. Compare it with Pakistani version. Is it me that is feeling the difference, That this chinese version has flat area (more inward) and Pakistani version has some what fatter area(more outward) ?




42657115.jpg

I think sun reflection is playing trick more than anything. At first it looks like little different but a closer look will eliminate the doubt.
 
The image by Taimi. It looks like the nose Of a flanker or a MiG.

But it is just relative to the surroundings. In one image there are trees and a background. But in the other there is nothing.
 
Hi,

Sometimes---as it happens---the picture is right in front of our faces---but it does not register in our minds. At one time the F 16 was also an in-expensive low tech low end air craft----and see where it has ended up today.

Similiarly---the JF 17 will not be at the same place in 10 years from now as it was at the time of its conception---as a matter of fact---it cannot be at the same place in the next two years. It will depend on the future visionaries of the air force---what kind of vision the air chiefs---what the design engineers can come up with---and the makers of future technologies---what kind of technologies they can cram in this aircraft---.

The jf 17 is not going to remain as a cost effective small aircraft all the time----bottomline is that untill and unless it cannot grow with the needs---it will meet its untimely death.

If it's smaller size cannot be adapted to a stealthier form---then its smaller design is worthless. If a big aircraft---like the su30---can display right in your face kind of presence---using its size, radar and missile count to openly brag about its machismo----then a little bird like the jf17 will have to act silent about its disappearing act ( a stealthier design ) and need to find a way to become less visible---.

In this day and age---there is no place for the ORDINARY---there is no place for 'cheap' ---a cheap will have to find a way to compete with the best---. There is no place for that 'silent guy standing in the corner'---as there is no place for 'sleeping tigers'---the tigers who are sleeping will stay sleeping---they are not going to wake up any more.



If the F 16 had not evolved over the years---it would have disppeared---the F16 would also have disappered if it did not have its bigger brother the F15 protecting its presence and letting it grow over a period of time.

Sir, certainly it will go there and follow the evolution 'similar' to F-16 ( NOT identical). Block-2 is in making and 3 has been announced. Only thing required is patience.

And i don't think it is cheaper it is just Cost Effective .... Putting improved avionics and new weapons will increase the cost but that increase of cost will be proportionally less compared to import of these systems from West.

PAF has plan to upgrade airframe in Block 3 but we will have to wait for that till 2016 and that makes complete sense. It would be only 2010-11 when PAF would get its hand on actual data regarding RCS and other features of JFT and they came up with plans to reduce RCS and modify airframe (which according to my understanding ) will have provisions such as increasing number of hard points and enchaining take-off weight. Right now focus is on ECM capabilities and avionics.
 
fc-1-jf-17-fire-missile-1.jpg


Has it been determined as to what kind of missiles the JF-17 is firing in the image, since the weapon is missing any front fins. ?? !!

This is a big mystery..
Since the PL-5E-II which the JF-17 does carry looks like this..
PL-5E-II-AAM-Zhenguan-Studio-1S.jpg

And Ill be surprised if the fins missing is due to a camera effect.
 
This is a big mystery..
Since the PL-5E-II which the JF-17 does carry looks like this..
PL-5E-II-AAM-Zhenguan-Studio-1S.jpg

And Ill be surprised if the fins missing is due to a camera effect.

First I thought it may be one of those unguided rockets appearing as an AAM from the angle, however check out the following video from about 1.05, the weapon clearly has no fins and more over it's being fired from an SP variant.

 
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the nose look longer too.

and in the last photo the J-10 nose is only very slightly bigger than the Pt-06 one.
seems like they have upgraded the radar on the Pt-06 or any other changes
 
the nose look longer too.

and in the last photo the J-10 nose is only very slightly bigger than the Pt-06 one.
seems like they have upgraded the radar on the Pt-06 or any other changes


Not a thing..
Its just the black radome and camera angle playing mind tricks with all of you.
its the same acft..
 
it is really getting boring now :)

I know, because you claims doesn't hold their own when you have to explain how things work right? :) However, I didn't meant to disagree with what you have said, but tried to make clear that there is a general difference between a stealth fighter and a non stealth fighter like JFT, so no need to take it personal actually.
As I said, JF 17 has for sure a low RCS compared to other current PAF fighters, but not compared to modern fighters available on the market, because therefor design, materials and coatings play a major role and it lacks behind in these fields, mainly because of a very different development goal.


With the above in mind.. You both are talking about the same thing.. but with a different perspective.
The JF-17 is not designed to dominate 4.5th gen fighters.. but hold its own.

That's true and what I have said as well, but we have to distinguish between beeing a 4.5 gen fighter and a 4.5 gen fighter development!
An F16 Block 60 for example is clearly a 4.5 gen fighter with all the necessary technical capabilities, but the baseline platform was an older gen development, that's why it doesn't integrate the same ammount of modern materials, coatings or capabilities (composites, RAM, Supercruise...).
Now JF 17 offer anything a modern multi role fighter "basically" needs, but just as you pointed out as development it is not meant to be as advanced as Rafale, EF or Gripen E/F for example, because for them these modern features are prime parts of their developments, while for JF 17 these are parts of future upgrade / blocks only. The higher focus on these things makes them more advanced, but also makes their development of course more costly too. JF 17 prime goal therefor is to offer 4th to 4.5 gen capabilities, or at least the scope to upgrade it to this level, while modern fighter developments starts at that level, with an even higher future uprade potential.

The F-16's are the primary strike Acft..destined to take the fight into the enemy's airspace.. and attack targets deep within enemy territory...

...The Fc-20's...Along with having a respectable A2G deep strike capability.

I disagree here, because when we look at the A2G capabilities JF 17 and J10 will add to PAF, the F16s hardly have an advantage in the strike role anymore!
Be it SEAD with MAR 1, deep strikes with RA'AD or LS-6 there are clear advantages for the "Chinese" fighters, not to mention that JF 17 B2 and J10B will offer increased range to PAF with mid air refuelling capability. All what the F16s offer in this field are CFTs of the B52s (limited to very few fighters) + JDAM, which makes them useful in CAS roles mainly, but only in addition to the other not as a prime fighter of the strike roles anymore.

I also see J10B as the prime A2A fighter of PAF in future, but in the strike role much of it's capability is dependent on increased internal fuel or CFTs!
We must keep in mind that it has the same number of wet stations as JF 17 only and also the same size limitation at the centerline station. That means, in deep strike role with RA'AD or LS-6 it might be able to carry only the same number of weapons and fuel tanks as a JF 17, which minimises the advantage. J10 in general has more hardpoints, but several of them are limited to pods, or unguided lighter bombs only. The prime hardpoints are pretty much the same and that's why their weapon carrying and range performance in this role will be very similar.

Beyond 2015 (with the induction of J10B), my guess would be:

J10B - Air superiority and all kind of land or maritime strike attacks
JF17 B2 & 3 - air superiority, SEAD and maritime attack, escorts
JF17 B1 + F16s - air defence, CAS
 
A couple of things to note though.
The F-16 with the JDAM still has the ability to penetrate a certain section of the Indian ADGE.. and attack key targets..
The spokes of the Indian supply wheel.. Depots.. Dumps..staging area's etc
the Block-52 has the electronic survivability to go deep and hit key C4I centre's..
So I see more roles for it than just CAS.
 
Not a thing..
Its just the black radome and camera angle playing mind tricks with all of you.
its the same acft..

but PT-06 IS DIFFERENT than PT-04.
PAF blk-1 version so far carry none of these weapons that are tested on PT-06.
 
A couple of things to note though.
The F-16 with the JDAM still has the ability to penetrate a certain section of the Indian ADGE.. and attack key targets..
The spokes of the Indian supply wheel.. Depots.. Dumps..staging area's etc
the Block-52 has the electronic survivability to go deep and hit key C4I centre's..
So I see more roles for it than just CAS.

How survivable are those block 52 against these Phased array systems.

http://www.akashsam.com/images/5.jpg
http://desmond.imageshack.us/Himg90/scaled.php?server=90&filename=579u0185747615.jpg&res=landing

They are just a part of the different layers which includes both Old and new systems.
 
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