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JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

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There were reported issues in the earlier models which discouraged the PAF.. apparently though.. the one in use on the J-10B is an improved version which has impressed many here.
Interesting rumor is that J-10Bs are expected to use "Modified" AL-31 FN. Interestingly there were news earlier that Chinese Asked Russians for TVC fitted AL-31 FNs.
 
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The Americans used the bomb late because they made it late... :confused: ..from then on ..the idea of Mutually assured destruction kept it from being used. the same may apply to us... for years the US built bombers upon bombers to counter what it presumed was a massive soviet bomber threat.. not knowing that soviets had been secretly moving on to missiles as their primary delivery system.. what makes you think its any different here?


Also.. your second claim on the Chinese not using domestic engines on their single engined fighters is wholly incorrect.
They've been using domestic engines for all their 3rd gen fleet..
They are still in the R&D phase when it comes to manufacturing engines in the F-100 class..
Which is why neither they or the PAF wish to use them.

The Allied Nations had the atom bomb in design phase much before the war began... even If the managed to make it late... they never used it in Europe... they choose japan as it was isolated and had almost lost the war... now consider Japs using the bomb on US during such a situation... I guess a similar situation would figure out in case of indo-pak scenario... If Pakistan tries to become adventurous... and uses its bomb 1st... all of the sudden all the sympathy would be turned towards India instead of Pakistan and India would a a very strong reason to retaliate.(Keeping in mind that the Indian aggression evolves around destruction of military hardware and capability of Pakistan).

Lets say Combat planes... those engines are used on ground attack and interceptor planes designed to support infantry and fire rockets on infantry ground positions.
Besides being in R&D phase the quality of the manufactured product is also of a big concern here or I should say primary concern.. look at RD-93(having a poor TBO of 400hrs).. even then are are taken to reliable more than any Chinese engine which on paper looks very good while in reality pilots want to stay away from it.
 
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i dont know what acceptance of defeat you talking about i was reffering him about his attitude that they talk about their economy and start comparing with us its totally bull Sh*t to compare a 200 million people economy with 1.2 billion people economy i know what conditions are going on in pakistan but such conditions will not remain bad we will have a prosper future INSHA ALLAH

OK so would you compare Pakistans 200 million economy with UAE 30 million economy!!! Bhai have a think and re read my post again. Arguing for the sake of arguing never gets one anywhere.
WaSalam
Araz
 
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Getting a bit Cold inst it
:laugh:
nothing new regarding Blk-II for quite some days! nothing regqarding the new procurements and completion of Blk-I
Strange!
usually, everyday presented something new in development for the thunders!

the bird is getting mature now!
:)
 
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Getting a bit Cold inst it
:laugh:
nothing new regarding Blk-II for quite some days! nothing regqarding the new procurements and completion of Blk-I
Strange!
usually, everyday presented something new in development for the thunders!

the bird is getting mature now!
:)

Perhaps not everything need be told publicly..
:smokin:
 
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Getting a bit Cold inst it
:laugh:
nothing new regarding Blk-II for quite some days! nothing regqarding the new procurements and completion of Blk-I
Strange!
usually, everyday presented something new in development for the thunders!

the bird is getting mature now!
:)
Pakistan alwayz keeps its rivals in the dark.......:smokin:
 
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Perhaps not everything need be told publicly..
:smokin:

Yeah a nice excuse to eat the public funds in name of national security, you will not disclose your defense projects and no one knows where the money goes.
 
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Interesting rumor is that J-10Bs are expected to use "Modified" AL-31 FN. Interestingly there were news earlier that Chinese Asked Russians for TVC fitted AL-31 FNs.

Rumours as you say.. If Chinese is not satisfy with their own WS-10. Why bother to fit domestic engine on our own flanker?

But the plan for J-10A is to continue use Al-31FN as the new 123 AL-31FN engine order from Russia kick in. Since supply from Russia is stable and redesign current J-10A to fit domestic engine need some work which might run up the cost of J-10A.

Now J-20 progress is very well , so as next generation WS-15 that they might skip J-10B and go with J-20 and J-10A as the high low combo. With Flanker acting as long range multi-role.
 
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Yeah a nice excuse to eat the public funds in name of national security, you will not disclose your defense projects and no one knows where the money goes.

Do you think our Public money is financing all the projects , there are much more than just public money .
 
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Hi,

The reason russia sells RD93 is that it is not a game changer---the playing field stays the same---russia gets foreign exchange---china and pakistan are both happy---russia has made inroads in pakistan by selling something that is important to pakistan---but of no great significance to russia and its ally---the u s sells F16 blk52 to pakistan is not a game changer---they sell the aim 120---it is a game changer in a way that it balances the power structure---and takes a bit of a desperation factor away from pakistan.

Now if russia would sell what's that the ALF31---is that the engine on chinese su30---andJ10---to pakistan now---then it is sort of a power shift----but not from 5 years from now----. If it happens now----then you can say that russia is unhappy with india---.

The first part is correct, but then why do you overlook the same reason for the AL 31? When Russia might sell AL 31 to PAF for J10s, IAF might already have S117 engines or possibly upgraded AL 31 versions, while they offer us even to co-develop the AL 41 engine for Pak Fa FGFA. All these engines are more advanced than the old AL 31, just like the RD 33MK engine, that we get for Mig 29K is more advanced than RD 93 for JF 17.

For Russia it is as you said in the first part, a way to make money by selling China and mainly Pakistan older techs and aircrafts, while India is the only country that has complete access to all their latest techs. The fact that Russia sees India as a long term partner is obvious by the change of relation in the last years. They know India is not dependent anymore on their weapons, theirfor they need to offer more, that's why they offer us now not only customised Russian fighters like the MKI, but co-developments like Pak Fa / FGFA, MRTA, engines, helicopters...
India is the only country in the world which they can trust to such an extend, that they are willing to share their most capable techs and weapons, not even China has this advantage. Once because China has proven to not be reliable to them, but also because China is a threat to them since they share land and sea borders. Russia might not be abler to sell as many weapons and techs to India like in the past, but with the new policies they can sell more weapons and techs to other foreign countries WITH India as a partner. This is already visible by the fact how many countries shows intererst in Brahmos, wants to have a similar version of the Su 30 like India has, that Malaysia or Bangladesh wants to maintain their Russian fighters in India, because we now offer secure spare and logistical supply...
The benefit of India teaming up with Russia, instead just buying Russian stuff is way more important for their long term perspective and selling some older techs and weapons to China or Pakistan, like other countries does it as well, won't change anything in this relationship.

Wrt France, they smartly used the chance to bind 3 of the 5 BRICS countries to their side. India and Brazil were long term buyers of French weapons and techs, but the changes of Russian policies and how the west sees them, was a chance to get them closer to France as well. It isn't that long ago that Europe feard 1000s of Russian tanks and fighters would attack them, but today things are changing and after the French, it seems the Italians are the next to sell them arms.
 
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Yeah a nice excuse to eat the public funds in name of national security, you will not disclose your defense projects and no one knows where the money goes.

Unfortunately.. while this is true for departments like the special plans division.. Its not true for the AF.
A full audit is available..
but there is no point in disclosing in a press conf that software increment 1.4 is now ready ..
or that the Block-II is now flying..
The problem is controlling reactions..We do not have funds.
We cannot afford to boast and think the enemy will cower down..
No.. it will send him into panic mode and they will buy even more sophisticated equipment which you can never hope to counter in some way..

The benefit of India teaming up with Russia, instead just buying Russian stuff is way more important for their long term perspective and selling some older techs and weapons to China or Pakistan, like other countries does it as well, won't change anything in this relationship.

Exactly the point I have trying to make to certain members.
 
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Unfortunately.. while this is true for departments like the special plans division.. Its not true for the AF.
A full audit is available..
but there is no point in disclosing in a press conf that software increment 1.4 is now ready ..
or that the Block-II is now flying..
The problem is controlling reactions..We do not have funds.
We cannot afford to boast and think the enemy will cower down..
No.. it will send him into panic mode and they will buy even more sophisticated equipment which you can never hope to counter in some way..



Exactly the point I have trying to make to certain members.

Special Plans divison falls under Director Kidwai and it is hard to believe a department under Kidwai will misuse it's funds.

What's not having funds got to do with having transparency in a fighter program? JF-17 is a light aircraft, which will have minimum effect against Rafael or SU-30 or upgraded Mirages, So when will PAF will come out of cold war thinking of not disclosing things.

What JF-17 is fielding in terms of technology is already possessed by adversary, and hiding the program updates only give impression of foul play.
 
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Special Plans divison falls under Director Kidwai and it is hard to believe a department under Kidwai will misuse it's funds.

What's not having funds got to do with having transparency in a fighter program? JF-17 is a light aircraft, which will have minimum effect against Rafael or SU-30 or upgraded Mirages, So when will PAF will come out of cold war thinking of not disclosing things.

What JF-17 is fielding in terms of technology is already possessed by adversary, and hiding the program updates only give impression of foul play.

i can only hope the plane attends the oncoming farnborough air show....and all will be clear if any improvements have been made or not.
 
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i can only hope the plane attends the oncoming farnborough air show....and all will be clear if any improvements have been made or not.

wishful thinking. These improvements will only be known to commoners through third party sources like Alen Warnes articles, Or when JF-17 sold to another country.While Commoners will be told repeatedly that in the name of national security, you will not get a sneak peak. But we will tell you things when we give interviews to foreign magazines.
 
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