JF-17 Thunder Multirole Fighter [Thread 4]

[SBD-3]

I am sorry if I offended some loyal forumer but if senior and repectable pakistanis like Mastankhan and hasnain0099 who has posted thousands of post and received thousands of thanks, can screw up info about China advancement. There must be something wrong,right ???

One blind might led to more blind... People here look up to this seniors and they must have the right info.

The role of senior members is to present the information which can be backed by a good and sound source and express an unbiased opinion on issues. What me, mustan or anyone else say is not altogether a BS thing every time. Being human being or not being the first hand person we can, of course be incorrect at times, but we should present things as the come to us. Like i said it before many times, at least I don't have any "sources" and "insiders". I present what i can back up with original piece of information. Secondly regarding SU-35 news
1- The news correspondent was from Russia (Kiev I think) not from China
2- The correspondent actually borrowed the news after it was announced publicly by Alexander Fomin to news media.
A while ago i posted the (still the only publicly available IMHO) picture of C-802AKG and wondered why it wasn't integrated in JFT. And a month ago we had the news leak that PAF is integrating C-802AKG as its short range ALCM. So thinking Janes is a complete BS is highly flawed when Janes itself hire top noch military analysts as its correspondents. They don't charge you grands for BS

 

[Beast]

The role of senior members is to present the information which can be backed by a good and sound source and express an unbiased opinion on issues. What me, mustan or anyone else say is not altogether a BS thing every time. Being human being or not being the first hand person we can, of course be incorrect at times, but we should present things as the come to us. Like i said it before many times, at least I don't have any "sources" and "insiders". I present what i can back up with original piece of information. Secondly regarding SU-35 news
1- The news correspondent was from Russia (Kiev I think) not from China
2- The correspondent actually borrowed the news after it was announced publicly by Alexander Fomin to news media.
A while ago i posted the (still the only publicly available IMHO) picture of C-802AKG and wondered why it wasn't integrated in JFT. And a month ago we had the news leak that PAF is integrating C-802AKG as its short range ALCM. So thinking Janes is a complete BS is highly flawed when Janes itself hire top noch military analysts as its correspondents. They don't charge you grands for BS

As I mention Janes is good at western military development but comes to Chinese news they always depend on Russia source which is always full of bias and untrue things. If u want to know more abt other countries development and use Jane As the source, fine , go ahead but if you are telling me this source is from James abt china, please give me a break. Who is best to ask other than Chinese themselves? Take anything from Jane abt Chinese military development with a pinch of salt..

 

[Farooqi1]

I am new in this forum. I am in Houston and have some Indian acquaintances who always argue with me about JF-17 being an old technology. Engineering and science is not my background. I want to know with some proof that what generation of fighters our JF-17 fall in. And could we make it to a 4.5 or better. Please guys help me out.

 

[Donatello]

I am new in this forum. I am in Houston and have some Indian acquaintances who always argue with me about JF-17 being an old technology. Engineering and science is not my background. I want to know with some proof that what generation of fighters our JF-17 fall in. And could we make it to a 4.5 or better. Please guys help me out.

You need to get yourself some new acquaintances.

 

[Beast]

I am new in this forum. I am in Houston and have some Indian acquaintances who always argue with me about JF-17 being an old technology. Engineering and science is not my background. I want to know with some proof that what generation of fighters our JF-17 fall in. And could we make it to a 4.5 or better. Please guys help me out.

Ask yr Indian friend whether they know what is DSI, ask them is it available in their LCA. Ask them what they know abt F-35 . Before they say JF-17 is old technology.

 

[Edevelop]

I am new in this forum. I am in Houston and have some Indian acquaintances who always argue with me about JF-17 being an old technology. Engineering and science is not my background. I want to know with some proof that what generation of fighters our JF-17 fall in. And could we make it to a 4.5 or better. Please guys help me out.

Also,

Tell them that

This is our JF-17: w/ 4.5 Gen avionics.

This is their LCA: w/ 3 Gen avionics

 

[ziaulislam]

Problem is that all the new are quoted and rumoured from russian sources which are extremely bias for obvious reason.
The american sources are not trusted worthy either but i think they are not as much bias.
but agian the russians do have atleast the idea whats going on because of their involvement in chines projects at least in the early 90s.
i think the chinese used the open door in 90s and gave a big boast to their already established defence production and research and now in few field have even exceed Russia

one last thing is that people here are looking protype 6 in china a completely different aircrft from thunder here, such that any news regarding prototype 6 is considered inaccurate for thunder..this conflict does amaze me, as i still believe they are same.

 

[SBD-3]

Problem is that all the new are quoted and rumoured from russian sources which are extremely bias for obvious reason.
The american sources are not trusted worthy either but i think they are not as much bias.
but agian the russians do have atleast the idea whats going on because of their involvement in chines projects at least in the early 90s.
i think the chinese used the open door in 90s and gave a big boast to their already established defence production and research and now in few field have even exceed Russia

one last thing is that people here are looking protype 6 in china a completely different aircrft from thunder here, such that any news regarding prototype 6 is considered inaccurate for thunder..this conflict does amaze me, as i still believe they are same.

Interesting thing is that most of the published literature of Chinese Military Complex has historically been from Russia. All the books on Chinese military with me are authored by Russian Authors (I am yet to find a book authored by a Chinese, pupu's "sunset over KNAPUU" is also with me but its "text-only" kind of stuff and in chinese).
Secondly, the argument that they are radically different would have made sense if PAC had its exclusive and importantly exhaustive range components and electronics to install in JFT, which is not the case since only a certain extent in JFT archetecture is contributed by PAC." Thus i would not buy the argument of "radically different" anyways.

 

[MastanKhan]

It so sad Pakistanis really believe China is so backward.

Hi, Actually---the pakistanis are the only true judge of chinese equipment---in quality---reliability and after sales service---as we get the top best export quality equipment---. Just like israel to america---pakistan to china---.

Secondly----as we also operate some american equipment---we are also the most suited to to compare these two adversaries's equipment like no other nation.

 

[Farooqi1]

You need to get yourself some new acquaintances.

Good one. I am trying but other then this argument they seems very nice people.

 

[hotaki]

Aray senior sahibs April is midway and no news on more thunders or the third squadron.

Has Pakistan aeronautical complex ceased production after the completion of 42 units, or is it still assembling more?.

We heard that block 2 will fly in July, will that be a prototype or will there be a whole squadron?.

Is the assembly plant being increased?.

 

[Last Hope]

Aray senior sahibs April is midway and no news on more thunders or the third squadron.

Has Pakistan aeronautical complex ceased production after the completion of 42 units, or is it still assembling more?.

We heard that block 2 will fly in July, will that be a prototype or will there be a whole squadron?.

I pass by kamra village when am on holidays and from there you can see all of pac and minhas base, it has changed so much, lots of hangers/units have been built, i see where the radars are towards sanjwal factory more hardened units being built, is the assembly plant being increased?.

1) The third squadron is nearly active now, with the jets delivered to PAF base Masroor. Anything soon, within two weeks, expect a formal induction ceremony.
2) The first units, not the whole squadron yet.

 

[sancho]

Good one. I am trying but other then this argument they seems very nice people.

Then tell them that JF 17 Block 1 and 2 will be propper 4th gen fighters, with similar multi role or technical capabilities like an F16 B50/52, Mirage 2000-5s, Mig 29SMTs or Gripen C/Ds. It was developed to be a cost-effective replacement of PAFs low end fighters and for the low costs it's already exceeding the expectations.
It don't have to have the latest high techs, nor was it meant to be the best fighter in PAFs fleet, but it offers PAF a good base of capability and numbers, that is sanction prove and improves the indigenous aero industry too. All this together gives it a very good cost / capability ratio according to PAFs requirements!

Secondly, the argument that they are radically different would have made sense if PAC had its exclusive and importantly exhaustive range components and electronics to install in JFT, which is not the case since only a certain extent in JFT archetecture is contributed by PAC." Thus i would not buy the argument of "radically different" anyways.

True, the initial aims might have been to add different weapons and techs, but currently and most likely for cost-efficiency it ended up way more common to what China had in mind. Will be interesting to see what new techs with Pakistani origin the Block 2 will get and if the ammount of differences will change then a bit more.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Technically it is a small, very well equipped multi-purpose fighter aircraft. It all depends upon the final electronics and bvr missile package that this aircraft will come out with.

You have to take the size of this aircraft into account as well as the armament that it will carry---and also look at what this aircraft was designed to replace---the A5's---they are already gone---the next in line are the Mirage 3 / 5 and then the F7PG's---.

You also have to understand that just by default----that is---the timing of its production date---this aircraft will automatically have whatever is the best in the chinese weapons system and electronics packages. I mean to say---if you are designing a new car in this competitive market---you will not put a carburator in it---you will have the most advanced fuel injection system in it.

You have to understand----it is not for pakistan's sake---it is for china's sake----all the eyes are on china---even though pakistan is the end user---it is china's name and number that is at stake---it is china's product---. China is not going to put forward anything at this time that will be ordinary----neither in the form of radar or in the form of WVR or BVR missiles---.

The thing is---to justify its status---you have to give it enough time to develop and mature----you have to give it time to season---this aircraft had a major set-back in the recent past---when the french electronics and weapons package was cancelled in the recent past.

If you want to rush to judgement of making it what it is not----you will be utterly disappointed when the final product is delivered.

It better to PROMISE LESS AND DELIVER MORE. My pakistani colleagues---you have made it a habbit of delivering less---.

 

[Beast]

Hi,

Technically it is a small, very well equipped multi-purpose fighter aircraft. It all depends upon the final electronics and bvr missile package that this aircraft will come out with.

You have to take the size of this aircraft into account as well as the armament that it will carry---and also look at what this aircraft was designed to replace---the A5's---they are already gone---the next in line are the Mirage 3 / 5 and then the F7PG's---.

You also have to understand that just by default----that is---the timing of its production date---this aircraft will automatically have whatever is the best in the chinese weapons system and electronics packages. I mean to say---if you are designing a new car in this competitive market---you will not put a carburator in it---you will have the most advanced fuel injection system in it.

You have to understand----it is not for pakistan's sake---it is for china's sake----all the eyes are on china---even though pakistan is the end user---it is china's name and number that is at stake---it is china's product---. China is not going to put forward anything at this time that will be ordinary----neither in the form of radar or in the form of WVR or BVR missiles---.

The thing is---to justify its status---you have to give it enough time to develop and mature----you have to give it time to season---this aircraft had a major set-back in the recent past---when the french electronics and weapons package was cancelled in the recent past.

If you want to rush to judgement of making it what it is not----you will be utterly disappointed when the final product is delivered.

It better to PROMISE LESS AND DELIVER MORE. My pakistani colleagues---you have made it a habbit of delivering less---.

Hardly... JF-17 is not the only Chinese fighter jet it can export.. Presently, all military industries of china top priority is to fulfil domestic order as PLA tri service is well funded. They have the abilities to go for what is best available for them unlike 10 years ago. Any export is a bonus but meeting the demand of PLA is the important target.